General / Off-Topic James Kirk(land) & The Final Frontier

... is not Space.
It is of course, Death.

There is a convergence of science on the issue of life extension. This isn't the same as Death reversal, more like postponement. But there's a concept arising in longevity circles that sounds familiar to us spaceship junkies: "Escape Velocity".

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This is a mathemathical concept, but it isn't hard:

Every year that passes, our tech allows us to extend our lives longer by a bit more on average. When that bit becomes bigger than 1 year, the continued advances will pile up faster than people can die. Theoretically this means we never die. At least those who can access and afford that technology will never die.

Of course, this is merely a mathemathical abstraction. It's just a graph function, and it isn't grounded in the real world.

Kurzweil predicts that longevity escape velocity will be reached before humanity will realize it.[7] According to him, as of 2018, it will be reached in 10-12 years.[8]
Who's this guy, Kurzweil? He's one of the most interesting people alive today, IMHO. Ray Kurzweil appeared on TV to demonstrate a piano piece, composed by a computer. No big deal right? Well that was in 1968. And he'd written the program himself, as a teenager.
Well great- but how well does he predict stuff then?

Of the 147 predictions that Kurzweil has made since the 1990's, fully 115 of them have turned out to be correct, and another 12 have turned out to be "essentially correct" (off by a year or two), giving his predictions a stunning 86% accuracy rate.

I'm no Ray Kurzweil, but even I can smell the changes coming.

If we want to really understand how things are likely to go within say the next 20 years, we'd probably be shocked if the things being researched now actually pan out. Most folks haven't got the time to dig into this material, as it's advanced science often hidden behind paywalls, and it's written in language that cannot be understood easily by laymen. Media reports generally misunderstand it. But let's look at the work of one guy.

This is Captain James Kirk.
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The fictional captain of the starship Enterprise is well known to all on this forum, of all places surely. The actor is 90 years old, still active and likely to outlive some of us at the rate he's going.
He's just a mneumonic aid to the Mayo Clinic man, a Doctor James Kirkland. And a nod to the thread title.

KirkLAND is a Gerontologist.
That is he studies the illnesses and progress of the elderly. It used to be the most depressing thing to do in Medicine, maybe narowly beat out by Paediatric Oncology, but the last thing anybody I knew wanted to study in school. Why would anybody want to tackle the most hopeless thing, ageing and death? Isn't that inevitable? We'll look at his work in a second, but let's start with another scientist first.

This is Dr. Judi Campisi.
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She works at a place called the Buck Institute.
She works on understanding and possibly disrupting a type of cell known as senescent cells, which appear to be a major component of the biology of ageing. It's tricky to even identify these cells. They stain bluish on microscopy, and have enlarged nuclei and fused mitochondria. Nobody paid them any attention for decades.
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Dr Campisi's lab first determined that senescent cells are actually doing stuff, and are not just paralyzed zombie cells. It is not often that we credit a female scientist with groundbreaking science, so this lady ought to be recognised.
She's one of the scientists behind Unity biotech.
Unity's main idea is to oppose the secreting activity of senescent cells. As we age, the secretion makes more cells turn senescent. The hypothesis is that we clear these cells at a declining rate over time. At some point, enough of them appear, and they set off a cascade of senescence, causing catastrophic loss of homeostasis, and we get old.

In order to make the most money, they wanted drugs that work on specific targets so they have a wide product range.
Hence, they look for a "joint" drug, an "eye" drug etc.
...Unity announced that its lead drug candidate had failed to beat a placebo in reducing joint pain and stiffness, according to interim results from a trial of patients with osteoarthritis of the knee. The company’s stock plunged more than 60% on the news, nearly one-third of Unity staff were laid off, and its experimental drug UBX0101 — the first novel ‘senolytic’ agent ever to enter clinical testing — was swiftly abandoned.

