Love and hate

Fenwe

F
robbyp said:
Is that the sum total of your argument? No reasoned explanation why I, and other who on here have posted that same opinion, are wrong?
Click to expand...
You can gather mats while you play the game boss. Engineering mats can be gathered during most of the normal game play.

It's only a 'grind' if you choose to speed up that process. At that point it is a choice that you the player are making. There isn't anything wrong with that, but it is a choice.
 

Northpin

Northpin
XavierMariel said:
Hello commanders!

In 2019, I installed the Elite Dangerous game. Initially, I was in the mood for active play in PvE and PvP, especially after video fights between live players. At first I was very optimistic and thought that everything would be fine. However, during my short game, I accumulated a lot of negativity towards this game, which ultimately led to its deletion.
Yes, I returned to the game, to those few good things, the moments in the game that could still hold me back, but in the end I gave it up again. Thus, I had a conflicting opinion about the game. On the one hand, I really like her, but on the other, it confuses and angers me, which spoils the gameplay and nullifies all the good things that she has ...

Let's start with the good. The huge scale of the game. You have been allocated a whole galaxy that you can study even for the rest of your life. Beautiful landscapes of star systems with their planets and satellites against the background of a huge starry sky, which changes depending on the current position of your ship on the star map. And the views from the surface of the planets and from the inside of the asteroid rings are also mesmerizing. All this is due to the system of generating stars and planets.
Ships and their control. There are many different ships in the game with the possibility of customization. Each of them is unique in flight control. This is due to the good flight mechanics in the game. This is especially felt in battles, in which the very essence of ship control is revealed. Now imagine the intense battles of spaceships against the backdrop of stars, planets, asteroids and rings of gas giants. You don't even need to imagine it, it's all on YouTube. It is enough to write in search of Elite Dangerous PvP. The conclusion involuntarily suggests itself that Elite Dangerous is a game about controlling a ship in a large and endless space. That's why I bought this game. I will ask you to remember this.

But what did I get? And now about the bad. Yes! It's GRIND!
Grind kills the whole game. Grind I'm tired and can't play anymore. Grind spoils the mood and tires. Why, in a game with well-developed spaceship flight mechanics, should I spend most of my time grinding and farming in order to buy a ship, install modules on it and upgrade it? As an analogy, take the example of open-world racing simulators. Have you ever driven your car around locations to collect materials needed to upgrade your engine or suspension? No! Do you even need materials to improve your car? No! To upgrade a car or buy a new one, you had to participate in races in which you earned money that went to upgrades. The game has rewarded you for being the first in the race, which is the core of the gameplay. As I said above, Elite Dangerous is a game about controlling a spaceship in a large and infinite space, which means that the game should reward you for good control of your spaceship. And where to implement it? To arrange races in planetary canyons, in the rings of gas giants, in asteroid belts and around orbital structures on the principle of overcoming checkpoints and pay credits for this? Perhaps. Hosting combat tournaments with bots or live players with good credit payouts? That would be good. Encourage PvP activity? It would be cool! But where is all this ?! Where is the balance between different types of earnings? Why can't I make a decent living as a bounty hunter, mercenary or pirate? There is more risk here than just transporting goods. Why are you forcing me to constantly collect materials to improve modules? Why can't I just pay for the improvements with credits that I could earn as a mercenary, cop, bounty hunter, pirate, smuggler ?! Okay, the materials can be left for ammunition fusion and module repair. You can also leave it to the engineers for the first access, but then why torture the players. The engineer opened it once, opened the access and stopped. Then you simply upgrade modules for credits. Why not create a chain of small story missions for each engineer, during which materials were obtained, access to new improvements was opened, credits were earned and the player was introduced to the game mechanics? Engineers are key characters. And all this can be combined for the final battle with the thargoid ... Well, then on to free swimming. Why not? It would be more interesting and enjoyable. And when all the engineers are open, you just upgrade your ship for credits. Why is the rescue mechanic dead? You have come up with so many roles, but in essence they are all rudimentary. Grind is not gameplay. Grind is what kills the gameplay.
Games are needed to distract and entertain the user from the routine of everyday work. Elite Dangerous could do well with this, it has enormous potential, which is drowning in the ocean called "GRIND".

Commanders think about it! Like you, I really like this game, but the problems associated with grinding, farming, and imbalance in earnings can no longer be ignored.
With the release of Odyssey, the gameplay issues have grown even more. Eventually, there will be more people who might get bored with all of this, and as a result, online will fall. And this will finally kill the game.
Click to expand...

Oh, look. A grind thread.
How did i missed it...

Guess it's the time for the: I want it all and I want it now! moment

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE
 

Fenwe

F
Jaffz said:
Still wrong
Click to expand...
You can gather mats while you play the game boss. Engineering mats can be gathered during most of the normal game play.

