Discussion What is the most efficient way to crowdsource the 3D system coordinates

well, its always what you make of it.. to work / build my route planner i've build it as cli tool first as well...


Mine can do that too, only without the nice animation ;) I haven't used it much because I started my project sometime during Beta 1, and route planning wasn't necessary then, and for the Beta 2 I finished my proof of concept map. Only one commenter asked about a command line version, therefore I haven't made binaries yet.

The route is different because likely because it uses fuel calculation, and tries to minimize number of refuels at stations.

Code:
[/d/gocode/src/bitbucket.org/tajtiattila/harmless] (master) 1$ nav -ly 15 aulin 68-draconis
route from Aulin to 68 Draconis:
 0   0.00  ● Aulin
 1   6.98  ○ Styx
 2  14.25  ○ Surya
 3  13.75  ● CR Draco
 4  12.51  | ADS 10329
 5  13.40  | MS Draconis
 6  14.73  ● Tabassapisi
 7  14.02  | Cephei Sector RT-R B4-5
 8   7.36  | Cephei Sector RT-R B4-0
 9  13.26  ● Ngolitjali
10  14.12  ○ Bogatiku
11  14.22  ○ Yakan
12  12.21  ○ 68 Draconis
 Legend:  ●=refuel  ○=station  |=other
[/d/gocode/src/bitbucket.org/tajtiattila/harmless] (master) 1$
 
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Mine can do that too, only without the nice animation ;)
the animation i did by recording the console with ttyrec, and then using tty2gif to convert it.


I haven't used it much because I started my project sometime during Beta 1, and route planning wasn't necessary then, and for the Beta 2 I finished my proof of concept map. Only one commenter asked about a command line version, therefore I haven't made binaries yet.
yah, well for me its what i started with, in beta2 if i remember correctly. Not to give the CLI to others, simply because i rather had the routes working first before caring about the interface =)

The route is different because likely because it uses fuel calculation, and tries to minimize number of refuels at stations.
yah, i was thinking about that, but i figured that most people who travel far will use scooping, also there is very little reliable data about stations available, and to provide the most benefit of factoring in fuel you'd have to know the exact fuel consumption of the ships travelling. For the web interface i had already icons placed there for systems with stations, however it turned out that besides the beta2 systems barely any where in the data at that time, so i've put that feature on "maybe later".
 
Hangs on "Loading .."

Enter Aulin - set as target.
Enter 68 Dr and choose 68 draconis.
Route comes up.
Go to top right and alter parameters - press Set - then it hangs on the "Loading .." prompt - never resolves.
 
Hangs on "Loading .."

Enter Aulin - set as target.
Enter 68 Dr and choose 68 draconis.
Route comes up.
Go to top right and alter parameters - press Set - then it hangs on the "Loading .." prompt - never resolves.

This was bad enough to warrant a quick fix. Thank you for the bug report.
 

wolverine2710

Tutorial & Guide Writer
Full wipe on 16th is a bit of a bummer...

Do you have a source for that? Afaik Michael Brookes said: wipe with 3.9, wipe with gamma. After that NO wipe unless they are forced to do it (technical reasons). Even in that case they could give us our wealth back - credits and costs of ship/equipment.
 
Do you have a source for that? Afaik Michael Brookes said: wipe with 3.9, wipe with gamma. After that NO wipe unless they are forced to do it (technical reasons). Even in that case they could give us our wealth back - credits and costs of ship/equipment.

The bomb was dropped this morning:

There is definetly a wipe for Beta 3.9 and the start of gamma.

Contrary to what I've said before there may be a wipe for launch. This is being discussed here at the moment and would be due to code and galaxy changes between now and the end of gamma. I'll post when a decision has been made.

Michael

He also went on to explain there could be reasons to not even preserve credits, such as the value of things having changed.
 
Well, its a full wipe (eg. no accumulated wealth kept) if there is a wipe. Personally I would prefer that they just decided to wipe. Period. The maybe part makes it hard to commit to the gamma part of the game.
 
Well, its a full wipe (eg. no accumulated wealth kept) if there is a wipe. Personally I would prefer that they just decided to wipe. Period. The maybe part makes it hard to commit to the gamma part of the game.

Yup, that's pretty much what I said in that other thread. If there's any doubt about not wiping then just announce and perform a wipe on release day and be done with it. That way we at least don't have any uncertainty.

I'm wondering if a couple of philosophers stormed the FD offices and demand "rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty".
 
Tho' it's tad bit off topic, yes, I'd rather they just made a decision. I'll play either way, but I'll play differently depending upon what's coming, and would be disappointed if there were to change.
 
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wolverine2710

Tutorial & Guide Writer
In the change log 3.9 thread someone asked about a wipe for release this morning (12:17 AM). NOT good. Source. I guess I will be holding of playing ED till the 16th of December when release 1.0 hits us. That is aside from taking distances - AFTER we get confirmation that between Gamma and Release the seed for the Galaxy will not change - as in 3D coordinates stay the same.