The senescent cells don't work like that. They talk to the whole body by secretion that circulates like hormones. You therefore cannot "deage the left knee" by injecting it. Sure the drug failed, but the implication is this: It's going to likely be deageing the WHOLE human body at once. Bad for sales, good for us.

Ok, let's look at Kirkland's work: He has 200 papers, so let's just do one
Here, we present a novel senescent cell transplantation model involving injection of small numbers of senescent or nonsenescent cells from the ear cartilage of luciferase-expressing mice into the knee joint area of wild-type mice. By using bioluminescence and 18FDG PET imaging, we could track the injected cells in vivo for more than 10 days. Transplanting senescent cells into the knee region caused leg pain, impaired mobility, and radiographic and histological changes suggestive of OA.
Kirkland's group took senescent cells from the ear cartillage of an old mouse, and another whole healthy young mouse. They injected a young knee joint with the cells. A few days later, the joint developed arthritis.
Here's the kicker: mice don't get osteoarthritis. They had basically uncovered a mechanism that switches it on, that is connected to ageing. NOT wear and tear, as they lied to us in Med School. Senescent cell accumulation.
Here, we provide evidence that accumulation of senescent cells in and around previously healthy joints can actually cause an OA-like arthropathy in mice. This both provides a new model of OA and implies that clearing senescent cells with senolytics or interfering with their pro-inflammatory SASP could be a disease-modifying therapeutic option.

So now we can understand better what Judi Campisi and Unity was trying to do. Maybe they should have tried it in Kirkland's mouse.
In any case, senolytics is now a hot young field in Medicine. Senescent cells everywhere in our organs seem to be at least partly responsible for every chronic disease of ageing known to man.

Table 1 Selected biotech companies focused on senolytics​

From: Send in the senolytics

Company (year founded)Business focus/technology
1E Therapeutics (2020)Antisense oligonucleotide–based senolytics
Atropos Therapeutics (2018)Targeting transition between quiescence and senescence (senescence after growth arrest, or SAGA)
Cleara Biotech (2018)Targeting FOXO4 to release proapoptotic p53
Deciduous Therapeutics (2018)Activating immune cells to clear senescent cells
Dialectic Therapeutics (2018)Systemic delivery of senolytic agents using proteolysis-targeting chimeras (PROTACs)
Dorian Therapeutics (2018)Targeting USP16, a deubiquitination enzyme, to reverse senescence
Eternans (2017)FOXO4-binding peptide
FoxBio (2018)Targeting p53/FOXO4 prosurvival pathways in senescent cells
Genome Protection (2018)Stimulating innate immunity to eradicate genome-compromised cells
Geras Bio (2020)SASP inhibitors
Insilico Medicine/Taisho (2020)AI target identification and generation/validation
NRTK Biosciences (2020)Synthetic optimization of approved drugs and supplements
Numeric Biotech (2017)Selective targeting of FOXO4-p53
Oisín Biotechnologies (2014)Gene therapy with caspase-9 activated in p16-positive cells
Oncosence (2019)Monoclonal antibodies targeting tumor cells after inducing them to senescence
OneSkin (2016)Peptide that modulates senescence-related signaling pathways and enhances DNA repair
Recursion Pharma (2013)AI drug discovery platform
Rejuversen (2020)Antibody against PD-L2 that promotes immune-mediated clearance of senescent cancer cells
Rubedo Life Sciences (2018)Small-molecule senolytics
Senisca (2020)Antisense oligonucleotides against splicing factors
Senolytic Therapeutics (2017)Senolytic and senomorphic drugs to treat fibrosis
SIWA Therapeutics (2006)Antibody against glycation surface molecule
Unity Biotechnology (2011)Targeting various senescence-related proteins (Bcl-xL)

There are a pile of approaches all with cumulatively billions behind them. People are shortsightedly looking to "get rich" primarily, but the implications of this research is profound. Arthritis is by no means the only thing attributed to senescent cells. They may underlie virtually every aspect of aging, including artherosclerotic disease, dementia, kidney failure, cataracts, muscle loss, infertility, diabetes, etc etc.
( Extra points if you noticed Dorian Theraputics. That's a Dorian Grey reference)

