[POLL] PvE, PvP, PvAll - What is the playstyle you want in ED?
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Rafe Zetter
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Errrm I'm pretty sure I suggested a form of this only a couple of days ago... and got utterly shot down (scuse the pun). Mostly by PvE'ers I suspect, even though my idea still gave them some coverage from ganking.
I'm glad common sense seems to be prevailing that the PvE + PvP optional in the same shard has by far the most votes just as the Playerkiller types have only 2 so far.
There are enough single player space-sims about, with another on its way in the X series to satisfy most hardcore PvE "I don't want to be anywhere near another human player ever" types.
I'm sorry the pure PvE players might get a raw deal now and again; but as a poster said above - you really can't expect to fly to an Anarchic or similar system with a hold full of drugs and have full protection apart from npc attacks; that just isn't what the core of the franchise is about.
PvE'ers also forget a PvPer has no idea who's in the ship ahead, or if there's backup, if it's bait or a dozen other possibilites, so you won't get ganked every single time a human ship appears on your scope, it just won't happen and that's speaking from several years Eve Online experience; in there ganking, griefing, and general nastiness is positively encouraged, yet it's STILL not 100% you'll get ganked in that sort of environment, and there's steps you can take to increase your odds of survival even more.
PvE'ers will just have to adapt a bit for the good of the whole game - which is what we are talking about after all; "What's best to give the highest chances of success for the franchise?".
Carebear's partaking of the "danger" of flying to an anarchic system knowing full well that "danger" has no teeth and that there's a 99.99 % chance of getting there intact (derping into the side of the spacestation not withstanding). I'm not a purist, or a carebear hater, I've been one many a time, but some things you just can't really expect considering the franchise. Some people don't play Eve Online because it's just "not for them", doesn't mean CCP should change it to accommodate you does it?
Elite 1 would have had open PvPvE if it could have.
Provided they don't go anywhere. Which kinda defeats the point.
PvE is not single player, and the whole point of requesting open PvE is that you DO get to meet other players.
Nobody has ever said that it'll be 100%. However, it won't be 0% either.
Maximising the game's audience.
Except it's not "99.99%", because there are still NPC ships, and the vast majority of them will be pirates in an anarchic system.
And Elite Dangerous will have open PvPvE. The proposition is for it to also have open PvE.
I agree with pretty much all of what you said here. I left even recently after playing on and off for several years. The game just became boring over a long period of time and lost its appeal to me - mainly due to the massive monolithic 'sea of blue' in nullsec space which effectively killed any fun pvp and encourages its members to grief (accurate use of the term in this case) in high sec hub systems.
Any non-eve players take a look at the link here, one of the latest 'events' organsined by senior Mittani and his something awful cohort http://evenews24.com/2013/04/19/live-hide-yo-kids-burn-jita-is-here/
I'm hoping the designers at Frontier will be able to design the game in such a way as to avoid sharding/pvp flagging/invisible-to-all-else mode, but at the same time avoid this rancid 'feudal' system that exists in eve,along with awful, awful pve and is helping to make many people quit out of sheer boredom.
I'm not sure how their FPS game Dust is doing, but I can see that being the financial straw to break ccps back in the future.
No, you have been talking about everything BUT separating PvP and PvE groups.
Read the thread. PvE-group (and several PvP-people who understand rationale of offering people what they want in order to keep this game economically viable with competition from Star Citizen and Eve) has been talking about splitting the "All" group currently suggested into two, PvE and PvP with exactly same system as current "All" and Ironman groups.
So that there exists three rulesets which separate people in one of them completely from other two. Ironmen only see people in ironman group, PvP would only see people in PvP group and PvE would only see people in PvE group.
That has been the agenda of pro-PvE people all along.
And designing the system should be done now instead of later in the progress.
As I stated in my earlier message. Star Citizen is already building up system to limit PvP for those who do not want it, but it is in my opinion poorly thought out. Elite could with expansion of their group system into three main groups take the cake with minimal effort.
With that would come the fuzzy, heart shaped wallets of carebears. which is what will determine which of these three games is going to corner the space MMO-game niche.
