Open-Only in PP2.0?

[Jockey79]

Quite interesting thread. I think it could be good to make the fundamentals absolutely clear - Powerplay is in it's core, a Player(s) VS Player(s) system. NPCs have no impact on it, neither is it in any way random like BGS is to a degree. That's objective.
Now, for the subjective part. I would say if we logically approach this fact, we do have 2 options - we either say well, lets make it simple, whichever group is stronger in the Quantity X Quality ratio should have the advantage. This imo feels like the most fair system because we reward both parts of the equation.
Alternative to this is to say well - we don't care about the player skill part of the equasion.
Personally I think this is much more boring in the long run and not as rewarding for the veterans and even with all the changes... We are essentially back to braindead "who can outhaul who"

In regards to NPC's, you're correct.

Power Play is a player-driven system, however, at no point does it require one player to shoot another player.
A player in Solo Mode can "combat" another player in their Solo Mode via the Power Play system.

So I wouldn't call it a "PvP system" as that expression has certain connotations that you'll be shooting and shot at by other humans.
And other humans are completely optional in every aspect of Elite Dangerous

 

[Rubbernuke]

Quite interesting thread. I think it could be good to make the fundamentals absolutely clear - Powerplay is in it's core, a Player(s) VS Player(s) system. NPCs have no impact on it, neither is it in any way random like BGS is to a degree. That's objective.
Now, for the subjective part. I would say if we logically approach this fact, we do have 2 options - we either say well, lets make it simple, whichever group is stronger in the Quantity X Quality ratio should have the advantage. This imo feels like the most fair system because we reward both parts of the equation.
Alternative to this is to say well - we don't care about the player skill part of the equasion.
Personally I think this is much more boring in the long run and not as rewarding for the veterans and even with all the changes... We are essentially back to braindead "who can outhaul who"

Powerplay is a game where you do PvE that is attenuated by either NPCs or other players.

Powerplay also brings out disparities in modes:

Solo has sporadic and ineffective NPCs that don't oppose anything.
PG allows AFK merit farms, or wing bounuses without opposition.
Open has other players which are peer adversaries regards ships and modules.

The reason why Open was touted to begin with is that NPCs are useless in PP V1 today and only other players can go and do the things required to be that opposition.

We will have to see what PP V2 brings to see if NPCs are good enough to challenge players in solo or PG. Add to that rewarding those who risk more.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Why is it always a T-9?

Because its the worst ship for PvP... unless your name is Rinzler. I guess you remember his PvP Type 9?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Consoles won't be playing in PowerPlay 2.0. It'll be restricted to Live only, though Horizons Live and Odyssey will have their own version of Open.

So, consoles will continue with PP1 or PP1 will be removed?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Because its the worst ship for PvP... unless your name is Rinzler. I guess you remember his PvP Type 9?

My point is that in a game where you can swap to any ship at will, why choose one that is deliberately slow and ponderous when even moving a little dodges the PA coming at you?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

In Powerplay, you support a power and others try to stop you doing what you need to do. Anything someone does is with this context, unlike the wider game where attacking and destruction has no reason behind it.


Taking what I said above you could design it so that only NPC haul fortifications, and that its abstracted. So, in game you'd have a weighted strength for how fast a system fortifies, and is represented by USS of convoys, or SC ships.

If this was woven into a gameplay system you could have states that speed this up, slow it down or temporarily halt it (like infrastructure failures) all based on what attackers do.

Courier missions in a Viper Mk3 racing ship here i come!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

My point is that in a game where you can swap to any ship at will, why choose one that is deliberately slow and ponderous when even moving a little dodges the PA coming at you?

Wasn't arguing against your point, just pointing out why its so often held up as an example.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Courier missions in a Viper Mk3 racing ship here i come!

