No Single Player Offline Mode then? [Part 2]

[Kurgen]

Lol, you are raging because the game was getting patched to beta 3.9?

There's not much to add to that

Kind of... I was raging because I was dumped out of the game in mid-mission. I realise *now* that it was a major reason that required my disconnection, but I received no such information at the time, other than "Oops, sorry, we'll get back to you". As much as I understand the importance of the update, it's a natural reaction... I rage-posted, had my fingers rapped for being a bad boy for doing so, and will be enjoying the new release when I get home from work tonight. All is well.

 

[piotrr]

Why in the heck would I even bother trying to connect the two in any way?

Because it is easier in all ways to make one game in two varieties than two games without a connection between the two. Not that you were really asking about that.

A stand alone SP offline game excludes by it's very nature, a connection to some online data depository of any kind. That's what doesn't make any sense to me.

That depends on how frequent and how massive the data received from the "repository" is. If it's possible for the online game to continue after missing one such update, then it is possible for the offline game to miss all such updates and keep running.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

As it has been said that to create an offline mode and online mode they would essentially be creating two games, the amount of effort put into attempting the promised offline mode comes into question.

No. It was a design decision, not a technical one, because DB thinks an offline variety would be "intrinsically empty" and something.

Most single-player games still consist of a client and a server portion, both running on the gamer's machine.

 

[piotrr]

No, that was never proposed, on the cards, or even desired.

Some purposes of an offline mode are:

1) To be able to pause the game at any point & the universe stops
2) To be able to save the game at any point, come back to it two weeks later, and it still be in the same time & space.
3) To be able to play where there is poor or no internet.
4) To be able to play when the servers go dark.
5) To be able to forward plan when you can't be online 24/7.

Those are five of the positives. It also avoids a number of negatives, such as:

1) Galaxy moves on without you.
2) Your game can be affected by idiots or people who can afford the time to play the game more than you.
3) You can get ganked or smack talked by idiots.

Now, out of those, only ONE of those is covered by SOLO-ONLINE (i.e. what we've got, what we've had since the start of beta, etc). For everything else, you need OFFLINE.

Excellent collection of the points that have been brought up so far. Heck, I didn't even realize the no-save situation until last night. That doesn't bother me personally in Minecraft, but I don't know how I'll feel about it in Frontier.

 

[joejett]

As to the question about whether FD should suffer, my answer is a resounding yes. Actions like these shouldn't be rewarded. Corporations should be trained by consumers so that if they deceive, if they misrepresent a product, they lose business. And while it's a fact that FD has already lost business, we know that when all is said and done it won't be a net loss and that for some time they'll enjoy an immense windfall from this game.

Which is why they did it. They did it because they could.

In this, their actions share certain parallels with crooked politicians who make promises and break them but always seem to get re-elected because to the majority of constituents they can do no wrong.

Many of the people on "my side" of this debate still wish FD well, even though their experience is severely tainted. Just as I don't wish crooked politicians to be re-elected, I wish very much that FD doesn't survive this. But of course they will, and other companies (and other Kickstarter projects) will witness their successful gambit and try to emulate it. And so it goes. This is P.T. Barnum's prophecy in action.

 

[littleminxundr]

As to the question about whether FD should suffer, my answer is a resounding yes. Actions like these shouldn't be rewarded. Corporations should be trained by consumers so that if they deceive, if they misrepresent a product, they lose business. And while it's a fact that FD has already lost business, we know that when all is said and done it won't be a net loss and that for some time they'll enjoy an immense windfall from this game.

Which is why they did it. They did it because they could.

In this, their actions share certain parallels with crooked politicians who make promises and break them but always seem to get re-elected because to the majority of constituents they can do no wrong.

Many of the people on "my side" of this debate still wish FD well, even though their experience is severely tainted. Just as I don't wish crooked politicians to be re-elected, I wish very much that FD doesn't survive this. But of course they will, and other companies (and other Kickstarter projects) will witness their successful gambit and try to emulate it. And so it goes. This is P.T. Barnum's prophecy in action.

