Game loses something by not forcing Open play

khaitom · Dec 2, 2014

Cosmos said:
I kinda agree with the OP to a certain extent. One of the problems I see is that I could have found a good trade route, or a nice mining area and things can change without it being clear why. Players not in the open group become part of the background simulation and so it becomes impossible to team up with them or challenge them if I want to claim a resource or a route. Sadly, the mechanics are part of the game design whether we like it or not. Some people think its great others not. Away from certain areas its rare to see players and people not being visible even if they are there takes something away from the dynamic imo.

That's exactly the same as every other instance you aren't in.

Toxic_Waster · Dec 2, 2014

All right. Here comes another proposal. If many wants the ability to change between modes in "order to keep their freedom to play the way they want" why not to create the black hole with the ability to join someone else's solo mode because otherwise you limit let's say my "freedom to play the way I want" and this aggression will not stand... man.

Clifford · Dec 2, 2014

Jarek Storm said:
1. Combat logging was solved by EQ 15 years ago. "You cannot log out while in combat." EDIT: they could even require us to be in a dock to switch if this becomes an issue.

I don't know if FD is ever gong to implement it, but if you read the DDA there was a mention that if you did bad things and got a Bounty on your head you could not leave the Open group, so you were exposed to bounty hunters e.g. could not hide in Solo mode after attacking someone.

For mode-switching, I think its fine to requiring "dock at a station" before switching Solo/Group/Open. I just don't want to see it restricted to "once per day" or "once per lifetime", because I'm not going to spend the time to grind an alt character.

Jarek Storm said:
It's not worth taking peoples' options away from them, especially since that would be a complete bait and switch this close to release, and even more so after release.

View attachment 3257 "FREEEDDOOMMMMM !!!!!!!!!"

Flying Penguin · Dec 2, 2014

Toxic_Waster said:
All right. Here comes another proposal. If many wants the ability to change between modes in "order to keep their freedom to play the way they want" why not to create the black hole with the ability to join someone else's solo mode because otherwise you limit let's say my "freedom to play the way I want" and this aggression will not stand... man.

Well given the chances of you being in the same system as the invaded player are about 1 in 400 billion, why not?

In fact you could just dump the invader into solo and they'd never know the difference....

Jumper · Dec 2, 2014

Flying Penguin said:
Because if you have a job and a family there is only time to grind one commander unless you are content to be stuck in low level ships for all eternity.

Once you have invested time in one mode, the barrier to switching is high. Or perhaps you like grinding in a hauler more than I do?

Oh, I do have job and family. And im happy with my 1-2 hours every now and then.

And maybe if I choose to play solo for whatever reason, I'll create a new Cmdr. Start from the beginning? Fine. Guess how often I did this in Beta and Gamma ;-)

Ikari · Dec 2, 2014

khaitom said:
That's exactly the same as every other instance you aren't in.

You obviously know how the game is constructed so you will be ignored as I was....

Kramster · Dec 2, 2014

Doesn't seem likely to happen really, would require another server for the alternate galaxy.
Not a thing they would accept I think given the reasons for offline mode etc
And it would require two updates instead of one each time an event was injected in

Jarek Storm · Dec 2, 2014

Toxic_Waster said:
All right. Here comes another proposal. If many wants the ability to change between modes in "order to keep their freedom to play the way they want" why not to create the black hole with the ability to join someone else's solo mode because otherwise you limit let's say my "freedom to play the way I want" and this aggression will not stand... man.

That's called Group mode, and you don't even need a singularity!

Toxic_Waster · Dec 2, 2014

Flying Penguin said:
Well given the chances of you being in the same system as the invaded player are about 1 in 400 billion, why not?

The amount of stars and instancing along with 5% insurance payout should eliminate all griefing fuss to begin with

Ikari · Dec 2, 2014

Toxic_Waster said:
The amount of stars and instancing along with 5% insurance payout should eliminate all griefing fuss to begin with

You do understand that also invalidates your point of mode switching too as the chances of those anacondas getting to you are equally remote.

Seonid · Dec 2, 2014

My congratulations to the OP for understanding the difference between "loses" and "looses". The horse however, is still dead.

Flying Penguin · Dec 2, 2014

Jumper said:
Oh, I do have job and family. And im happy with my 1-2 hours every now and then.