Michael Brookes: No, there's a full wipe for gamma and probably one for release (although that isn't fully confirmed yet but seems likely).
Michael

Note: I find it very suboptimal that FD comes back on their statements/promises wrt to wipes..... PLEASE let them CONFIRM/DENY the wipe before we hit Gamma. One should think they want us to test Gamma to the fullest (new ships, equipment, Galaxy etc) but having a wipe with release 1.0 for ME stops me from doing this. Ships etc costs large amount of money and I don't fancy grinding again for the X th time. NOT when all is lost again with release 1.0 ;-(
 
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Hmmm - Seems I need to make some changes for the static data structure (have to redo (some of) the DB...)

It's a bit muddled...

Economy:
On the galaxy map, it'll now tell you if a system have one/two economies (don't know if more than two are possible)
But on system view - This is not shown.
One has to check the individual stations/outpost. And they aren't necessarily the same (but as far as I can tell, always a subset of the system economy as listed on the GM)


Factions:
Each system now have 3-5 factions (that I've seen sofar), of which one is the "Controlling faction" - Could this change over time???.
Each faction having their own stats.
One of these is "Influence" - Could this change over time???

Station
Each station is owned(?) by a given faction - Could this change over time???

Info for each station now also lists the facilities available there.
Only.. they seem bogus...
Ie. in Aulin there's a Scientific Outpost (Kuo City) that according to the System View should only offer "Refuel" (ie. no repair/re-arm)
But I can repair just fine there and the re-arm option is available as well...


So err...

Not really sure what makes sense to include in the static data atm.

I'll definitely need some argumented suggestions before I can finish this bit of the TGC.
 
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Outline of the data available in System view
(code view to preserve indentation... )
Code:
System (note To see this you have to remove focus from the sun/whatever - Using the highly un-intuitive "R+L mouse drag")
  Controlling faction (can potentially change?)
  Government
  State ?? No idea what this is
  Allegiance
  Population
  Security
  (note that economy is not listed here - But can bee seen on the Galaxy Map)
  A list of Factions


Faction
  Faction (the name)
  Government
  Allegiance
  Influence  (can potentially change?)
  State ?? No idea what this is
  Relationship ?? I'm guessing this is perhaps towards me as a pilot?? (thus not a global static that should be included)
  

Individual Stations
  - Repeats the data for the faction in control of the station (I assume)
  - Facilities (commodities/refuel/repair/re-arm/outfitting/shipyard)
    As it looks now refuel/repair and at least partially re-arm are available everywhere - even if only say "refuel" is listed"
    commodities/outfitting/shipyard are probably the most interesting ones to register if this is true.
  -Trade data
    Economies (note the plural)
    Imports/Exports/Prohibited - So far I've never seen these to have been of terrible much use tbh... (unreliable)
    
  -Stellar data
    Various stuff - Doubt it's really useful for anything...

So what to include in TGC and what not? What's your preferences?
 
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I guess I will be holding of playing ED till the 16th of December when release 1.0 hits us. That is aside from taking distances - AFTER we get confirmation that between Gamma and Release the seed for the Galaxy will not change - as in 3D coordinates stay the same.

I think if they are going to wipe after gamma they will be more likely to change the procedural generation (as it won't matter if they do) so I'd expect the situation to be the same as we have now: positions of systems from stellar catalogs are unlikely to change but everything else could change, including positions of procedurally generated systems ("...Sector..." systems) and the stations/economies for all systems that aren't hand crafted. That said, the procedural generation has changed for 3.9 (Styx stations have changed again) but the positions of the procedurally generated systems has not changed from 3.0. So IMHO if the positions of the stars we have does not change at the start of gamma then they are probably not going to change for release. If they do change at the start of gamma then I'd stick to locating star catalog systems. In either case economy/station data is likely to change for release.

Have you asked Michael about getting another list of reference systems for gamma? I don't think we need every populated system but a more spread out set of reference systems would be very useful. If he can't supply a large list would it be possible to get the coordinates of 10-20 systems that we nominate?
 
My opinions below...

Economy:
On the galaxy map, it'll now tell you if a system have one/two economies (don't know if more than two are possible)
But on system view - This is not shown.
One has to check the individual stations/outpost. And they aren't necessarily the same (but as far as I can tell, always a subset of the system economy as listed on the GM)

I guess it'd be useful to know the economy of any station which has either a commodities market or outfitting. There doesn't seem to be much value in knowing the economy of a station that won't sell you anything! But for 99% of cases it's probably sufficient to know the economy of the system as a whole so I'd be fine with system-level economy data rather than station-level.

Factions:
Each system now have 3-5 factions (that I've seen sofar), of which one is the "Controlling faction" - Could this change over time???.
Each faction having their own stats.
One of these is "Influence" - Could this change over time???

Station
Each station is owned(?) by a given faction - Could this change over time???

I don't see much value in knowing the factions except for a tool that also tracked my reputation with each one (and therefore could have it's own data gathering for both factions and reputation). So I wouldn't bother with storing factions for TGC. Overall allegiance is worth doing though. And yes I guess these things could change over time, at least through FD scripted events.

Info for each station now also lists the facilities available there.
Only.. they seem bogus...
Ie. in Aulin there's a Scientific Outpost (Kuo City) that according to the System View should only offer "Refuel" (ie. no repair/re-arm)
But I can repair just fine there and the re-arm option is available as well...

I think this is worth having (and I'd ticket the fact that the system view is currently inaccurate).
 
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