Kirkland's lab is at the forefront of the efforts:
Dr. Kirkland’s laboratory published the first article about agents that clear senescent cells - senolytic drugs. Dr. Kirkland demonstrated that senolytic agents enhance healthspan and delay, prevent, or alleviate multiple age-related disorders and chronic diseases in mouse models. He published the first clinical trials of senolytic drugs and is currently conducting multiple clinical trials of senolytics. He has more than 200 publications and holds over 20 patents
Kirkland worked out why it is these senescent cells don't just die on their own. That means, he figured out the biochemistry of how to bypass that, and kill them.

At the moment, a bunch of his drug trials are in Phase 2. Some of the senolytic substances are very benign common substances found in food. Like Grape Seed Extract. Or Strawberries.
The first drug combination known to succeed was the DQ combo:
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Dasatinib and Quercetin. :) 🍨

Here's the first trial in Humans:
“Hit-and-run” treatment with senolytics, which in the case of D + Q have elimination half-lives <11 h, significantly decreases senescent cell burden in humans.
The term "Hit and run" just means we only treat with one or two doses for a day. Short term treatment, that can be repeated say monthly. Low toxicity, easy to do. Cheap.

Grape Seed Extract showed the ability to clock out 90% of senescent cells selectively, leaving the rest intact, in a Petri dish. Fantastic non toxic stuff that anybody can make with a bunch of grapes, brandy and a stove. Not that I'm proposing you do that. We might need a bit more than 10 percent of these cells- they are doing a lot of things that we might need. Also assuming that they are all the same is oversimplifying the truth. But that has not stopped scientists who really are convinced this is the path:
In 2017, a team led by Peter de Keizer, a researcher specializing on aging at University Medical Center Utrecht in the Netherlands, described a cell-permeable peptide comprising part of FOXO4 that could disrupt this process12. By freeing p53 to exit the nucleus and engage apoptotic pathways in the cytoplasm of senescent cells, the therapy, which incorporated right-handed amino acids for added potency, helped counteract frailty, hair loss and renal dysfunction in mice.

It was the first intentionally designed senolytic agent — and it attracted a lot of attention. One self-experimenter even started injecting himself with de Keizer’s peptide and chronicling his experiences online.

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3 days ago this story appeared in STAT news feed:

Here's the relevant chunk from the actual journal publication:
  • Activation of invariant natural killer T cells eliminated senescent cells in vivo
  • Removal of senescent preadipocytes improves glucose control in obese mice
  • Removal of senescent cells decreased lung fibrosis and improved survival
  • Human iNKT cells were preferentially cytotoxic to senescent lung fibroblasts

Basically, the natural immune mechanism by which our Natural Killer cells remove senescent cells has been elucidated. If the mechanism can be adjusted in humans, we don't have to worry about targeting the right cells, the immune system has that covered. Invariant NK cells cruise the bloodstream, and they get activated by a lipid substance called ɑ-galactosylceramide, if it is attached to CD-1d. CD-1d is a protein expressed by senescent cells. This is a specific targeting system. Give an injection of ɑ-gal-cer, and the NK cells just home in and take out the senescent cells. And only those.

Ok, so this is just looking at ONE anti-ageing approach, out of many. The volume of research is staggering. Even specialized scientists in the field itself cannot keep up. But we can be certain of this: if the research proves to work in humans, medical textbooks are going to become museum artifacts, and we are going to live long enough to actually read some of the research papers.
 
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Little bit more on the de Keizer peptide. How does it work?

Normal cells have a life span. At the end, they die. By self destruction. A protein named p53 sends that message from the nucleus to the cytoplasm.
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p53 at work.

Senescent cells however do not do this. Instead, p53 is disabled by another protein gummed onto it named FOXO4. Like a clingy girlfriend who won't let you go out anymore, FOXO4 stops p53 from getting to work.