PvE-people are not going to settle for ideas like "You get core systems", "Go play private or solo" or "some other system providing limited protection from PvP".
If forced to stay in core systems (where griefing is going to happen anyway as proven by Eve) or pushed to play solo or with limited private server, PvE group is going to get bored soon and not play. That means no money.
Which of the PvP group does not understand what "no money" means for games which have constant running maintenance costs?
FD, SC and EO are going to have to split the PvP group anyway, at best it is about 360 000 to 400 000 people cake to share. 400 000 is amount of active accounts, 360k is amount of subscriptions which actually bring money (except those include apparently accounts which have subscription paid with ingame money which I hear is possible these days).
That is not big chunk to share, and by offering same style of gameplay as Eve (forced PvP with only some higher security space "safe" and rest not) means they will have to share.
Now question is... Which one has the brains to go for wider audience to gain more income and who are going to commit suicide.
always having to point this out to ill-informed people, but the accounts paying via ingame currency are also bringing in money for CCP.
The players selling the game time codes in exchange for the game currency (isk) have to buy these with their real world cash from CCP in the first place...
Anyways I've often seen the ill-informed pve purist ranting posters such as tiwaz on many forums, trying to dumb down game mechanics on many games. I can assure anyone here that if he gets his way on all his issues, ED would be commercially dead a few months after going live.
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always having to point this out to ill-informed people, but the accounts paying via ingame currency are also bringing in money for CCP.
The players selling the game time codes in exchange for the game currency (isk) have to buy these with their real world cash from CCP in the first place...
Apparently some ill-informed people have not heard of PLEX, or have not actually had mind to read what it is.
I'll quote for you...
Look at bold part and try to understand it.
Hilarious considering that you are the one who does not know what he is talking about.
PvP-fools wanting to make ED into another Eve Online apparently do not grasp that it is dead end.
My way ED has PvP environment and PvE environment both of which bring in cash. Your way it is dead game within a year of launch because it has no viability when trying to compete with SC and Eve for space MMO niche.
Mechanics are different, but concept is same. Mechanics are less relevant than concept, else we could not say that WoW has competitors because each MMORPG has little different mechanics.
Eve is competition for ED and SC, because their target audience are scifi spaceflight enthusiasts.
LMAO!!
Dude thank the lord ur nothing to do with development, or more importantly marketing, nay, that ur even close to being involved in working with FD on the development of ED
Your absolute lack of understanding of the gaming market in general, the online gaming market specifically and what constitutes niche gaming are completely and utterly not how it works in reality.
Ive refused to respond to any of your posts on this thread because everything u have written hasnt made sense, hasnt had any weight in any of your arguments and your clueless interpretation opf what PvP actually is is very clear for everyone to see. But this paragraph of junk demands a response.
Ru really saying that the maximum market available for ED is 400k people?
The fact of the matter is that everyone on the planet with a PC which can run ED and which has an internet connection, thats your maximum potential market. And we all know that goes into hundreds of millions of people. Ofc that amount of people wont be at all interested in ED but thats the starting point of any marketing strategy.
Wow is the best example of a game which opened up to players who had never even played MMOs, or who hadnt done online gaming or even played a video game in their lives! Living proof that if a games good enough and appealing enough, if the advertising is good and the promotions are strong then u can expand the market beyond a 'niche' as u claim.
And your claim that there is only 360k to 400k possible PvPers is equally as ridiculous. Loads of people who get into a game dont start off being labelled as a PvPer, they simply explore a game they enjoy and end up trying out the PvP side of that game.
If ur gonna make claims and limit the potential PvP playerbase by making claims that only players who have previously done PvP online in similair games are the maximum potental PvPers in ED, then ill raise this claim by adding PvPers from outside your self-invented 'niche'. I foresee a whole load of PvP players from the world of FPS coming in and having a go at ED...
How do i know this?
Some of my gamer friends ive made over the years played Halo and COD at tournament level and i know for a fact theyre waiting for ED to come out and theyre gonna play it.
My point is that players will come from every corner of the gaming spectrum to give ED a try and thankgod thats the truth. Elites reputation preceeds itself and that means its potential market is huge.