You're talking about the P.T. Barnum effect, which doesn't apply. (Barnum's effect hinges on man's ability to lie to others and himself, projecting a wider care for his surroundings than he wishes to shroud his wish to be seen as an unique individual.) The surface of the effect also doesn't apply: Something for everybody has never been the outset of this project. Mr Braben understood this at the very start as he has said that he understands that Elite: Dangerous won't be for everybody, which in itself was a statement unrelated to the current happenings.

*burp*
Back to drinking tea.

 

[poet1960]

That depends on how frequent and how massive the data received from the "repository" is. If it's possible for the online game to continue after missing one such update, then it is possible for the offline game to miss all such updates and keep running.

What??? LOL, I'm sorry, but did you not understand the part about being an OFFLINE SP game? Offline means, well...offline. No connection. Nada. Zip. Frequency and volume are irrelevant in that context. You shouldn't even be connected to anything. Offline vs online are mutually exclusive. It is either online or offline. The words on and off are opposites, not the same.

 

[Zuikaku]

As to the question about whether FD should suffer, my answer is a resounding yes. Actions like these shouldn't be rewarded. Corporations should be trained by consumers so that if they deceive, if they misrepresent a product, they lose business. And while it's a fact that FD has already lost business, we know that when all is said and done it won't be a net loss and that for some time they'll enjoy an immense windfall from this game.

Which is why they did it. They did it because they could.

In this, their actions share certain parallels with crooked politicians who make promises and break them but always seem to get re-elected because to the majority of constituents they can do no wrong.

Many of the people on "my side" of this debate still wish FD well, even though their experience is severely tainted. Just as I don't wish crooked politicians to be re-elected, I wish very much that FD doesn't survive this. But of course they will, and other companies (and other Kickstarter projects) will witness their successful gambit and try to emulate it. And so it goes. This is P.T. Barnum's prophecy in action.

Luckilly we have alternatives. A long time fan lost once will never return again. If they are not bothered by that ,I really don't see why we shoul'd be. They got what they wanted, we'll find what we want somewhere else. Even if we have to wait for 10 more years.

 

[cptzipzap]

is there a table with pro and contra points for off - online?

 

[Erna Jedermann]

I ll be back..do you miss me? ...just joking and not Flaming...

Many good Thing in this second thread even that the Community manager final find his way...I appreciate that.
M.Brook takes his Time to answer again selected question, but what can he tell...all what he maybe said can use against FD.
Only the joke about Minority was not so good, because it can read as offliner didn´t count ..but it was a good sign that he takes his time for us.
D.Braben than jump short in to say that they try to find solutions ..also I respect that.

Yes many White Knights again here...it really looks like all comes in Waves....Offliner a few pages ...Knights a few Pages.
It´s a pity that they didn´t see that we also fight for them....because sooner or later there will be some off them in the same positions we are now...
The only whats fears me is, that they are blinded from THE VISON ... but ok it there point of view...

Very good Ideas about possible Offline Mode...I have also one:
REAL SOLO Online...means Own Chararcter for REAL SOLO, and this mode are not affected by other Players from OPEN/Group/REAL SOLO.(e.g. Gold price is 100+/- COMMUNITY VAlUE .. in real solo only 100...and if quit/save all stays static)

About F2P...I can say many but I don´t want Fire up...only see how it works for SOE, and you will see how it can work for ED/FD.

Finally .. most MMO lost user after time....it a fast living generation ... the next UBER Game is at the next Corner.. so offline Version will be good for them which don´t run to each new Hype ...
Elite never was an short time Game, its allways be a longrunner, and that better works offline...(I still play Fallout 3/New Vegas with mods...)

See no attacks ... ...only little pokes...

 

[littleminxundr]

is there a table with pro and contra points for off - online?

Not that I'm aware off. Apart from other considerations, I consider offline along the lines of me throwing the door shut, just as I do when coming home from outside doings.

 

[amigacooke]

Would FD have thought about reviewing their position on refunds and an offline mode (at some time) without this mega thread?

Lots of unhappy customers equals bad business.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Luckilly we have alternatives. A long time fan lost once will never return again. If they are not bothered by that ,I really don't see why we shoul'd be. They got what they wanted, we'll find what we want somewhere else. Even if we have to wait for 10 more years.

I doubt we'll need to wait that long. The latest video for Limit Theory looked -immense-. The prototype people have said was not up to much but frankly it seems like what's in the videos is a completely different beast, it's got it's own scripting language for modding, fully offline, entirely procedural, his dev videos and blogs are informationally dense. If he gets it out early 2015, well, I don't think we'll have to worry too much.