The de Keizer peptide breaks up that band like Yoko Ono. Once p53 splits off, it can get to the cytoplasm, and start the self destruct cycle.
Since FOXO4 is only misbehaving in senescent cells, the peptide has essentially zero other effect. It's a homing torpedo, and the protective mechanism is bypassed very selectively.
 
"They were so focused on the question if they could, they forgot to ask if they should"

We've been asking ever since we developed self-awareness.

I'm not terribly optimistic about the odds of senescence being solved, or that solution becoming widely available, soon enough to really help me, but no matter which way I consider the issue, the downsides of biological immortality pale in comparison to the downsides of my existence having an expiration date. Likewise, if I had it in my power to grant immortality to others who desired it, I'd consider refusing to do so tantamount to murder. Better to have the power, the choice, and deal with the consequences, no matter how terrible, than back ourselves into a corner that, as far as anyone can tell, has always ended in oblivion. Life is hope and death is final defeat...no one's world survives their end and every lost perspective is a tragedy literally beyond comprehension.

I can imagine some pretty terrible scenarios involving immortal tyrants, Malthusian catastrophes, or countless other problems that could arise from the loss of 'natural' attrition...and the infinitesimally small hope of being able to actually get ahead in any rat race implies is still more than any sapient being on this planet has ever had real reason to expect (though many have imagined other possibilities, some very appealing, without any evidence to support them). Thus far we've all been doomed to die, and for everything we've touched or influenced to eventually follow. Negligible senescence would buy more time, more chances, either for a more permanent solution, or for a change of opinion.

So, my answer to any question of 'should' is a self-evident 'yes'. Of course, I'd strive to avoid the worst case scenarios, but even if I thought they were inevitable, it wouldn't dissuade me from pursuing more life. I mean what else is there?
 
We've been asking ever since we developed self-awareness.

I'm not terribly optimistic about the odds of senescence being solved, or that solution becoming widely available, soon enough to really help me, but no matter which way I consider the issue, the downsides of biological immortality pale in comparison to the downsides of my existence having an expiration date. Likewise, if I had it in my power to grant immortality to others who desired it, I'd consider refusing to do so tantamount to murder. Better to have the power, the choice, and deal with the consequences, no matter how terrible, than back ourselves into a corner that, as far as anyone can tell, has always ended in oblivion. Life is hope and death is final defeat...no one's world survives their end and every lost perspective is a tragedy literally beyond comprehension.

I can imagine some pretty terrible scenarios involving immortal tyrants, Malthusian catastrophes, or countless other problems that could arise from the loss of 'natural' attrition...and the infinitesimally small hope of being able to actually get ahead in any rat race implies is still more than any sapient being on this planet has ever had real reason to expect (though many have imagined other possibilities, some very appealing, without any evidence to support them). Thus far we've all been doomed to die, and for everything we've touched or influenced to eventually follow. Negligible senescence would buy more time, more chances, either for a more permanent solution, or for a change of opinion.

So, my answer to any question of 'should' is a self-evident 'yes'. Of course, I'd strive to avoid the worst case scenarios, but even if I thought they were inevitable, it wouldn't dissuade me from pursuing more life. I mean what else is there?
I kinda disagree.
Bar the simple problems like needing a new planet to expand to every decade and a half, the main reason I consider the whole immortality thing a bad idea is... well, the death gives life meaning. Death is why the life is worth living.
If you want to demo it, turn on immortality and infinite resources in any game. After a brief moment of fun it invariably becomes boring and pointless to play such a game.

Longer life spans, yes. I guess I could come up with things to do and experience for another hundred years or so, but even that is questionable because our brains aren't actually evolved for that and although so far we merely doubled the biological life span we were "built for", we are already experiencing psychological strain beyond our understanding.

