One Simple suggestion that could nullify the Solo/Open argument AND end the fear of Greifing

[Joe Spivey]

... What are your thoughts on making solo mode not transferrable to open?

Ahhh, the other 'great debate'

In interviews, (in print or on vid), in the Dev Diaries, in comments on this forum and even in Q&A sessions David Braben has always said that they are making the game that they want. One of the things that 'they want' is for people to play the game how they want to. Solo Offline didn't work out for the reason they gave. Solo Online offers the 'you against the machine' kind of experience to those who want it. And for whatever reasons they may have to choose it, be it bad internet, an infirmity, being shy about being beaten by another player, loss of immersion when another player drags them out of 'their experience' against their will or even simply because they don't like people. The reason they want to play solo doesn't matter a tinker's cuss. FDev have given everyone the choice to play that way.

Now I could waste words and my finger joints by going on about the particularr attractions of Open and Group in the same way but let's get to the mode swopping point. It is still all about choice. FDev are giving you the choice to play how you want, when you want and (as much as they can) with who you want. And, despite all the objections that have been raised, having that choice is a good thing. No, it's a great thing! Trying to reduce that choice, or trying to reduce choice in anything, however, is just... wrong. But let's have a look at the objections and see if they actually stand up to scrutiny.

'Hiding' in safe mode and then coming out with a tooled up space ship. Doesn't hold up. I am way way over on the other side of Empire space. I am using one system as home base because it has almost all modules for upgrading. It has a choice of 8 ships but close by there are shipyards with all the missing ships. Within 15ly of this 'base' are 4 systems where I can make half a million cr on a round trip. I haven't seen another player since getting here... well, before actually. Ok then. So I can build my uber-ship right here, right now with time and work. If I meet you in space, you will have no idea whether I got that ship how I just described or by building it being in solo. And what is more, it will make no difference even if you do because... any player can do exactly the same. The playing field is level.

Avoiding blockades or space claimed by an aggressive player. So what? If the solo player wants to play blockade runner to your blockade then he will. If he doesn't then he has that choice too. You won't even know he was there. Important note, there is no player owned space anyway in ED and blockades, like everything in ED, are meant to mainly affect npcs. Remember, PvP, even in this context is not the main strut of the game. It is players influencing the background simulation, not competing against other players.

Solo Players can influence the market/faction and we can't do anything about it! Again, you have the choice to do the same. If you do not want to, then that is fine but you don't get to dictate that solo players have to play by arbitrary rules created by other people who's choice is to play in open. Also though don't forget that players in open are likely having a bigger influence on these things.

Slipping into solo to get out of combat I only include this because a lot of players think you can just slip into solo in combat and escape. Well, you can't.

Do you notice the running thread? It's all about choice. That's how the game was designed and I think it is a great way of running a game.

Anyway, it's way past my medication and Jack Daniel's time so if there are any objections to solo I have missed, pop them up and I'll have a go at debunking them too.

 

[Uueerdo]

So in order to stop those PvP players from bounty hunting, robbing traders and murder civilians, you grief them by making everyone look like a NPC?

an absurd statement. Are you honestly saying you can only have fun if someone else suffers? That is pretty much the definition of griefer.

An absurd statement. He's saying he can only have fun if something is actually challenging. The only thing challenging in this game is interactions with other players.

"Challenging" is what you think of when you read "robbing traders and murder civilians"?

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Ahhh, the other 'great debate'

In interviews, (in print or on vid), in the Dev Diaries, in comments on this forum and even in Q&A sessions David Braben has always said that they are making the game that they want. One of the things that 'they want' is for people to play the game how they want to. Solo Offline didn't work out for the reason they gave. Solo Online offers the 'you against the machine' kind of experience to those who want it. And for whatever reasons they may have to choose it, be it bad internet, an infirmity, being shy about being beaten by another player, loss of immersion when another player drags them out of 'their experience' against their will or even simply because they don't like people. The reason they want to play solo doesn't matter a tinker's cuss. FDev have given everyone the choice to play that way.

