New ship: Panther Clipper

[Doctor Dread]

Such a ship should have the speed and maneuverability of the Cobra Mk V, the cargo hauling capacity of four Panther Clippers, a jump range (when fully laden) twice that of an unladen Mandalay, twenty utility slots, 4 huge hard points and 8 big ones, a class 10 power distributor, and a hull that makes a fully engineered Corvette look like made of paper in comparison.

You are slowly approaching the description of Cobra Mk IV.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

It would make PvP combat something special to watch, provided one could stay awake long enough to see the conclusion...

Provided everyone could buy it for credits on the same day, it could be fascinating and change the face of the game entirely.

He's already playing a game where the Cutter is the biggest cargo hauler, able to outrun everything but a handful of ships, has the biggest shield-tank in the game. Has offensive capability almost on-par with a Corvette. Has the biggest power plant you can get....hmmm did I leave anything out?

That's apparently all fine and we've accepted it for years. But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels. That's where they draw the line....

 

[Rat Catcher]

But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels

Sadly the players sometimes have dual standards, they wish for facets of the game to change for their benefit, but object vociferously if something is asked for that will benefit others not interested in their preferences.

And, oddly, it isn't just the Open Only whatever crowd. (so not taking a direct pop at anyone in particular - but I'm sure that regular contributors to this forum have asked for changes to suit their preferred play many times over the years)

ETA: Curiously, there was a 'request' for a 'special' to benefit miners just a few hours ago on the Frontier discord channel...(because the PCII has something 'special' added, others must have something too!)

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Because the question was stupid, because nobody is doing that. You're being hyperbolic. NOBODY is asking for that here. It just needed to haul more.

You're trying to illustrate absurdity with absurdity, but the problem is I'm not being absurd. My expectations are completely reasonable and well articulated and pretending I'm asking for Lord Vader's personal Star Destroyer in a World War II game is a waste of all of our time.

No, it's not absurd. It's illustrating that balance is in fact something that can be argued and isn't just something to be tossed aside for convenience.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

He's already playing a game where the Cutter is the biggest cargo hauler, able to outrun everything but a handful of ships, has the biggest shield-tank in the game. Has offensive capability almost on-par with a Corvette. Has the biggest power plant you can get....hmmm did I leave anything out?

That's apparently all fine and we've accepted it for years. But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels. That's where they draw the line....

Nerf cutter, I agree. But even still it's not the best at anything besides shield tanking.

It's actually not all fine and I don't want the game to continue in that direction, but hey you didn't ask, you just assumed, and we both know what happens when you assume.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I wasn't doing that and you know I wasn't....

If players don't want a large capacity ship there's a brilliant solution: use another ship or don't fill yours full of stuff. So see? How is that even comparable here?

We've well articulated exactly why we want a large hauler. You and others though never do the same for your position. You just say we're wrong, blurt out "balance" which is a slogan not a explanation, or invoke "P2W" which is just a complaint about monetization in general not feedback about the Panther Clipper.

it sounded like that to me.

and I have said multiple times why not! just because you do not think 1 ship 3x better at a role than any other ship at that role is an issue does not make it a valid worry.

it's the same reason why in let's say a football game I would not want a player in the game who had 100% extra pace over every other player in the game.
because it means that the existence of such a player takes the shine off every other player in the game .... and sure you could bench such a player but knowing he is there just devalues the rest.

or (and some game do do this) but a racing game where 1 car is massively superior than all the others in the garage. sure I could choose to pick an objectively inferior car, but I would feel a chump doing it. A me problem maybe but it also seems FD feels that way

which isn't to say FD are always right. I still think FD were wrong to have black markets show on the map before we find them, or to have it possible to get to Sag A within 24 hours of the game going into gamma. I had hoped that would take months or years, having to build out nav beacons before we could travel using the (at the time) new FSD technology.

but it is what it is.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Tell us you've ignored ALL feedback about Colonization without telling us. Like you aren't even trying at this point. It's borderline trolling to just claim it's because we don't want to fly our ships. That's just being so dismissive....

then request colonisation is improved... but ultimately if FD have decided it should be a group effort to build T2 or T3 stuff then it may not change

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It would make PvP combat something special to watch, provided one could stay awake long enough to see the conclusion...

Provided everyone could buy it for credits on the same day, it could be fascinating and change the face of the game entirely.

just bring back the energy bomb after all it would be optional. oh after 4 months in the ARX store of course.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

He's already playing a game where the Cutter is the biggest cargo hauler, able to outrun everything but a handful of ships, has the biggest shield-tank in the game. Has offensive capability almost on-par with a Corvette. Has the biggest power plant you can get....hmmm did I leave anything out?