If you'd like to know what a world led by selfish psychologically underdeveloped long-lived individuals would look like, Greek mythology is a great example. :LOL:
There is no "strife to avoid worst case scenarios". Our future would consist mainly of those.
 
If you'd like to know what a world led by selfish psychologically underdeveloped long-lived individuals would look like, Greek mythology is a great example. :LOL:
There is no "strife to avoid worst case scenarios". Our future would consist mainly of those.

Yes, a good insight.

But possibly inaccurate. Consider the personality development from 4 to 14 (+10)years. From 14 to 34. (+20) From 34 to 64. (+30)

If the brain remains intact and healthy, what might happen from 64 to 104? (+40) We don't know, because it has never happened.

Improvement is derived by reducing or pruning connections, a completely unintuitive method. Because the system is a neural net, efficiently moving to correct outputs is primarily driven by removing dead-end pathways. So experienced musicians/judokas/pilots become much better over time as they practise.

Because we are starting off with pathways through multiple neuronal contacts carrying variable voltages per contact per cell, for a billion cells, in the beginning brains can't figure anything out. If you give teenagers the opportunity to play Russian roulette or not, they have to think longer than an adult before rejecting the hazard.

We have not reached close to full brain entrainment potential simply because of mortality.
 
well, the death gives life meaning. Death is why the life is worth living.

I have the opposite view. Life is what gives life meaning and death is waiting to strip that away.

Life is worth living because it gives me another shot to see another day and to help those I value do the same.

If you want to demo it, turn on immortality and infinite resources in any game. After a brief moment of fun it invariably becomes boring and pointless to play such a game.

I'm not talking about a game. I'm talking about existence. Life is an inherently pointless endevor we're all gifted with and the only way I can see to give it meaning is by forestalling it's end indefinitely. Games are potentially pleasant distractions that don't prevent me from seeking out others if they end. Existence on the other hand, well, that's sorta the minimum prerequisite for any and every potential aspiration.

In a multiverse of potentially infinite universes, each potentially infinite itself, there will be much to do, and even if I somehow do it all, infinite boredom is still something.

Longer life spans, yes. I guess I could come up with things to do and experience for another hundred years or so, but even that is questionable because our brains aren't actually evolved for that and although so far we merely doubled the biological life span we were "built for", we are already experiencing psychological strain beyond our understanding.

We weren't 'built' for anything. Our limitations are simply there because we haven't yet needed more to continue to exist, as a species. We have no preset expiration date, just a set of mechanisms that eventually, invariably, fail because better ones were never selected for. Same applies to our neurology.

Many of the same mechanisms that could extend life could also improve our neurological hardware. Indeed, I expect progress in that area to outpace the march toward biological immortality. And if I can exist long enough, I'm not going to stay human forever...growing beyond those constrains is implied.

Of course, if someone chooses to opt out, I'm not going to stop them. But, if they try to opt me out, against my will, I will react the same way as I would toward any other existential threat...annihilate it, if possible, or avoid it as long as it takes to turn the tables, if necessary...or die trying.

If you'd like to know what a world led by selfish psychologically underdeveloped long-lived individuals would look like, Greek mythology is a great example. :LOL:
There is no "strife to avoid worst case scenarios". Our future would consist mainly of those.

This is worse than a wold being led by selfish psychologically underdeveloped short-lived individuals, who are inevitably going to be replaced by more of the same?

A crappy world I'm not around to experience is infinitely worse than a crappy one that I can (and will eventually be able to walk away from, if I can exist long enough). A world that looks like a mythological Greek tragedy, where I have a chance to survive and eventually escape, sounds like a paradise, relative to anything I can imagine that's eventually abrogated by the death of myself or those I care about.
 
Found the blog run by Darren Moore, self experimenter with the de Keizer peptide.

It's extremely amateur hour. No baseline bloods, no physical exam, no ekg/echo, no renal function assessment. Making up variable doses. Throwing in other drugs.
If he were my intern, I'd fail him. There's no way to assess if his internal organs are changing, or in what direction. No way to look at if excretion of the peptide is affecting liver or kidneys.