Now I could waste words and my finger joints by going on about the particularr attractions of Open and Group in the same way but let's get to the mode swopping point. It is still all about choice. FDev are giving you the choice to play how you want, when you want and (as much as they can) with who you want. And, despite all the objections that have been raised, having that choice is a good thing. No, it's a great thing! Trying to reduce that choice, or trying to reduce choice in anything, however, is just... wrong. But let's have a look at the objections and see if they actually stand up to scrutiny.

'Hiding' in safe mode and then coming out with a tooled up space ship. Doesn't hold up. I am way way over on the other side of Empire space. I am using one system as home base because it has almost all modules for upgrading. It has a choice of 8 ships but close by there are shipyards with all the missing ships. Within 15ly of this 'base' are 4 systems where I can make half a million cr on a round trip. I haven't seen another player since getting here... well, before actually. Ok then. So I can build my uber-ship right here, right now with time and work. If I meet you in space, you will have no idea whether I got that ship how I just described or by building it being in solo. And what is more, it will make no difference even if you do because... any player can do exactly the same. The playing field is level.

Avoiding blockades or space claimed by an aggressive player. So what? If the solo player wants to play blockade runner to your blockade then he will. If he doesn't then he has that choice too. You won't even know he was there. Important note, there is no player owned space anyway in ED and blockades, like everything in ED, are meant to mainly affect npcs. Remember, PvP, even in this context is not the main strut of the game. It is players influencing the background simulation, not competing against other players.

Solo Players can influence the market/faction and we can't do anything about it! Again, you have the choice to do the same. If you do not want to, then that is fine but you don't get to dictate that solo players have to play by arbitrary rules created by other people who's choice is to play in open. Also though don't forget that players in open are likely having a bigger influence on these things.

Slipping into solo to get out of combat I only include this because a lot of players think you can just slip into solo in combat and escape. Well, you can't.

Do you notice the running thread? It's all about choice. That's how the game was designed and I think it is a great way of running a game.

Anyway, it's way past my medication and Jack Daniel's time so if there are any objections to solo I have missed, pop them up and I'll have a go at debunking them too.

As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

 

[giltirn]

As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

 

[giltirn]

As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

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As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

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As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

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As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

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As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

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How can you activate this flag? When? Does it automatically enables if you shoot at another player? Can another player intentionally fly into your line of fire to activate your flag and then proceed to shoot you? Is there a delay? Can a swarm of players take turns to shoot at a target while deactivating it when shot at? What happens of the projectiles? Can you prevent a player from legitmately shooting at a target by standing between the two and magically stop the projectiles?

The more complex the system, the more exploits there are. More systems won't protect you, they'll only make griefing much worse. Which is part of the reason why sandboxes are generally free from griefing.

Why not just make it so your weapons do no damage to other players unless you have the PvP flag active, and if active it must remain active for, say, 10 minutes.

 

[CMDR Reza Malin]

Its not that black and white. Some people, like myself, want the online experience but without the PvP. In WoW parlance this would be referred to as a PvE experience. I get to team up with others and do missions, travel, fight pirates, whatever, but I don't have to fight other players unless I want to.

I respect your comment, and understand what you mean. I even relate to it as i really want some of those co op features as well. I guess the bottom line is i personally don't like the game's half in, half out policy, and all the handholding it provides for people that want it.

I want to play the game in open mode exclusively, i just feel its more dedicated, and more satisfying. For instance, just now i was bounty hunting a nav point in Altair and a guy in a sidey was there doing the same. I could have vaped him in seconds in my asp, but i didn't because im not a , and i had absolutely no reason to. I killed an asp he was trying to kill, not realising he had got it to like 20% hull and felt bad, he messaged me to let him kill one ship. I was like sorry dude ill help you so i weakened the next one and let him kill it. Just a small encounter but one of the reasons i like having other players around. Even if you don't interact, you know you can if you want.

I get its all about personal preference, but for me the fact i know people are flying round trading in solo mode with the laughable enemy AI, while other people are playing in the big melting pot experiment that is open mode just rankles me. Im not even saying im right or justified, it just annoys me. I know that some of them will wait until they have a big beefy ship too, and then they will be like "oh ill go into open mode now".