It's only a 'grind' if you choose to speed up that process. At that point it is a choice that you the player are making. There isn't anything wrong with that, but it is a choice.
 

howardtay

H
I have also been playing since the beginning and I agree with the op, the grind needs to be reduced i.e mining materials in a 700t cutter shouldn't take 4 hours to fill the hold, but maybe an hour would be o.k, more Emmision sources that contain more of the materials you may require without having to visit Dav's Hope, or better still stations that stock the items so that you can purchase them, I currently have 32 billion credits but I can only buy ships and ship related items, I have all the ships i need, Diamondback, Python, Anaconda and 3 Cutters all fully engineered so I don't need anymore ships. Tried Fleet Carriers 6 times, but the 15 minute countdown time to launch, I want to be able to traverse the galaxy without having 15 minutes waits everytime I want to jump further in my journey, I still play the game but all I do now is combat, combat and combat and that is now becoming boring, it is still the best game out there but it needs to be refashioned to attract more new players and to keep existing players.
 

lefty1117

L
robbyp said:
I've been missing these threads, its just like good old days.

Its only grind if you force it to be, having to have that shiny engineered X right now. If you just play the game, do a bit here and there, you'll enjoy it more.
Click to expand...
LMAO the good old days
 

Misty_Dark

Misty_Dark
XavierMariel said:
Hello commanders!

In 2019, I installed the Elite Dangerous game. Initially, I was in the mood for active play in PvE and PvP, especially after video fights between live players. At first I was very optimistic and thought that everything would be fine. However, during my short game, I accumulated a lot of negativity towards this game, which ultimately led to its deletion.
Yes, I returned to the game, to those few good things, the moments in the game that could still hold me back, but in the end I gave it up again. Thus, I had a conflicting opinion about the game. On the one hand, I really like her, but on the other, it confuses and angers me, which spoils the gameplay and nullifies all the good things that she has ...

Let's start with the good. The huge scale of the game. You have been allocated a whole galaxy that you can study even for the rest of your life. Beautiful landscapes of star systems with their planets and satellites against the background of a huge starry sky, which changes depending on the current position of your ship on the star map. And the views from the surface of the planets and from the inside of the asteroid rings are also mesmerizing. All this is due to the system of generating stars and planets.
Ships and their control. There are many different ships in the game with the possibility of customization. Each of them is unique in flight control. This is due to the good flight mechanics in the game. This is especially felt in battles, in which the very essence of ship control is revealed. Now imagine the intense battles of spaceships against the backdrop of stars, planets, asteroids and rings of gas giants. You don't even need to imagine it, it's all on YouTube. It is enough to write in search of Elite Dangerous PvP. The conclusion involuntarily suggests itself that Elite Dangerous is a game about controlling a ship in a large and endless space. That's why I bought this game. I will ask you to remember this.

But what did I get? And now about the bad. Yes! It's GRIND!
Grind kills the whole game. Grind I'm tired and can't play anymore. Grind spoils the mood and tires. Why, in a game with well-developed spaceship flight mechanics, should I spend most of my time grinding and farming in order to buy a ship, install modules on it and upgrade it? As an analogy, take the example of open-world racing simulators. Have you ever driven your car around locations to collect materials needed to upgrade your engine or suspension? No! Do you even need materials to improve your car? No! To upgrade a car or buy a new one, you had to participate in races in which you earned money that went to upgrades. The game has rewarded you for being the first in the race, which is the core of the gameplay. As I said above, Elite Dangerous is a game about controlling a spaceship in a large and infinite space, which means that the game should reward you for good control of your spaceship. And where to implement it? To arrange races in planetary canyons, in the rings of gas giants, in asteroid belts and around orbital structures on the principle of overcoming checkpoints and pay credits for this? Perhaps. Hosting combat tournaments with bots or live players with good credit payouts? That would be good. Encourage PvP activity? It would be cool! But where is all this ?! Where is the balance between different types of earnings? Why can't I make a decent living as a bounty hunter, mercenary or pirate? There is more risk here than just transporting goods. Why are you forcing me to constantly collect materials to improve modules? Why can't I just pay for the improvements with credits that I could earn as a mercenary, cop, bounty hunter, pirate, smuggler ?! Okay, the materials can be left for ammunition fusion and module repair. You can also leave it to the engineers for the first access, but then why torture the players. The engineer opened it once, opened the access and stopped. Then you simply upgrade modules for credits. Why not create a chain of small story missions for each engineer, during which materials were obtained, access to new improvements was opened, credits were earned and the player was introduced to the game mechanics? Engineers are key characters. And all this can be combined for the final battle with the thargoid ... Well, then on to free swimming. Why not? It would be more interesting and enjoyable. And when all the engineers are open, you just upgrade your ship for credits. Why is the rescue mechanic dead? You have come up with so many roles, but in essence they are all rudimentary. Grind is not gameplay. Grind is what kills the gameplay.
Games are needed to distract and entertain the user from the routine of everyday work. Elite Dangerous could do well with this, it has enormous potential, which is drowning in the ocean called "GRIND".

Commanders think about it! Like you, I really like this game, but the problems associated with grinding, farming, and imbalance in earnings can no longer be ignored.
With the release of Odyssey, the gameplay issues have grown even more. Eventually, there will be more people who might get bored with all of this, and as a result, online will fall. And this will finally kill the game.
Click to expand...

