New ship: Panther Clipper

Aha, so many people have been waiting for this for years?
I'd like to know who makes these decisions on the development side.
If FDev had always involved the community, the game would be in a different state.
It's a shame.
 
Hi :)

I’m going to say it won’t. A very good chance exists it’s not even going to match the Corvette’s top end (boost) speed, though that’s a guess based on them saying it’s going to be more like a T9. Even if it has those size 8 thrusters… look at the speed indicated on the footage of it exiting the mail slot. If that (as I presume) is its E rated, unengineered speed… it’s not going to be fast in any category. Normal space flight, anyway.

I've never bought a T9, but from what I've read on the forum about the T9...isn't it a bit more agile at low speed than the Cutter?
If so (and the Panther was hinted at being somewhat 'ok' as a laser miner, not this has any real bearing on my question perhaps) then compared to the Cutter the Panther is more manoeuvrable at certain lower speeds? :)
Footnote, another question / debatable subject...well, as far as the recent livestream is concerned, there was no mention / hint of what the next new ship might be, or the next new (?) feature in the Autumn?...but staying on topic...what size of ship launched fighter can the Panther carry? (or any shipboard , player owned or otherwise for that matter?).
A single ship?...or more?

Jack :)
 
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I thought it was up at that point. I don’t recall seeing the gear down icon being lit up/filled in - and the thrusters were in the regular flight position.

… plus I don’t think that the Panther is going to fit the slot easily with the gear down.
Had to double check myself - turns out it was down.
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Just noticed another thing now - only 2 pips to ENG. Someone else can do the maths on this!
 
isn't it a bit more agile at low speed than the Cutter?
No. No. Absolutely not. It has a roll rate equivalent to its pitch roughly at 30 degrees and it is extremely absymal (it’s even worse in supercruise). Like you think the Cutter turns bad, the T9 I’ve seen it described as an arthritic beached whale and I am very inclined to agree to that, experiencing it myself.

And the Cutter’s drift is only an issue if you boost straight at the mail slot from wherever you are, while I’ve found ways around that or just… not boosting and letting the Cutter’s even basic regular speed do the work.
Had to double check myself - turns out it was down.
It’s still a bit on the low side for Cutter-type speeds with whatever the top end might be, being how I recall or vaguely think that the gear down cuts speed roughly in half. Maybe slightly above T9 IF that footage was captured with a stock E rated build, but probably not that much faster.

A lot depends on how much speed it loses once it is fully loaded, but those answers are only going to come next month when players have their hands on it.
 
If the hull is made from Hardened, Lightweighted, Anacondium, those 400t could be offset by a lesser hull mass, despite the ship being massive.
PC having hull mass somewhere between T9 and Cutter seems likely. Cutter is pretty much Empire's answer to Federal Corvette, so it's tuned for combat with strong hull. T9 is a utilitarian, cheap ship and the engineering department probably didn't go all-out on reducing mass wherever possible. PC is a high-end ship and SCO tuned hull is necessarily engineering heavy, so it makes sense it's lighter than Cutter even if it is a much larger ship because it doesn't need to fight in conflict zones and engineers could afford to optimize the hull structure to their heart's content. But even then it couldn't be lighter than T9 because it's simply a much larger ship. 900...1000 tons seems reasonable, resulting in around 26...27 ly jumprange when fully loaded and using the pre-engineered SCO drive.

Guess we'll know for sure in 3 weeks when the partner program streamers get preview access.
 
Aha, so many people have been waiting for this for years?
I'd like to know who makes these decisions on the development side.
If FDev had always involved the community, the game would be in a different state.
It's a shame.
i am not so sure... its not like we the player base are united.

what we as a group want is an offline massively multiplayer game all in 1 open mode with the potential to PvP anyone at anytime whilst also played solo seeing no other players and in groups each with their own rules, with strict rules where the economy is plausible and sustainable whilst also being a full sandbox with all the best toys given day 1. A game built primarily around combat where combat is entirely optional and players able to chill out and explore in peace and with new shiny content with earth like worlds and under water bases and exploring gas giants funded by a monthly subscription but with no extra money needed to be paid over and above the (potentially free) copy that came on the epic store or prime gaming giveaway.


simples :D

My view is FD already detailed a pretty amazing game back with their design documents... i still would love to see that game in all its glory. They dont need to listen to us, they just need to follow their own plan better imo.
 
If the hull is made from Hardened, Lightweighted, Anacondium, those 400t could be offset by a lesser hull mass, despite the ship being massive.
I am enjoying this discussion so much that the requested tonnage stays under the wild demands of some players but is critisised again as being too high because of space magic :)
I am seeing it like you: the new slots are a new alloy and have a miniaturized technology for storing the containers. End of story.
I had done it even more prescriptively and defined those two storage slots as '50% up, unchangeable'. Reason behind is that no matter if one kits out the ship as a miner or a transport ship, you would always need the cargo space.
 
X3 Manual Page 83:

CARGAN SPACE EXPANSION

Your cargo space is expanded by a certain number of cargo units using subspace compression technology.
This expansion becomes more expensive with each use as the technology used becomes increasingly complex.

