Zero to hero – 1bn Cr in less than 10 hours on a new account.

Hmm, if that were the case, why am I today reading posts calling for this or that ship to be "buffed"?
When I say "lack of meaningful distinction between ship size classes", I mean exactly that, not "lack of meaningful distinction between ships".

A Sidewinder and an Anaconda are different ships with different capabilities, sure, but those capabilities fall within a fairly narrow range:
- cargo capacity, the biggest difference [1], is 30x
- firepower and defence is less than 10x as a raw value (though the Anaconda can stack SCBs and engineered SBs in a way that the Sidewinder can't on the defence side, but it's hard to argue that's a positive feature)
- speed is much less than 2x difference (unless the Sidewinder has enhanced thrusters, and even then only 3x)
- turning rate is about 2x difference
- the parts for the two ships are inter-compatible to a very high extent. Downsizing most of an Anaconda's internals to Sidewinder-class is often done intentionally to improve exploration performance. Baseline power generation is only 4x different [2] to allow more use of this.

The Anaconda is essentially just a big Sidewinder, which is why "you can do anything in a Sidewinder [3], why do you need a bigger ship?" is a meme in these parts. Indeed, you can do slightly more in the Sidewinder, because it can land anywhere. The Anaconda can do a bunch of things more effectively ... but not that much more effectively, especially if it's not hauling cargo.


For a game with a meaningful distinction between size classes, the old Tie Fighter or Freespace games - or for a modern equivalent, the X series. A Star Destroyer is not just a big Tie Fighter with a bit more armour that takes slightly longer to turn corners. The difference between the largest and smallest X4 ships is around 100x on cargo capacity and damage resistance, 10x on speed and agility, somewhere in-between on damage output, and the equipment is mostly not cross-compatible (though that's less important because the outfitting model is a lot simpler anyway) ... and the price difference is somewhere around 100x as well..


I'm not saying every space game needs a strong size-class distinction - you can get much more interesting mass combat scenarios when there is, but for something like ED which tends towards 1-on-1 dogfights anyway it's probably better not to because 1v1 cross-size contests tend to be too predictable. The context of me pointing out the lack of size-class distinction was that ED has ships which don't have it, priced as if they do ... and this makes earnings balancing virtually impossible. By capabilities relative to the Sidewinder, the Anaconda should cost maybe a million credits for the basic hull (as it did in FFE!), and then the historic 1.0 earning rates for various activities would have made reasonable sense.



[1] Not counting the 4750x difference in price here, which is the actual problem.
[2] Which, in one of EDs many realisms, means that 4 Sidewinder-class 2A power plants connected in parallel have slightly higher output than the Anaconda's 8A plant for less than a tenth of the mass, have better combined integrity, etc. etc. You just can't actually do that because reasons.
[3] Yes, not literally true since it doesn't have medium hardpoints and is short a few utility mounts. Diamondback Scout, though...
 
The people I know who played this game for a short while and left didn't find it hard. They found it to not have anything more than cool ships and dogfighting. While that was more true in 2015 than today, you could say too much out of game research was needed to understand the content of the game, since there simply wasn't enough pointers or challenges to take you through the facets of the game. Other than the 3 ranking systems, and the two military rankings, there simply wasn't anything super obvious to a player who wasn't part of a group.

Today this isn't the case as much, but even today if a completely unaware person purchased EDO and went through the tutorial, then started out where ever they start now, you might be hard pressed to learn, in game, about many of the things we do now. I don't know how long you'd be stuck doing the same grindy things and maybe get bored and find something else.

For example, I don't recall there being a tutorial that had me select a different system and use hyperdrive to get there. I didn't know I could go to other systems for quite some time. I didn't know the mission board existed. I just knew how to turn in bounties for payment and buy ships and modules. The tutorial I saw had me escorting a ship and defending it with fixed weapons, or something like that. Another was about entering the station and landing. Even in EDO I wasn't asked to find any exobiology and scan it. I was only asked to go into a building and do something, shoot some NPCs on foot and get into a ship. Imagine I never played ED. How do I know about the mission board inside a station? (cannot recall if that was ever taught).
I concur.