I beg u Tiwaz please refrain from making such ridiculous use of figures u have picked out of the air to back up your nonsense. We all know ur a PvP hater, we are cool with that. But lets have adult discussion based on facts and not invented garbage to backup your exaggerated issues.
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LMAO!!
Dude thank the lord ur nothing to do with development, or more importantly marketing, nay, that ur even close to being involved in working with FD on the development of ED
Your absolute lack of understanding of the gaming market in general, the online gaming market specifically and what constitutes niche gaming are completely and utterly not how it works in reality.
Ive refused to respond to any of your posts on this thread because everything u have written hasnt made sense, hasnt had any weight in any of your arguments and your clueless interpretation opf what PvP actually is is very clear for everyone to see. But this paragraph of junk demands a response.
Considering that you are unable to even get your argument straight, railing about how there cannot be PvE environment and then suddenly claiming that you have all along trying to say you that you wanted them split up.
First try to make rational and consistent argument before coming up with ad hominem attacks.
Made to reflect Eve Online universe with PvP everywhere but few safe zones, yes.
That is same people Eve Online could claim as their "potential market". Except massive amount of people do not care about space MMO. That just took out massive chunk of people.
Next limitation will be those who do not want PvP. Another huge chunk.
When you peel off layers of people who are not interested, you have 400k people who are the market. PvE universe would change this.
WOW HAS SEPARATE SERVERS FOR PVE PEOPLE! THAT IS WHY IT HAS MUCH WIDER AUDIENCE!
And you say they all just love PvP... False. As it has been explained to you, massive part of games do not want PvP. That is why WoW PvE servers have higher population in whole than PvP servers. You do not find single "low" population server in Wow PvE. You have quite a few "low" population servers on PvP side. Clearly tells which side brings in the dough there.
Blah blah blah. And how many you can with any reliability claim to be coming there? Why your buddies did not join kickstarter for ED if they are so eager?
Hell, why they are not chipping in now? I think the PayPal route is still open!
You claim they will come and are eager, yet they have not put their money where their mouth is.
Well, present your facts. I have presented FACTS. Facts that tell us that we KNOW there to be 360k subsciptions for Eve online, closest existing thing for ED.
Do you have any reliable number for CoD players planning to come to ED? No? Then how can you claim they are in any way significant in numbers?
What makes you think they will stick to the game and pour money in it?
You can't.
I have based my estimate on FACTS which can be seen, population of different style of servers, amount of people we KNOW to be paying to play space MMO.
Where are your facts? Fantasies of millions of Cod players lining up for Eve are not facts.
WoW has plenty of competitors that have very similar mechanics. Not all of them even share the same thematic genre. *cough cough*SWTOR*cough*
In case of ED versus Eve we're not talking slight differences, but entirely different genre in the fundamental gameplay sense.
ED is going to attract people who want to get into the pilot's seat so to speak, and a great portion of the people who are content with Eve now are not really going to be interested in joystick-waggling action. They'll continue to prefer the full MMO experience and strategic gameplay based on sophisticated economic simulation.
The similar themes mean there's going to be overlap, of course, but it's not the same audience.
You really are hilarious. I played eve for several years by buying plex for my several accounts via ingame currency. Why am I being 'corrected' by someone who has never even played the game, but comes on here having hysterical fits against everyone that doesn't agree with him?
THIS is what you posted earlier '
FD, SC and EO are going to have to split the PvP group anyway, at best it is about 360 000 to 400 000 people cake to share. 400 000 is amount of active accounts, 360k is amount of subscriptions which actually bring money (except those include apparently accounts which have subscription paid with ingame money which I hear is possible these days).'
To clarify, ALL the subs bring in money, its just the people selling the plex to the other players who actually pay the cash to CCP. What you say about suggests that 10% of the subbed accounts aren't of any value to the company.
It would be nice if you were actually able to read what people are saying here.
Giuys, I think a little bit of a chill pill is required or there will soon be another warning on the thread!