Simple explanation ;-)
 
We could just write it off as someone seeing the old cargo rack design that’s possibly centuries old and no one saw much need to change it, but thinking “Well, this could be improved anyway”, and going at it.

Or it’s another one of those mysterious Titan salvage tech improvements that never visibly materialized since the announcement of those wrecks being looked into proper (still waiting for CG Frontier). But given how it was described I don’t think cargo storage solutions would have gotten any benefit from said salvage/research. Maybe this is why Brewer’s colonization ships can magick an entire Orbis starport into existence once the last delivery of commodities is concluded.

Joking aside… after having some time to think the Panther’s cargo capacity isn’t that terrible and would likely still cut colonization haul trips down by about 25-33% (I’ve only done rough headmaths on the subject) with its ~1,230 cargo when stripped to only haul. Or even if you go the extra length of putting in a shield on it and compare it to a similarly set up Cutter/T9 with 728 tons instead of their respective maximum.

Not that I was ever excited or expecting it to have 1,500 tons. I certainly won’t run to any stores for a midnight release purchase.
 
Ultimately, the Panther Clipper seems so far to not change the equation enough for me. I have limited time and as much as I want to complete my colonies, checking the new cargo load in my spreadsheet, it doesn't change the calculus over using the cutter enough for me to enthusiastically buy it. 1238 vs 794 tons of cargo sure sounds nice, but it hasn't actually hit my expected value to buy it off rip.

Sure, it has knocked 800 trips (doubled for FC loading) off of the 2355 trips for me (the expected average for completing one of the colonies is 1.8 million commodities) for a 33% saving in hauling numbers, but its entirely possible that between realspace maneuvering and mailslot jams with NPCs, I may end up equal or lose time, so I'll be waiting on spending arx till after seeing the maneuverability of the ship.

I'm one of the people that had hoped for 2xsize 9 slots that only have cargo modules for them (just look at the ship design, 3/4 of it is a cargo rack!), which they have almost done with the specialized racks, but being solidly sub 1500 its up in the air for me.
 
Why not just up the cargo size rather than some hand wavium idea ? Are we going down the specialised weapons rack route if you put plasma on this ship you get another one ?
We don't get any extra for the military slots with many people wanting to get rid of them , the reserved passenger slots came and gone .
I just don't like the hand wavium spacey wacey oh if you put a 7 cargo in here we give you an extra 64 t and if you put an 8 in you get 128 ? Why not add another 6 and 7 and lock them unless the 7 and 8 are being used as cargo . Makes sense no makey up stuff or "magic" .
But these are justu thoughts . I hold Elite as quite factual in the broadest sense. And it just affects my silly sensibilities.
And I still won't pay for early access noatter whose echo chamber it is 😜
In the post you responded to I was talking about cargo-restricted slots rather than the 'efficient' cargo rack – I talked about the special cargo rack about a page later I think, and agreed that having '8776' restricted makes more sense to me than '87' restricted plus special cargo rack. At first glance the only difference between the two is that the way they've done is less maximum fuel, but that's completely irrelevant.

There is another explanation I thought of, though it might feel a bit tinfoil hat to some. There was a lot of push for higher cargo capacity in this thread. We don't know that they didn't listen. This was something I said on Discord an hour before the release:

[About 1000-1050t capacity] I think that's what I came out with doing some playing about, too. I wouldn't be that surprised if it was more like 1200 though, and they'd shifted it upward in response to community pressure this last month.
And we got a Panther-Clipper which has 192t extra space by an unusual mechanism. Question is, why on earth would they come up with a mechanism like that rather than just add another 7 and another 6? The only reason I can really think of is that it wasn't easy to do, which points a bit to them having planned the Panther out with a ship interior.

Anyway, the idea of an efficient cargo rack isn't spacey wacey hand wavium. Cargo bays absolutely can vary in how space-efficient they are. It's unusual gameplay design, but it's not magic.
 
Sure, it has knocked 800 trips (doubled for FC loading) off of the 2355 trips for me (the expected average for completing one of the colonies is 1.8 million commodities) for a 33% saving in hauling numbers, but its entirely possible that between realspace maneuvering and mailslot jams with NPCs, I may end up equal or lose time, so I'll be waiting on spending arx till after seeing the maneuverability of the ship.
Given that mailslot jams with NPCs don't at all depend on the ship you're flying, and that the Cutter is by no means a great realspace maneuvering ship for docking maneuvers, this sounds like you're trying to sour grapes yourself out of the purchase. It's by no means required to want to buy the Panther Clipper, and nobody is going to hold anyone accountable for purchasing or not purchasing (perhaps), but I don't think this kind of "it's going to be a lousy ship, I just know it in my bones" advanced complaining is useful.

If someone told me I could save 800 trips out of 2355, I'd say sign me the heck up.
 
And that's why I had really hoped for the size 8 FSD to finally show up.
Yea, that one was my greatest wish. The oldschool mk1. had a class 8 hyperdrive, it would be very strange if the mk2 didn´t have it.

Now we ended up with a zeppeliner/airship design with 99.9% empty space and silly/awkvard low hullweight just because they couldnt be bothered to implement another hyperdrive module...sigh
 
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