I've just created an in game client documentation thread:

 
Here's a question - What is the Asp Scout good for?
Here's an answer that isn't a joke: exobiology. For surface flight, it's significantly better than the Asp Explorer, especially with the directional thrusters. (Same landing footprint, better directional thrust, around half the mass, and significantly better shields.) For spaceflight, its jump range is less than the AspX's, true, but it's still pretty good (and even better if you're one of the lucky few who got a double-engineered class 4 FSD), and its supercruise handling is the second best in the game.
Unfortunately, these are overshadowed by the DBX and Dolphin being better at all of these (except the SC handling) while having a much smaller landing footprint. The Courier also beats them, except on jump range.

So, the Asp Scout is still a good ship for exobiology. It's just not among the top three.

It's rather like how the Python is still a good ship for space exploration, but few people consider it if they are shopping for a ship for that role, as there are even better ship choices there.
 
Here's an answer that isn't a joke: exobiology. For surface flight, it's significantly better than the Asp Explorer, especially with the directional thrusters. (Same landing footprint, better directional thrust, around half the mass, and significantly better shields.) For spaceflight, its jump range is less than the AspX's, true, but it's still pretty good (and even better if you're one of the lucky few who got a double-engineered class 4 FSD), and its supercruise handling is the second best in the game.
Unfortunately, these are overshadowed by the DBX and Dolphin being better at all of these (except the SC handling) while having a much smaller landing footprint. The Courier also beats them, except on jump range.

So, the Asp Scout is still a good ship for exobiology. It's just not among the top three.

It's rather like how the Python is still a good ship for space exploration, but few people consider it if they are shopping for a ship for that role, as there are even better ship choices there.
It's good for that, but that's a bit revisionist though since exo didn't exist even though the scout did. EDO made small ships relevant again, simply because of landing and maneuverability, and wow that foresight to allow the SRV to be fitted into anything that flies was a bit fortuitous. Imagine how FDev would have fixed that problem if you needed something like medium pad and above ships to fit an SRV bay.
 
But you start with a docking computer? I didn't learn manual take-off and landing for years :D
Back before the Advanced Docking Computer and the Super Cruise thingy were introduced and they gave all the ships one or two extra slots the Docking Computer wasn’t standard on our ships, in fact early ones had a reputation as homicidal maniacs to be fitted only by brave experienced pilots.
 
Elite is such a grind!

The thargoid war is so inaccessible to new CMDRs!

I must engineer everything to G5 before enjoying the game!



All complaints I’ve heard in various forms here and on other forums.

But since I’d started a new account a little while ago I decided to set out to see what I could do with it in a short amount of time. I didn’t set out to speedrun and this was far from an optimal run but I did achieve my goal, 1 billion credits within 10h playtime (approx. 9h40m according to my codex)

I did it twice already, with my first alt (Steam) in 2019, then with my second alt (Epic) in 2020.
Played with no engineering for like 2+ months on each of the accounts (playing almost daily), no thargs, obviously no exobio, but running mainly missions and tagging along the police in High Res, doing Low CZ if i wanted to, the occasional mining, etc.

All in all it was in both cases an enjoyable experience, taking a different ship progression path for each of the 2 alt accounts, but i liked more the last one - Sidewinder, Adder, Cobra Mk3 (for anything involving combat) / Type-6 (for trading/hauling), Dropship, with the Dropship being the main workhorse for most of the period.

But then again, i knew what i was doing and even tho i played unengineered for that period, i did it with engineering in mind, picking up materials when i had the opportunity - so later on when i decided to unlock engineers, i had an easy start.
However, when i reached Colonia on my Epic account i still didnt have enough combat rank to unlock Olmanova so i had to fit some A-rated shields on my Traveler's Asp and some weapons and spent an afternoon tagging along the Police in a High Res to get to be the Expert Olmanova wanted me to be.

Edit: and that was solo, so no leeching on other's players enginereed ships, no shared 50 millions missions, etc
Not like i find anything wrong with that, just saying 🤷‍♂️
 
Last edited:
When it comes to the grind for money, no, there is not really any and hasn't been for a while as there is always a gold rush. The only thing you proved, that didn't need proving, is how easy money is to get. The game is worse for it.

Engineering, without relogging, is very much a grind. Getting rank is, but only if you are trying to get it quickly.