Personally I think the threat of downfall if ED doesn't have proper PvE is way overstated - it's not a do or die situation. But I do also believe that it has the potential to bring in more players (and hence money) if it WERE available. Heck, maybe more PvPers would opt to play if they knew the game had PvP with NO restrictions (bar law enforcement/fines/etc) or compromises BECAUSE the PvEers were separated. And likewise, you can potentially attract people in who will see that full PvE option and decide... we have to face reality (as seen from various people even in this discussion) that people's past experience DOES influence, and even dictate, their choices... hence people who have enjoyed PvE over PvP in other games could find this game a more attractive proposition. Even if they are wrongly judging PvP as implemented in ED, it doesn't matter... if they don't buy it they'll never learn otherwise and it's lost revenue.
Personally I think the threat of downfall if ED doesn't have proper PvE is way overstated - it's not a do or die situation. But I do also believe that it has the potential to bring in more players (and hence money) if it WERE available. Heck, maybe more PvPers would opt to play if they knew the game had PvP with NO restrictions (bar law enforcement/fines/etc) or compromises BECAUSE the PvEers were separated. And likewise, you can potentially attract people in who will see that full PvE option and decide... we have to face reality (as seen from various people even in this discussion) that people's past experience DOES influence, and even dictate, their choices... hence people who have enjoyed PvE over PvP in other games could find this game a more attractive proposition. Even if they are wrongly judging PvP as implemented in ED, it doesn't matter... if they don't buy it they'll never learn otherwise and it's lost revenue.
Giuys, I think a little bit of a chill pill is required or there will soon be another warning on the thread!
Personally I think the threat of downfall if ED doesn't have proper PvE is way overstated - it's not a do or die situation. But I do also believe that it has the potential to bring in more players (and hence money) if it WERE available. Heck, maybe more PvPers would opt to play if they knew the game had PvP with NO restrictions (bar law enforcement/fines/etc) or compromises BECAUSE the PvEers were separated. And likewise, you can potentially attract people in who will see that full PvE option and decide... we have to face reality (as seen from various people even in this discussion) that people's past experience DOES influence, and even dictate, their choices... hence people who have enjoyed PvE over PvP in other games could find this game a more attractive proposition. Even if they are wrongly judging PvP as implemented in ED, it doesn't matter... if they don't buy it they'll never learn otherwise and it's lost revenue.
I somehow doubt law enforcement or fines can have any place in a game where you shoot at someone's internet space pixels, that one would be laughed out of court. I assume it will be stated in the TOS that all ingame items are property of Frontier etc....
If the pve is mind numbingly boring like eves though, it won't retain the solely pve players for long, whether or not pvp is consensual or non-consensual
I just think that one of the few good features of eve was its cut-throat market system, and with all this talk of segregation and 'shards' and mirror-universes etc. the possibilities for this are much reduced.
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Have played the game, and quote I provided is directly from eveonline.com.
Tell me, who does CCP buy it's PLEX-cards from?
YOU CAN BUY PLEX FROM CCP! Each PLEX bought with isk from CCP is one where no money is given to CCP. What I am stating are numbers given by CCP itself, 360k subscriptions and rest are various "play for free" test accounts etc who are not paying subscription.
But since we have no knowledge of actual audience, we have to make assumptions based on numbers we know, not from fantasy.
Eve would never lose all subscriptions, as you rightfully noted, but I never said it did. However, there are large number of people there who would switch. Some people even in this forum boast about how they have played Eve so and so much.
Eve subscriptions give us rough number of people who are known to be interested in space MMO win PvP environment with no to little restrictions.
Also, as noted Eve players often having multiple accounts gives us also some margin for people coming from outside Eve into this scene.
We cannot make assumption that having spaceflightsim MMO with same style game would have radically different customerbase.
ED also has a different business model from Eve Online, which is subscription based, while ED is going to be single purchase.
There are many, many people who won't touch MMO's because they're not interested in paying monthly subscription, but who would be willing to give ED a chance.
I would also argue Elite has more in common with first person shooters than with Eve Online.
Why aren't we looking at sales figures for, say, Halo or Mass Effect? Why are we singularly concentrating on Eve?
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