That's apparently all fine and we've accepted it for years. But don't DARE ask for something that can haul a few thousand tons of space-pixels. That's where they draw the line....

the cutter has a couple of percent more hauling ability than the T9. the PC is likely to have 50% more hauling ability than the cutter but that's not enough?! you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

the cutter has a couple of percent more hauling ability than the T9. the PC is likely to have 50% more hauling ability than the cutter but that's not enough?! you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

The Cutter also has 28 t less capacity than the T-9 when shielded, is fast but turns like ass when moving, doesn't brake and is generally a chore to fly in anything but a straight line. I rather fly two loads in a T-8 than one in a Cutter. The only real thing it has going for it is the obscene amount of shielding you can achieve. Hardly the best ship in the game. Edit: And certainly far from the most fun ship in the game. YMMV of course.

 

[Rat Catcher]

you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

And I was asking FD for even more because I want to move cargo which usually is offered in 6K batches into safekeeping on my FC, so a refill of 18k which takes around 28 little jaunts in my Cutter might be reduced to 3 or 6 instead, giving me more time to do the things I like more, while having a FC full of (virtually) free Tritium, or maybe Palladium or Gold...

FD decided that the PCII shouldn't be too good, so we get just over 1K, their game, their decisions. Our time...

I'd already decided to abandon Colonisation efforts if the PCII didn't deliver a major boost to cargo capacity. So nothing to change that decision was offered, such is life.

 

[Chroniclerope]

it sounded like that to me.

and I have said multiple times why not! just because you do not think 1 ship 3x better at a role than any other ship at that role is an issue does not make it a valid worry.

it's the same reason why in let's say a football game I would not want a player in the game who had 100% extra pace over every other player in the game.
because it means that the existence of such a player takes the shine off every other player in the game .... and sure you could bench such a player but knowing he is there just devalues the rest.

or (and some game do do this) but a racing game where 1 car is massively superior than all the others in the garage. sure I could choose to pick an objectively inferior car, but I would feel a chump doing it. A me problem maybe but it also seems FD feels that way

which isn't to say FD are always right. I still think FD were wrong to have black markets show on the map before we find them, or to have it possible to get to Sag A within 24 hours of the game going into gamma. I had hoped that would take months or years, having to build out nav beacons before we could travel using the (at the time) new FSD technology.

but it is what it is.

By this argument, everything other than the side winder, hauler and eagle should be removed.

 

[Desirsar]

I'm just waiting to see some time trials run in the ship, specifically undocking from a station, jumping, and landing on a planet. If it's enough of a slug moving in realspace, it may add enough time to each trip that the number of trips it saves isn't all that effective. The Cutter isn't that much faster per trip than the Type 9, but when I run one of each on two accounts, the Cutter always has a significantly larger contribution to construction than the Type 9 does, while delivering 70 less per trip with the setup I use.

 

[Archvillain]

I kind of want the Panther Clipper to be a slug like the T-9. I feel like if you want to pilot a massive cargo hauler, it needs to feel like that. A real oil tanker or super-freighter.

Something that might be nice though, would be if it had a nice high top-speed but this was balanced and weighty by making it take a long time to reach that top speed. Maybe it requires 2-3 successive boosts, or maybe a boost lasts a long time and accelerates more slowly than we're used to. Something a bit fresh and outside our current envelopes, but still weighty and massive

Its agility superpower vs the T9 can be SCO optimization

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

it sounded like that to me.

and I have said multiple times why not! just because you do not think 1 ship 3x better at a role than any other ship at that role is an issue does not make it a valid worry.

it's the same reason why in let's say a football game I would not want a player in the game who had 100% extra pace over every other player in the game.
because it means that the existence of such a player takes the shine off every other player in the game .... and sure you could bench such a player but knowing he is there just devalues the rest.

or (and some game do do this) but a racing game where 1 car is massively superior than all the others in the garage. sure I could choose to pick an objectively inferior car, but I would feel a chump doing it. A me problem maybe but it also seems FD feels that way

which isn't to say FD are always right. I still think FD were wrong to have black markets show on the map before we find them, or to have it possible to get to Sag A within 24 hours of the game going into gamma. I had hoped that would take months or years, having to build out nav beacons before we could travel using the (at the time) new FSD technology.

but it is what it is.