Well if LYR fortifies with data, thats all you need.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Quite interesting thread. I think it could be good to make the fundamentals absolutely clear - Powerplay is in it's core, a Player(s) VS Player(s) system. NPCs have no impact on it, neither is it in any way random like BGS is to a degree. That's objective.
Now, for the subjective part. I would say if we logically approach this fact, we do have 2 options - we either say well, lets make it simple, whichever group is stronger in the Quantity X Quality ratio should have the advantage. This imo feels like the most fair system because we reward both parts of the equation.
Alternative to this is to say well - we don't care about the player skill part of the equasion.
Personally I think this is much more boring in the long run and not as rewarding for the veterans and even with all the changes... We are essentially back to braindead "who can outhaul who"

Its a system that can either be direct PvP or indirect PvP. Its all about making numbers go up and down. This is 99.999999% done though PvE activities, with some edge cases where a PvP encouter might affect the numbers. Mostly the envisioned PvP would be about stopping someone else make those numbers move. Killing someone in opposition won't change those numbers unless under very specific circumstances.

Therefore PP at its core is indirect PvP through PvE activities.

NPCs are instrumental to PP as they are involved in PvE missions, eg: kill priate missions or Odyssey settlement missions.

We are essentially back to braindead "who can outhaul who"

If you mean that basically as who can grind more, yes. But with PP2 you have the choice of how to make the numbers move, so you can do a wide range of activities, not just haul. Until we see how different activities make the numbers move we won't know if hauling is more effective than combat or something else.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well if LYR fortifies with data, thats all you need.

As I understood, its not going to be limited what you can do, although maybe some powers will favour certain types of activities than others? Have FD said anything about that, to differentiate the powers?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I think at this point I'm back to the "sign my alt up to Delaine on the 22nd, do just enough to unlock the Cytos, buy lasers and unpledge" position...

 

[Rubbernuke]

As I understood, its not going to be limited what you can do, although maybe some powers will favour certain types of activities than others? Have FD said anything about that, to differentiate the powers?

Nothing that we can really look at, sadly. But only two weeks and one sleep to go

 

[Rubbernuke]

I think at this point I'm back to the "sign my alt up to Delaine on the 22nd, do just enough to unlock the Cytos, buy lasers and unpledge" position...

To be honest I can't see why someone wouldn't stay pledged- the rewards don't decay and at the top end you get materials each week for free. If they unpledge all that goes away- although we'll see soon enough what the bonuses are.

 

[Robert Maynard]

To be honest I can't see why someone wouldn't stay pledged- the rewards don't decay and at the top end you get materials each week for free. If they unpledge all that goes away- although we'll see soon enough what the bonuses are.

Depends very much on whether the benefits of being pledged outweigh the downside (for some) of painting a target on ones ship for over 90% of other players pledged and Power NPCs from eleven of the twelve Powers.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Because its the worst ship for PvP... unless your name is Rinzler. I guess you remember his PvP Type 9?

I'll be honest, the only 'PvP' T-9's I remember were Hudson's 'Battle Cattle' Fortifiers/Preppers, who used to run them uparmoured in largeish numbers in open effectively.

 

[WhiteHaulerMan]

Courier missions in a Viper Mk3 racing ship here i come!

Nah, brah... you need to get in on that sweet Adder life, innit?

 

[SergMx]

Depends very much on whether the benefits of being pledged outweigh the downside (for some) of painting a target on ones ship for over 90% of other players pledged and Power NPCs from eleven of the twelve Powers.

As far as I remember in PP1 there were allied forces as well.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As far as I remember in PP1 there were allied forces as well.

If one chooses to be restricted to systems where ones Power is in control.

 

[Nowski]

maybe some powers will favour certain types of activities than others? Have FD said anything about that, to differentiate the powers?

In fact they have :

you'll basically start doing the actions that your power specifically cares about - you can do most actions but there'll be ones that your Power specifically cares about ... based on who that person is ... it means that the [PowerPlay] characters and different playstyles will come together.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Nothing that we can really look at, sadly. But only two weeks and one sleep to go

Counting down the days eh?