And maybe if I choose to play solo for whatever reason, I'll create a new Cmdr. Start from the beginning? Fine. Guess how often I did this in Beta and Gamma ;-)

Well you may be happy but the strength of feeling (on both sides) in this thread suggests you would be in a minority of the people that actually switch between open and solo, usual caveats about inferring population size from forum threads aside

Y2K · Dec 2, 2014

Archaegeo said:
I had a post yesterday asking why use open play, and it turns out the only reason is to gank or be ganked.

But the fact you can advance in the game running solo only, imho, really makes the game lose something.

A lot of the fun of Eve is the fact that the risk is always there, and the level of risk is reflected in the level of reward.

But in ED, you can go do everything with no risk. (Interdiction by NPC's isn't a risk, its easy to avoid).

I really wish you could only advance in Open play, or that Open money/ships/reputation were separate from Solo money/ships/reputation.

Yes, I know some don't want to have to deal with other players, great, there is a solo mode.

But the fact that solo and open are tied together means you can play in complete safety, get your uber ship, then jump into open.

Really feels like the game is losing some of its potential by having a 100% safe mode.

+1 completely agree.

Ikari · Dec 2, 2014

That's it because of this thread I'm taking my fully kitted out Anaconda and 100billion credits into open play to ruin everyone's fun

Jockey79 · Dec 2, 2014

Toxic_Waster said:
The amount of stars and instancing along with 5% insurance payout should eliminate all griefing fuss to begin with

It's not just about the in game value - my real world time has value, and someone else who has been logged in for 5 minutes can wipe out 2 hours mining or an hours trading.

So unless you're going to start paying me an hourly rate (I'll take £12/ph) to be your target, I'll come and go from open play as I want, not as YOU want - this is the point some of us are making, it is not just in game stuff that can be replaced with ease, some people have limited time and forced open profiles or forced PvP can wipe the value of our time and just drive us away.

You want a pure PvP experience, make a PvP group for people to join - the tools are there for you to have what you want, you're just trying to force everyone else in to it.

Robert Maynard · Dec 2, 2014

Toxic_Waster said:
All right. Here comes another proposal. If many wants the ability to change between modes in "order to keep their freedom to play the way they want" why not to create the black hole with the ability to join someone else's solo mode because otherwise you limit let's say my "freedom to play the way I want" and this aggression will not stand... man.

<chuckle> A way for players specifically excluded from another players session to gain access to that session - you couldn't make it up (oh, wait - you did....) - the scope for definitely non-consensual PvP would be massive (if you could find the player that is)....

Seonid · Dec 2, 2014

Archaegeo said:
(Interdiction by NPC's isn't a risk, its easy to avoid).

Interdictions by Players are just as easy to avoid, you are currently playing the game yourself, right?

Toxic_Waster · Dec 2, 2014

Ikari said:
You do understand that also invalidates your point of mode switching too as the chances of those anacondas getting to you are equally remote.

Not really. This goes to the concept of "controlled trade routes in ED". While I agree it's not possible to completely block the routes due to instancing (brilliant idea btw), it's possible to maintain high risk areas where the PVP encounter was eventually unavoidable.

Also regarding your comment of going on and offline. This does not always work in the favor of the victim. When the player disconnects during the combat his ship disappears immediately and he is off the scanner. When he comes back he lands exactly on the same instance with the aggressor allowing him few seconds of advantage before the control of the ship is regained. The best would be to have "the aggression timer" implemented leaving the ship in space for few minutes after the pilot disconnects in case of the combat. This will discourage the deliberate disconnection during the combat.

FX2K · Dec 2, 2014

Toxic_Waster said:
...why not to create the black hole with the ability to join someone else's solo mode ...

Sounds like what they did with Watchdogs..

Toxic_Waster · Dec 2, 2014

Jockey79 said:
It's not just about the in game value - my real world time has value, and someone else who has been logged in for 5 minutes can wipe out 2 hours mining or an hours trading.

So unless you're going to start paying me an hourly rate (I'll take £12/ph) to be your target, I'll come and go from open play as I want, not as YOU want - this is the point some of us are making, it is not just in game stuff that can be replaced with ease, some people have limited time and forced open profiles or forced PvP can wipe the value of our time and just drive us away.

You want a pure PvP experience, make a PvP group for people to join - the tools are there for you to have what you want, you're just trying to force everyone else in to it.

If we're getting into you and me tango here I could say i'm playing the same game as you're. And if you allowed me to destroy in 5 minutes your 1 hour of trading it's as much your fault as mine. If you want pure PVE experience go/join/back/to and do not force everyone else to share the same universe with you because if you do there is no one really to blame.