Just wish people would give the open play a chance and realise its cool, without people trying to kill you every time you drop out of frame shift. By not playing open, it lessens the population and the enjoyment of people that do, for no real reason. I have still yet to be attacked by another player. Ah well.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

I play solo, and I wouldn't have any real problem that. I've only played open the few times my buddy and I have gotten on together. Separating open from solo would just mean that it wouldn't be an issue, because we couldn't. It wouldn't make much difference to me, as what I'd lose would be a few hours a year of game time with a friend that would could also spent playing something else. So, hey, I'm fine with it. What you gain by it, I have no idea, but let at least one solo player be on record as saying that it is fine.

 

[Day]

I honestly have no idea what the complaints are anyways. I have met exactly 1 other person in this game. Half the time I'm in the middle of nowhere exploring/mission running/USS cleaning/whatever. The only time there would even be "griefing" is in the starting systems where there are actually people. If it was even common to see people I'd understand but half the time in open your like "Holy crap a player".


They should definitely make NPCs harder though.

 

[Zenicetus]

As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Here's a reason. Because some days I feel like seeing and interacting with other people in a gameworld, and other days I'm feeling antisocial, or just grumpy after a hard day, and want to relax and be interacting with the gameworld by myself. This game offers a choice, so I'll take it. That combination is ideal for my way of playing games.

This is actually a common design in most serious air combat sims, which are more my gaming background than MMO's (although I did spend a couple of years in WoW). There is a singleplayer mode in sims like Rise of Flight, and a multiplayer mode. Freedom of choice; play the way you want. It's also how WoW works on a PvE server. You can self-flag for PvP or enter Battlegrounds when you feel like it, or just play PvE if you don't. Again, freedom of choice.

If a game like WoW can be massively successful by offering freedom of choice in switching back and forth between PvE and PvP, then I don't think ED will have trouble maintaining enough of a player base.

 

[Joe Spivey]

As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

Wow, I really did strike a nerve didn't I?

FDev are giving you the choice to play how you want, when you want and (as much as they can) with who you want. No matter how much people bleat about it, this is not going to change. This is what Elite Dangerous IS. This is the basic tenet of the game DB and FDev are building. I hope you can enjoy the game knowing this, but I have a feeling that it is going to eat away at you because you, and those like you, cannot get away from what you think is right and get on board with what is happening to gaming. It used to be that games had a high score, three lives and lasted ten minutes, then Elite came along. It used to be that all players had to play one way, in one barrel, with every idiot that logged on, then Elite Dangerous came along. Welcome to the future.

 

[Yabba Addict]

You should turn this into a poll, I'd be pretty interested in the results.

 

[Corpsealot]

I don't have a problem with people wanting to play in Solo mode only, group mode, or open mode. The problem I have is the fact that players have the abiltiy to switch with their current character in and out of these willy-nilly. If you enjoy Solo play, that's awesome. If you enjoy open mode, that's awesome too. But, being able to switch back and forth with no consequence is one of the only things that bother me.

They really should have kept open and solo separate and unique.

 

[kurush]

Do you have a problem that the game also have a black list where I can put people I don't want to see? I think we need to crowd-source the list of known PvPers and put then on ignore list. Everybody is playing open, problem solved My solution also doesn't require any game changes, so it is actually better.

 

[Cidcaldensfey]

Wow, I really did strike a nerve didn't I?

FDev are giving you the choice to play how you want, when you want and (as much as they can) with who you want. No matter how much people bleat about it, this is not going to change. This is what Elite Dangerous IS. This is the basic tenet of the game DB and FDev are building. I hope you can enjoy the game knowing this, but I have a feeling that it is going to eat away at you because you, and those like you, cannot get away from what you think is right and get on board with what is happening to gaming. It used to be that games had a high score, three lives and lasted ten minutes, then Elite came along. It used to be that all players had to play one way, in one barrel, with every idiot that logged on, then Elite Dangerous came along. Welcome to the future.

Haha, Joe, still at it. Hide behind FD because you know you're wrong. If they wanted you to be able to play the game your way they would've split the server. One server for people who want rubber-rounded edges and another server for people who really don't care and aren't scared. But instead, they made a game where people like you can hide in your 400 billion star solo game yet still screw with us who are playing open.