With the exception of engineering, I've often enjoyed the grind. I worked on getting reputation with Feds for the Corvette, I enjoyed the process I that I used and made elite in trade, the only one I wanted, along the way.

Material gathering for ship-based Engineering, on the other hand, is not something I enjoy. It wouldn't be so bad if trading for mats wasn't so wasteful of mats, or if I could salvage mats from engineered components, or if we had a ship loadout menu where we could quickly equip a ship from existing components. All this transferring, flying all over hell's creation just so I can switch to a ship to off load a component to be used on another.... Sucks.

Don't get me started on foot-based...

It seems like spend more time with AXI combat trading parts between ships and engineering them than I do fighting. And that is just one example. It is the reason I don't play as much as I could. "Well, I want to do X... But I want this engineered, parts from a ship 10 jumps away (after looking through the shipyard for 10 minutes to determine where said parts are), Oh, wait, I need A rated part, and this station doesn't have one, it also doesn't have any size 4 and 5 parts... And I need x part in storage that will take 45 minutes to get here... Never mind, I'll just go play something else."
 
It's good for that, but that's a bit revisionist though since exo didn't exist even though the scout did.
An interesting point, but it's ironic that you said "a bit revisionist" right before you moved the goalposts. The question was what the Asp Scout is good for, not what the Asp Scout was good for when it was first introduced.

It is the reason I don't play as much as I could. "Well, I want to do X... But I want this engineered, parts from a ship 10 jumps away (after looking through the shipyard for 10 minutes to determine where said parts are), Oh, wait, I need A rated part, and this station doesn't have one, it also doesn't have any size 4 and 5 parts... And I need x part in storage that will take 45 minutes to get here... Never mind, I'll just go play something else."
Why not just go to Jameson Memorial? You can get everything there, and you wrote you have Elite in trading, so you have the required permit. (Even if you didn't, there's Brestla.)
Sure, moving multiple ships (and modules) around is a pain if you have them in various systems, but getting a fleet carrier solves that.
 
Why not just go to Jameson Memorial? You can get everything there, and you wrote you have Elite in trading, so you have the required permit. (Even if you didn't, there's Brestla.)
Sure, moving multiple ships (and modules) around is a pain if you have them in various systems, but getting a fleet carrier solves that.
Not every problem is solved by going to Jameson, most often it's one or two modules. Jumping into my bubble hopper or flying a poorly outfitted / low jump range ship just to pickup one or two items is a pain. Most of the time I have the item in my storage, but it takes a long time to get to me.

Sure, a FC will help a lot, but my play style rarely supports such an expense, let alone the time I have to play.
 
IMO, best to build different ships instead of rebuilding ships for a specific purpose when one wants to play. Though this presumes having acquired enough credits and engineering materials which might not be for everyone.
 
IMO, best to build different ships instead of rebuilding ships for a specific purpose when one wants to play. Though this presumes having acquired enough credits and engineering materials which might not be for everyone.
Odyssey's handling of this - where the only reason to have duplicate "modules" is if you want to use both at the same time - I think makes a big difference.

Having the "shipyard" let you select both a ship and a named loadout for it (and "outfitting" be where you purchased the modules and prepared the loadouts) would be interesting and might encourage more experimentation if rather than making yet another 5A Charge Enhanced Power Distributor, you could reuse the one you already had and engineer up a 5A Engine Focused one instead for more specialist cases ... though would have the downside compared with Odyssey that unless you tied yourself to a single station transfer times and costs would make it of limited use. Of course, with the ability for an established player with a Fleet Carrier to have a range of pre-built ships always at hand wherever they go anyway, it's arguable that the transfer mechanism isn't serving the same gameplay purpose it used to anyway [1].

[1] One immersion-friendly option might be to enable instant transfer and loadouts only if you have crew hired: they're already conveniently waiting at whatever station you need them with no on-screen explanation needed for how they got there, so they can be deemed to have conveniently brought whatever parts you're going to need next with them. The higher the (combined) crew rank, the less credit cost you have to pay for each transfer (but of course the more you spend on the actual crew, providing an explanation for why you pay them just as much for not being on your ship), with a full set of Elite crew eliminating the transfer costs entirely (they've worked with you long enough to know exactly what you're going to need next).
 
Back
Top Bottom