 

[littleminxundr]

Would FD have thought about reviewing their position on refunds and an offline mode (at some time) without this mega thread?

Lots of unhappy customers equal bad business.

Don't pat yourself on the shoulder. Credit Card cashbacks I assume are the driving factor; too many flags from that direction hurts their economic position much more than an angry mob. On corporate level, Frontier isn't operating in a vacuum. For dealing with other companies they must maintain corporate goodwill, which is a different beast alltogether.

 

[Zuikaku]

I doubt we'll need to wait that long. The latest video for Limit Theory looked -immense-. The prototype people have said was not up to much but frankly it seems like what's in the videos is a completely different beast, it's got it's own scripting language for modding, fully offline, entirely procedural, his dev videos and blogs are informationally dense. If he gets it out early 2015, well, I don't think we'll have to worry too much.

It is not elite, but it does not try to be EVE online

 

[Solei]

As to the question about whether FD should suffer, my answer is a resounding yes. Actions like these shouldn't be rewarded. Corporations should be trained by consumers so that if they deceive, if they misrepresent a product, they lose business. And while it's a fact that FD has already lost business, we know that when all is said and done it won't be a net loss and that for some time they'll enjoy an immense windfall from this game.

Which is why they did it. They did it because they could.

In this, their actions share certain parallels with crooked politicians who make promises and break them but always seem to get re-elected because to the majority of constituents they can do no wrong.

Many of the people on "my side" of this debate still wish FD well, even though their experience is severely tainted. Just as I don't wish crooked politicians to be re-elected, I wish very much that FD doesn't survive this. But of course they will, and other companies (and other Kickstarter projects) will witness their successful gambit and try to emulate it. And so it goes. This is P.T. Barnum's prophecy in action.

Echo this!

I could not have said that better myself.

Oh boy. It seems like my profile have been swarmed by moderators, and i may be under the watchful eyes of the reaper. ;p
*hides*

 

[Rafe Zetter]

You lot are all ridiculously lucky.. I've just spent almost 2 hours constructing a well worded, insult free, hyperbole free but extremely heartfelt (and LOONG) response to why I feel so strongly about what has occurred and....

The internet ate it. Said I had used a bad word (I swear I didn't) and the "use the back button to edit it" lied as my lyrical creation was not to be found.

Expletive

Expletive.

Here's the TL;DR. These words are all my own and indicative of no-one elses thoughts (far as I know) but my own meandering ramblings. Here's a salt shaker for those so inclined. Enjoy.

If FDev took the offline mode down to meet corporate obligations coz they took "the man's" money for allowing RL advertising in the game that would not be seen in "offline only mode" (which means it's somewhere OTHER than shown during an intro) - then "BOO HISS!"

If they did the above BEFORE KS, they've known about the above obligation since the start and could not have given us the offline mode at any time and and why did they need KS funding after they had corporate funding? That would infer they have misled us from day 1 - in which case LYING BOOO HISS expletives. (possible pitchfork included).

If they did the above AFTER successful KS (because now "the man thinks this project might have legs and make us some money after all"), they've known about the above obligation for some time and didn't tell us - in which case a bit less "BOO HISS!" (but not by much).

Why are they making backers practically beg for their money back after such an obvious moral (and contractual) infringement? So far according to the refund thread NOT ONE of the people posting in it has been refunded up to THREE DAYS later - BOO HISS *cough up you stingy people of dubious morality*. If I were FDev I'd be scrambling over myself to refund as physical proof of the stated remorse felt over how this was handled. Case by case basis? NO. You made a bad boo boo and you know it.

Reason for such invective; (candy for Jonty I had to look some of your words up and I'm extremely well read ) - that's venomous or reproachful language to the rest of you is this:

I like many have been waiting for Elite IV for quite some time, close to two decades in point of fact and the promise of it by David B had reached mythical, almost sacred proportions - the White Whale of gaming - spoken of in hushed tones and whispers by those fans who kept the flame alive.