If you are going with that racing comparison, show me any racing game, that incorporates activities outside of the racing... where is the smuggling game play? hauling cargo game play, killing pirates game play, being a pirate game play? Where is the exploration game play?

So comparing a game that have many different activities with a game that focus purely on one thing, is never going to be a fair comparison.


The earning potential, have increased ALOT, and lately hunting pirates is the top earner! beating mining etc. making complaints about that showing a lack of understanding of the earning potentials different activities have.

The lack of understanding why you need to add more currencies, is also quite alarming here. but with a little research, you should quickly learn, that just about any long time running MMO style game, have had to add new currencies to alleviate a basic problem with the never ending creation of wealth in the game. This similar to what happen in the real economy when you run your money printer non-stop...
In Elite, at first, making credits was alot more work. it took quite some effort, especially if you did not know about the better ways. Then we started to get mistakes done by FDev, where new mechanics etc, introduced new best in class money making activities, and FDev being FDev, did what they could to curb and stop these gold rushes. but then at some point, even FDev realised that it have got out of hand. so they simple gave up trying to control the earnings potential different activities have and instead gave us another more limited currency, engineering material.

So what do you think the price in credits would be for engineering material if you could buy them directly for credits? I will give you a hint, take the BEST credit earning activity, and do that for 1 hour, and then you go play the game, without using any re-logg or any of those short cuts, and gather material for one hour, that is the MINIMUM price we would pay in credits for engineering material. Still do not believe me?

Look at Odyssey, here you can buy a standard space suit for 150 000 credits.

You can also find upgraded suits (and weapons) with installed modules, and buy these for credits! how much does an upgrade space suite cost?
G3 suit no upgrades installed, 4 million credits!
G3 suite with INSTALLED upgrades, 18.7 million credits!

According to FDev, there are G4 and G5 out there... but I have not came across a screenshot showing how EXPENSIVE these are, only mentions of VERY expensive.

so now we can do some math...
Basic suit 0.15 million
G2 - no mods, 0.75 million
G2 - with mods 2.2 million
G3 - no mods, 4.0 million
G3 - with mods 18.7 million

Basic -> G2 with mods, ~15 times price increase
Basic -> G3 with mods, ~125 times price increase


Suits, get more upgrade slots per level...
Ships have more potent upgrades per level... and are per module

So not directly comparable. But lets just assume that, power wise, G3 suit is the equivalent of a fully upgraded ship with G3 modules! and we buy a complete unit, so a ship have the "best" modules installed and then upgraded... and totally ignore any selection of what upgrades you do want...


So lets do some numbers...
Stock sidewinder - 35 000 credits
G3 Sidewinder - 4.4. million, does not sound to bad...

but who flies sidewinders... so next up,
Vulture, 4.9 million, buy a G3 version, and you now have to pay 612 million!!!
What about PvP favourite? the FDL, stock price, 51.6 million, G3 version, an eye watering 6.4 BILLION...


Lets go for gold... the one and only Imperial Cutter, 209 million stock , the G3 version will set you back 26 BILLION!!!
and people thought Fleet Carriers was expensive..


So being able to buy everything with credits is not going to be fun solution you think it will be! FDev will certainly make sure of that... and we are only at G3!

What do you think G4 or G5 will costs? If I am to guess by the G2 and G3 prices, we are looking at lowest it would be something along this:
G4 could be 170 times more expensive over base price (that would make a G4 FDL cost around 8.8 BILLION)
G5 could be 233 times more expensive over base price (that would make a G5 FDL cost around 12 BILLION)

So be very careful for what you wish for! you might get it, and you would NOT like it.
 

Northpin

Northpin
howardtay said:
mining materials in a 700t cutter shouldn't take 4 hours to fill the hold, but maybe an hour would be o.k
Click to expand...

Well, it is possible. You only need to gid gud
I mean, serious pro miners can fill a 512t Cutter with platinum in 30 minutes. Sure, in a haz res and using mapped mining, but it can be done again and again, consistently...
 

Jaffz

Jaffz
Fenwe said:
You can gather mats while you play the game boss. Engineering mats can be gathered during most of the normal game play.

It's only a 'grind' if you choose to speed up that process. At that point it is a choice that you the player are making. There isn't anything wrong with that, but it is a choice.
Click to expand...
This is a long winded way of saying 'you're playing the game wrong'. If there's no grind why do you think this subject comes up on these forums over and over and over again?

Blaze your own trail and all that
 

Northpin

Northpin
Jaffz said:
This is a long winded way of saying 'you're playing the game wrong'. If there's no grind why do you think this subject comes up on these forums over and over and over again?
Click to expand...

Because some people buy ED and expect to finish it in 30 to 50h.
Some others can only play the game 1-2h per week and somehow they expect to get the same rewards as other people get while playing 20-30h per week.
 

Eymerich

E
Northpin said:
Because some people buy ED and expect to finish it in 30 to 50h.
Some others can only play the game 1-2h per week and somehow they expect to get the same rewards as other people get while playing 20-30h per week.
Click to expand...
Only because those who play 1-2h in a week are well aware about what is important in life and what not...
 
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