 

[rparker1866]

why do you care if some one chooses to play solo. I don't care if you dont

 

[Joe Spivey]

Haha, Joe, still at it. Hide behind FD because you know you're wrong. If they wanted you to be able to play the game your way they would've split the server. One server for people who want rubber-rounded edges and another server for people who really don't care and aren't scared. But instead, they made a game where people like you can hide in your 400 billion star solo game yet still screw with us who are playing open.

Except that I have played predominantly in open since I started playing in PBeta... go figure. Oh, and where is the logic in saying that I am 'hiding behind FD' when I am just quoting the FD line, are they wrong too? You really need to sort your arguments out before posting.

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You should turn this into a poll, I'd be pretty interested in the results.

This topic has been a poll several times, always comes out the same way. Do a search for it and see.

 

[Amaze]

As i thought people love to bang on about how much they love solo, how grumpy they are, how they don't want to talk to other players blah blah blah. If it was that important to solo players, then why would they object to having to have a seperate commander for open mode? Should they even bother to want it, as the majority of solo advocates i have seen so far state they would have no need for it.

Unless of course, people just want to hide in solo, scared of mythical non existing boogeymen until they have more powerful gear, then turn up in open mode like some kind of trading legends?

The hypocrisy is blinding here. You want solo, fine have solo. We will have open. If you want to take a step into the big bad world of open, restart, and take the same but arguably small risks of everyone else who plays open from the start.

Or should open mode just be populated with people flying pythons or anacondas because they feel 'ready' now, while they do all their trading in type 7 or 9's in solo mode to make their money? What a joke.

The playing field is not level Joe. Someone could turn up in your system in a decked out python and turf you out, even if the chances are small. In solo, there is no chance of that happening. All your posts have been decent up to now, your last one, is just . Clearly hit a nerve, with the solo/open swapping. Guess more people like it that way than i thought.

You didn't debunk anything, so maybe lay off the Jack. Im not saying get rid of solo mode. Im saying you should have to make a separate commander to enter open mode, and a separate commander for solo.

I wanted separate commander and also a separate universe for single play.
FDEV did not want that and also dropped offline.

I doubt this is ever going to change now.

 

[UnknownXV]

Making the game feel even more lonely than it does now. I have very little interest in interacting with the code in my computer, I only care about affecting and interacting with other people.

 

[Alatar]

Since the new thread was closed: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93254 I'll just post what I was about to post here:

....


Players being able to switch between the two while using the same save and being able to affect the same universe from both is one of the worst design decisions ever made in any game imo.


The problem stems from the fact that the choice FD made is inherently anti-emergent gameplay. And emergent gameplay is what games like elite are supposed to be about.


The choice by FD incentivizes everyone who is trading, exploring or doing anything outside of bounty hunting / pirating to play in solo mode and then switch to open for bounties/pirating. This means that for the most part players are going to do what's in their best interest (yours truly included) and make most of their money in solo because it's faster, safer, etc. meaning that solo is more profitable for most things (no queues, no player pirates etc. to worry about). This means that the playerbases of both modes are somewhat similar and those clashes between players of different roles which are the basis of emergent gameplay don't really happen (or happen way less often).


Being able to switch between the two and both affecting the same universe also means that emergent gameplay like blockades formed by players can't really be done at all (it's easy to circumvent anything like this). It also mostly rules out any future gameplay that would be based on changing the universe in any meaningful way outside of some progress bars.


In the end I don't personally understand why the choice to switch between the two using the same save was made. One would think that separate commanders and universes for both would have been the best idea when you consider how detrimental the alternative is to the actual gameplay and atmosphere of the game.


Same save and universe in both is pretty much akin to an fps game that let's the player disable all snipers for the simple reason that he doesn't like them. But still let's the guy join the same server and gain higher ranks on the server.


What's done is done though, there really isn't any changing it anymore. That said I'd be thrilled if FD realized that it's a bad idea to incentive different "professions" to play in different modes. This could easily be fixed by creating extra incentives for everyone to play in open. Because in the end that's what everyone should want, a universe where all "professions" are represented and doing their thing.


The best way to go from here is just to balance the game in a way that let's everyone have a good reason to stay in open so we can get even some of that emergent gameplay, even if some emergent stuff like blockades will never happen.

 

[Bigcheese]

Alatar is exactly right.

Excellent post.