External View [A definitive discussion]

[akiratasoeur]

I was just thinking.

The irony in all this is that if FD won't make an external view, someone else will release a MOD to support external views. And it will probably be better than anyone would have expected. Problem solved.

There are enough people being vocal, make that very vocal about wanting an external view so a MOD is probably already in the works.
I guess at this point, the purpose of this thread is to push for an official 3rd person view vs a MOD.

 

[Deyn]

I'll never understand the problems people have if FD would 'activate' / 'bind' the external view in solo mode only... you know, the devs already use it plus fly by etc. to produce promotion stuff. Again SOLO mode!!! No other players!!! ...I would like to ask an NPC to take photos of my ship, alas, I don't know if he will listen.

So much to the diverted efforts, more important things.

People are expected to pay for new ship skins and by the looks of it, for decals, to finance the server operations. I would be interested in some numbers how many current players skipped on the skins (as you have no way to have a look at them) and how many of the expected players on release will come in here and voice their oppinion on that decision and put the vocal minority of naysayers on edge...

Drones are not a real solution, either, as they seem to take up slots, cost credits and could interfere with combat? Really, especially the "external view is cheating faction" should get vocal now... that is exactly the kind of "combat advantage" nobody wants! If it costs money or not, it's about the way you play.

Now the "my immersion will suffer" argument, how exactly could somebody actually force you to even bind it to a key in the first place???
...and I'm of the oppinion from what I read here on the forums, people that play 'hardcore' usually won't play solo mode at all, right?

Considering the arguments exchanged, to me it looks like people are opposing external camera in Solo mode simply to annoy the ones who desperately want them. Just to 'win' the argument. Nobody seems to even consider the arguments of the people who want this and as the arguments against it are weak at best just come up with brilliant arguments like "I hope never!" - "Don't want!" Or repeat arguments already proven weak at best (even if you fear a waste of developer time on this, consider they have to delete the external cam bindings for the dev version etc. from each build for beta, gamma and release?)

Let's wait how the newcomers feel about this little missing feature, I've read about expectations of up to 400,000 new players expected ( well, propably less considering offline gone) and my guess is it will quickly get cosy in this thread.

If I were Frontier marketing, I would put a big read sticker with "Online connection required during play" and "No external views available" to the shop and advertisements, just in case.

 

[Chainmail]

There are good gameplay reasons why unrestricted external views would be a bad thing. Drones can play multiple gameplay roles other than a mechanism for space-selfies. That's why I am against external views in the tradtional sense.

 

[KrispyDuckOld]

I'll never understand the problems people have if FD would 'activate' / 'bind' the external view in solo mode only...

Totally agree. I only intend to play solo. External view gives me no combat advantage over anyone. And surely I am big enough to decide how it might impact my own "immersion" (I'm so sick of that word).

And the thing I really find odd is that I rarely see posts complaining how much in-battle advantage is given to people using head-tracker equipment. I don't get why that is OK.

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There are good gameplay reasons why unrestricted external views would be a bad thing...

Do you mean in multiplayer? What are the good reasons to ban it in solo mode?

 

[CDR TSquared]

Hello Folk!

To add a little developer clarification:

We are looking at external camera views, with the following caveats:

* They are contextualised as camera/drone systems
* They are not designed to be used as alternate flight views
* Their primary function is to allow "beauty shots"
* They may have occasional tertiary game play functions (such as seeing how close you are to something)

No ETA at the moment though.

Hope this helps.

Yay! Purty wallpaper of my ship in its new skin coming right up!

 

[Chainmail]

Totally agree. I only intend to play solo. External view gives me no combat advantage over anyone. And surely I am big enough to decide how it might impact my own "immersion" (I'm so sick of that word).

And the thing I really find odd is that I rarely see posts complaining how much in-battle advantage is given to people using head-tracker equipment. I don't get why that is OK.

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Do you mean in multiplayer? What are the good reasons to ban it in solo mode?

Because you can use it to observe stuff that you shouldn't be able to as a pilot inside your ship.

(Unless some kind of autonomous external camera were able to be purchased in-game...like a drone, perhaps...)

Most of the reasons given seem to amount to "but I really want it", pretty much. (Head-tracking is a red herring, as nobody is barred from using it by the developers.) Given that the arguments for it's inclusion are so weak (paint jobs? really?), the arguments against it need be no stronger than the one I just put forward.