To see the promise and adventure tarnished in such a fashion by the very people trusted with its creation truly TRULY makes me sad; although I have more emotionally invested in the whole franchise than is probably healthy but to give a short explanation;

(If oversharing makes you feel nauseated or otherwise bothers you skip the next paragraph).

The original Elite game came as a lifeline to me during a time of great darkness and trouble in my young teens - it's not overstating it that it saved me from suicide - because "I can't die because there's stuff like Elite coming out and I have to see what's next". That's one of the reasons I reached ELITE STATUS and more recently became one of the nine, not just from a committed passion to achieve the status and enter the competition but also merely as a by product of the amount of time I spent in my Cobra MKIII, and my ELITE badge (my avatar) is my symbol of the victory over death - in all seriousness it's my most prized possession - I'll be buried wearing it (coz I'm geek like that). Playing the Elite franchise always gave me an outlet for my childish dreams of being among the stars. Being anywhere but here.

Sure it's "just a game", but then it's just a song or a film, or a book - but just a song has turned even the stoutest of men to tears and millions of people have died or been killed for "just a book".

Some people really should have known better than to mess with something that has such meaning for people and you can bet your tushy David B knew the proportions of the myth Elite IV had attained.

CTRL C.... submit.

My other post was better...

Expletive.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

EVE's profits have taken a nose dive, and after 10 years the average player online is still less than 40000, I don't call that successful(WoW is losing subs on a monthly basis). F2P is here to stay,whether we like it or not(I don't), but WoW and Eve will have to change soon.....

You do know that that 40,000 average is PLAYERS ALL LOGGED IN AT THE SAME TIME right? I'd call a playerbase that can average 40,000 to all be online at once, rude healthy to me.

A quick google and it shows that Eve Online as of last count in Feb 2013 had around 500,000 active players - not accounts, PLAYERS. With attendance at the fanfest numbering over 100,000 at it's peak.

Before the WoW monster came along, MMO's would have given vital parts of the dev's anatomy to have those numbers. Like someone posted about a youtube "wow ruined it for everyone". NO gaming dev should expect to get the same sort of numbers as WoW, even when WoW was just vanilla.

 

[amigacooke]

Mobrule is never a good thing.

Though mobfunding is apparently.

To plagiarise 'No mobfunding without representation'.

 

[Wolframium]

As to the question about whether FD should suffer, my answer is a resounding yes. Actions like these shouldn't be rewarded. Corporations should be trained by consumers so that if they deceive, if they misrepresent a product, they lose business. And while it's a fact that FD has already lost business, we know that when all is said and done it won't be a net loss and that for some time they'll enjoy an immense windfall from this game.

Which is why they did it. They did it because they could.

In this, their actions share certain parallels with crooked politicians who make promises and break them but always seem to get re-elected because to the majority of constituents they can do no wrong.

Many of the people on "my side" of this debate still wish FD well, even though their experience is severely tainted. Just as I don't wish crooked politicians to be re-elected, I wish very much that FD doesn't survive this. But of course they will, and other companies (and other Kickstarter projects) will witness their successful gambit and try to emulate it. And so it goes. This is P.T. Barnum's prophecy in action.

As strongly as I feel about the issue, I do not wish for FD to "not survive this": to be honest, if they were to release an offline version of the game in one or two years from now, I may still buy it (provided I got my money back for the online version first), however I agree that, just as I have learned my lesson to never ever back a project on Kickstarter because at the end of the day it's little more than gambling and because unfortunately you can really trust no one, they too should learn the lesson that all customers deserve the same kind of respect and consideration even if they are a minority, that if you promise something and get paid for it before you deliver, you find a way to make it happen, because you were paid to deliver not excuses mixed with shameless loopholing out of refund demands, but the product that you yourself described.

So yes, in that sense, I do wish for FD (and, more generally, the gaming industry) to feel the heat a little (only in terms of revenues that is, certainly not physically or psychologically), not out of spite or vengeful feelings, but because I hope that they will learn from their mistakes and not repeat them again.

 

[amigacooke]

Don't pat yourself on the shoulder. Credit Card cashbacks I assume are the driving factor; too many flags from that direction hurts their economic position much more than an angry mob. On corporate level, Frontier isn't operating in a vacuum. For dealing with other companies they must maintain corporate goodwill, which is a different beast alltogether.

Right, the bad publicity has nothing to do with their decision at all.