But he'll help you buy some! Oh, and his hair is growing back.

De Keizer himself says current formulation is the 3rd iteration, and is unfit for use as a human drug still. He's working on a 4th version, which is a year or 2 away, focusing on increasing specificity so as not to bump off any healthy cells.
Research in progress in the Nederlands.

He has more details on senescent cell subtypes and their variable chemistry.
Here's the interview.
 
Extending peoples lives significantly would fundamentally alter society.

I have seen it stated that even if you could stop aging, the average lifespan would only be in the 600 year range, because of the risk of death by various incidents eg disease, famine, accident, war etc

Consequently i think society would become far more risk averse than today. Instead of living for the moment, humans would become paranoid of all manner of things.

The affect on culture would be profound as there would be people whose views were moulded centuries ago. Would these peoples views change through time, or would they stay stuck in their preconceptions from their teenage and early adult years. I always like to therefore imagine a world with people from the 14th Century AD being alive today.
They would have had a profound influence on the relationship between science and religion. Would they treat technology as magic or just adapt to it over time as we have done.

Birth rate would probably collapse as women in particular would probably not feel the imperitive to have children.We have already seen how people are marrying later and women having children later in life due to living longer and also now being engaged in the workplace more.

Talking of work, currently people retire at a certain age and then generally die within the next 15-20 years. If people lived for centuries we would need to work for centuries and would probably look to save up assets to take a couple of years off every century or so from work to live a little. Of course for those on lower incomes this would not be possible so some would need to work their entire miserable existence.
 
Other than opposing cell senescence, there are other threads under aggressive development.

Thymus Regeneration Study TRIIM trial.
Jeff Fahey tried to restore function of Thymus gland tissue in a few men with a drug cocktail.
Immunological measures improved in the treated men, and epigenetic age regressed by 1.5 years after 1 year of treatment
Second trial underway.

Overlap:
Fixing the thymus may increase circulating NK invariant cells, the ones that kill off senescent cells.

CD38 inhibitor trials
CD38 inhibitor, 78c, reverses age-related NAD+ decline and improves several physiological and metabolic parameters of aging, including glucose tolerance, muscle function, exercise capacity, and cardiac function in mouse models of natural and accelerated aging

Overlap:
CD38 ecto enzyme is found on M1 macrophages, another immune system component.
 
Principal author Dr. Laura Niedernhofer just published a paper, closing in on specific senescent cell targets in ageing:


She's pinning it on immune system senescence, as a general whole-body effect.

However Kirkland's mouse joint experiment seems to also support other cell types being to blame, and having effects locally as well as globally. Additionally, failure of Invariant NK cells to clear senescence has already been identified, we just didn't know what cells they need to assassinate exactly.

Nevertheless Katcher's line of research(University of Maryland) into plasma replacement would seem to support the hypothesis that chemical messengers of ageing from whatever source are mediating the phenomenon of ageing, and can be disrupted by the simple brute force method of taking out the plasma, and putting in salt water. Or some proprietary thing literally named "Elixir".

recent study that has not been peer-reviewed, signed notably by Harold Katcher and Steve Horvath, details a procedure of reverse aging using Elixir that is wholly derived from plasma. Young rat plasma was administered to 2-year-old rats and their physiological indicators during the test had almost become those of 6-month-old rats.
.

Since it is the removal of SASP from the plasma that is doing the magic, I have little to zero interest in whatever "Elixir" might be, since it is probably doing doodleysquat.


Dr. Harold Katcher is in a race with Dr Irina Conboy at UC Berkeley.

...and years of clinical trials were dedicated to using young blood or young blood products,” said campus professor of bioengineering and co-author Irina Conboy. “Those were without success.”

The team plans to continue researching the impacts of plasma exchanges on aging, and is working on starting clinical trials in humans.
 
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