Your analogies seem very flawed because sports has rules based on fairness. But in the "realistic" universe you and others claim you want Elite Dangerous to be set in, there's a sudden overwhelming demand for a large ship that hauls a LOT more tonnage than the existing ones. Zorgon Peterson is under no obligation to be 'fair' to their competition. They're objective is to crush their competition by meeting that demand and selling as many units as the Panther Clipper MKII as possible.

 

[Chroniclerope]

I'm just waiting to see some time trials run in the ship, specifically undocking from a station, jumping, and landing on a planet. If it's enough of a slug moving in realspace, it may add enough time to each trip that the number of trips it saves isn't all that effective. The Cutter isn't that much faster per trip than the Type 9, but when I run one of each on two accounts, the Cutter always has a significantly larger contribution to construction than the Type 9 does, while delivering 70 less per trip with the setup I use.

Exactly my point from earlier. Realspace movement is the biggest factor for colony hauling, not SCO or jump range. So if the PC is also 50% slower at docking maneuvers, the point is moot. If the ship is going to be slow and lumbering to feel like a massive cargo ship, the capacity needs to be much, much higher to avoid being dead on arrival.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

the cutter has a couple of percent more hauling ability than the T9. the PC is likely to have 50% more hauling ability than the cutter but that's not enough?! you are asking FD to throw everything under the bus because you don't like colonisation and want to minimise the time doing it as much as possible and to hell with all other trade.

So much wrong here...

1. No, 50% isn't enough. What can I do to possibly communicate that to you more clearly than I already am?
2. I don't HATE Colonization. Just...ugh! I love colonization. I own 8 systems, I plan to own many many more. It's BUILDING UP those systems that I hate because it's nothing but hundreds and hundreds of A>B>A trips. That's it. The amount of structures we need to build is too high, and the amount of trips each one takes is ABSURD! Like I've been SO consistent with this, do you think it does you a service to misconstrue my position like that?
3. Nothing would be thrown "under the bus". Again, you're just saying things like this without explaining it. Everyone is a billionaire anyway and trade is already immensely profitable. How would a little whip cream on top of this sundae ruin the game? It's just..LOL, it's a comical position.

 

[DjVortex]

I can play this game too though. If you don't want big cargo haulers, don't. If you don't like ships for ARX, don't. If you don't want ships that can haul2-5k tons, don't. It's that simple.

Wasn't it Confucius who said:

"If you don't like doing something, just don't do it."

Or was it the Dalai Lama? Anyway, whoever it was, wise words indeed.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The Cutter also has 28 t less capacity than the T-9 when shielded, is fast but turns like ass when moving, doesn't brake and is generally a chore to fly in anything but a straight line. I rather fly two loads in a T-8 than one in a Cutter. The only real thing it has going for it is the obscene amount of shielding you can achieve. Hardly the best ship in the game. Edit: And certainly far from the most fun ship in the game. YMMV of course.

This is misinformation propaganda being put out by Federation operatives. Who we all know are less skilled and come from sketchy neighborhoods compared to Imperials.

 

[Inscydeus]

Also the looks...

It looks amazing to me. The Corvette is OK, but it just looks like a flattened Anaconda.

No. No. Absolutely not. It has a roll rate equivalent to its pitch roughly at 30 degrees and it is extremely absymal (it’s even worse in supercruise). Like you think the Cutter turns bad, the T9 I’ve seen it described as an arthritic beached whale and I am very inclined to agree to that, experiencing it myself.

I love the feeling of gliding around stars in my Type 9. As unrealistic as it may be, it feels like a truck.

Has anyone else noted the interesting position of the entrance ramp?

Yes and there's been a LOT of feedback about colonization ignoring all other professions and focusing on JUST hauling. However that fell on deaf ears so the last hope was that the PC MKII would alleviate the pain of endless of hours of A>B>A hauling.

Guys..that's just boring. Period. There's no variety, there's no spice to it, it's just tedious empty content. Why don't you expect better? FDEV must love some of you, with zero expectations you can never be disappointed I guess. The perfect customer lol.

I had expectations that it would keep to the spirit of the original ship, and it does. Making it THE colonisation ship would've completely negated any link to the original other than its name, curtailing all aspects of the ship other than hauling capacity. What you're asking for would not be the PC Mk2, it would be the T9 Mk 2 - you're asking for a ship that can only do hauling to alleviate the boredom of hauling when the obvious answer is to just stop doing the thing that bores you. And after waiting ten years for it, I'm really glad FDEV decided against diminishing it to such an extent. It's still the best hauler in the game, it's just that is not all that it is.