 

[NeilF]

So what are we making of this? Drones sell-able back the the store? Are these camera drones or cargo hatch drones or something different? This would imply that they do take up an equipment slot and that they are destructible but actually usable in combat.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61341

Well, these could all simply be about cargo hatch drones?

 

[Deyn]

There are good gameplay reasons why unrestricted external views would be a bad thing. Drones can play multiple gameplay roles other than a mechanism for space-selfies. That's why I am against external views in the tradtional sense.

Can you please ellaborate on these gameplay reasons that are affecting solo play, please?

Just one or two would be sufficient...

That was what I meant by "same arguments" and hollow statememts like "there are so many valid reasons not to have external view in solo play, unfortunately just now nothing comes to mind“

Sorry, but the only argument I can think of is "immersion" and that is easy to fix by not mapping a key bind, plain and simple.

Remember, we talk about external/cinematic fly-by cams no 3rd person gameplay and in solo mode only!

 

[Deyn]

Because you can use it to observe stuff that you shouldn't be able to as a pilot inside your ship

That is basically the old "immersion" argument in disguise, nothing more.

Or do you think you could "jump" your camera to unexplored systems and see what's there?

Usual cinematic views extend no more than a few hundred feet from your ship. Now don't tell me you could see something you coudn't see when turning your ship, ridiculous.

 

[Deyn]

And thinking of things you should not see as a pilot of a space ship, these odd white particles you see while flying to give you a sense of speed and direction are also a game feature to help flying the ship, but nothing you're supposed to see in space. Same goes for the laser shots and beams, no atmosphere or particles to fracture light into your eyes unless it comes your direction.

Nobody ever really considered to remove this, as a real pilot should not be able to see it?

Yep, I guess it is everybody realizes few people would be intrested in such a game.

 

[Mardante]

And ohw yeah... Why let us pay for paint packs when we can`t even see them ourselves?!! Give us external views

 

[Chainmail]

snarky claptrap

The great thing is, I don't need to respond to any of that! I already won! Yay!

The devs have repeatedly declared that external views are on the way at some point, albeit with the requirement for a drone, and not in such a way that gameplay can be affected. Which is exactly what I wanted.

You're jumping into a fight long after it was won or lost. Everyone went home long ago. Their bruised faces and/or knuckles healed and they are back at work, the memory already fading. Meanwhile, you're standing in an empty pub car park swinging your fists wildly at air. Good luck with that.

 

[Crab]

And ohw yeah... Why let us pay for paint packs when we can`t even see them ourselves?!! Give us external views

Sadly, this is reason why I wait with buy any paints.

 

[Deyn]

The great thing is, I don't need to respond to any of that! I already won! Yay!

The devs have repeatedly declared that external views are on the way at some point, albeit with the requirement for a drone, and not in such a way that gameplay can be affected. Which is exactly what I wanted.

You're jumping into a fight long after it was won or lost. Everyone went home long ago. Their bruised faces and/or knuckles healed and they are back at work, the memory already fading. Meanwhile, you're standing in an empty pub car park swinging your fists wildly at air. Good luck with that.

As I said, let's all wait for the 16th Dec and see what happens...

 

[AndyC77]

This appears to be good news. This game will be much more enjoyable for me with external views. They have done an absolute fantastic job designing these ships at the very least we should be able to view them in flight. A much needed part of the game, lets have it.

 

[Sav112]

The devs have repeatedly declared that external views are on the way at some point, albeit with the requirement for a drone

That will do! Great they are on the way.

 

[NeoRacer]

I dont wanna see my ship thru a 'drone' view? What does that mean, I get a crappy degraded image since Im viewing it via another screen? LAME.

 

[Sav112]

I dont wanna see my ship thru a 'drone' view? What does that mean, I get a crappy degraded image since Im viewing it via another screen? LAME.

Don’t know why you think it would be a crappy image. It’s just a way of adding it into the game I think far better having a drone showing you fly past to appreciate your ship in its surroundings that just have a magical external camera.

The drone could have other uses in exploration etc and seeing your ship in its glory could just be a by product.

 

[Borgkube]

If you want people to buy paint jobs, you better give them a way to look at them other than seeing them in the Outfitter when they are applied. I will not waste money on paint jobs I can't see. (And besides you don't have Stealth Black!)

 

[Sav112]

A part of me does not like the idea of having to buy things like this but if it supports the running of the online servers and further development then I’m all for it. Plough the cash generated back into the game.