The no AI has been bugging me for a long time and I couldn't put my finger on it as to why .. then last night I was watching Dune / Children of Dune and reading around it whilst it was playing, and then I stumbled across something - ED choice of no AI is a blatant rip off from Herberts books. In the future there is a mass uprising against AI and effectively it's banned ... sounds familiar huh ?! That's why in Dune they have Mentats (human machines) rather than computers ...
Space Creatures
- Thread starter azdour
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The no AI has been bugging me for a long time and I couldn't put my finger on it as to why .. then last night I was watching Dune / Children of Dune and reading around it whilst it was playing, and then I stumbled across something - ED choice of no AI is a blatant rip off from Herberts books. In the future there is a mass uprising against AI and effectively it's banned ... sounds familiar huh ?! That's why in Dune they have Mentats (human machines) rather than computers ...
Please tell me I got the wrong end of the stick and you were describing the Dune backstory here. No way would a galaxy-wide ban on AI stick, so players will intuitively feel a disconnect. FD should be going for the "it's impossible" backstory rather than the "they enslaved us for 1,000 years" one.
Much as I love Dune, it's not something that anyone should use as an example of well thought out sci-fi. On a different note, your post probably puts to rest one theory I'd had about the Founder's system being a Oriental-Arab concatenation along the lines of Zensunni
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Please tell me I got the wrong end of the stick and you were describing the Dune backstory here. No way would a galaxy-wide ban on AI stick, so players will intuitively feel a disconnect. FD should be going for the "it's impossible" backstory rather than the "they enslaved us for 1,000 years" one.
Much as I love Dune, it's not something that anyone should use as an example of well thought out sci-fi. On a different note, your post probably puts to rest one theory I'd had about the Founder's system being a Oriental-Arab concatenation along the lines of Zensunni
Well, the AI in Elite is indeed "banned". How successful that is is another question altogether...
Watch this fiction diary with Michael (8:30 mark):
http://youtu.be/O6z5OK8J5pg
Cool Space Whale in the top corner too that appears to be hungry!
Very disturbing and . . . fascinating. Those 4 Udders, are they mk IIs?
I don't think so, it seems more likely to me to be Milk MkIVs?
As for the topic, I am sure Frontier will put in lots of interesting space creatures into the game, especially so once planetary landings are in the game. After all, they do have experience of creating really life like creatures like what you find in Kinectimals.
Apologies to a "certain forum member" for posting that video, but I just had too.....
Well, the AI in Elite is indeed "banned". How successful that is is another question altogether...
Watch this fiction diary with Michael (8:30 mark):
http://youtu.be/O6z5OK8J5pg
Yea... to be fair, most Scifie franchises do/did that in one way or the other, even before Skynet.
...BSG, EVE, Mass Effect, Nexus, etc. Having the option to bring those "rogue AI's" back one day as a potential enemy is just to convenient of an opportunity for a writer to pass, I guess.Then again... maybe they will return with intention to live in peace with the humans? That would be interesting...
Please tell me I got the wrong end of the stick and you were describing the Dune backstory here. No way would a galaxy-wide ban on AI stick, so players will intuitively feel a disconnect. FD should be going for the "it's impossible" backstory rather than the "they enslaved us for 1,000 years" one.
Much as I love Dune, it's not something that anyone should use as an example of well thought out sci-fi. On a different note, your post probably puts to rest one theory I'd had about the Founder's system being a Oriental-Arab concatenation along the lines of Zensunni
(a) My post was about Dune's ban on AI throughout the galaxy. It struck a cord as being familiar as ED also has a ban on AI, but not to the same degree. I just wondered if DB was fan of the series.
(b) Dune was a well thought out sci-fi book in my opinion so you will have to expand as to why you think not. In Dune, without the aid of computers mankind is forced to evolve in a different direction - Mentats (human computers) and Bene Gesserit (psionic users) were the natural step forward. On a related note we, with the advances in modern technology have changed our future - it's no longer survival of the fittest which will stagnate our own evolution as a species.
(c) Founders system name has nothing to do with Dune
As long as there is a rational explanation as to why they are there then continuity will be maintained.
The space critters that are disturbed during mining were not - they seem, illogical to be frank and its why I personally will not mine.
Very true Liqua. I wouldn't want to get the feeling they were just "tacked" into the game.
Perhaps, but the galaxy being as big as it is, surely there is some room for the weird and the wonderful somewhere out there, but like you say, you can choose not to mine if that isn't your thing to avoid them. Mind you, didn't Dan Davies say "Most are hostile, a few can become valuable resources themselves"? Perhaps it might be lucrative to investigate the creatures after all, although I guess it depends on what and how valuable these resources are.
Right... more stones for us then.
I agree though, there could be any number of reasons for lifeforms to live inside/of the minerals of an asteroid... it's not scientifically impossible.
Computer technology in Dune was taboo because of the great machine jihad. Humanity had been enslaved by mighty machine minds. superfast computing was required for hyperspace travel, but the spacing guild could fold space side-stepping the whole issue.
Though the anti-computer attitude was only explained more fully in derivative works of the original Dune trilogy.
I'm totally pro space-life, as long as there are minimal energy and nutritional requirements that are being met.
I'm not counting energy-beings as life forms, those are ghosts and thus totaly unrealistic in this universe. outofdimension manifestations could take any form depending on what the creatives come up with though.
Though the anti-computer attitude was only explained more fully in derivative works of the original Dune trilogy.
I'm totally pro space-life, as long as there are minimal energy and nutritional requirements that are being met.
I'm not counting energy-beings as life forms, those are ghosts and thus totaly unrealistic in this universe. outofdimension manifestations could take any form depending on what the creatives come up with though.
Been a while, but IIRC technically anyone could fold space using a hyperspace engine, but only with a guild navigator (& something else later) could you be sure of not hitting a star etc. en route. AIs didn't have access to the hyperspace engine and anyway weren't prescient, so they'd be in the same boat as plain old humans.
Agreed - there is room for weird things, but space critters, beings that can survive and function in 0K environments ? Not likely ...
Ahh .. "the slow blade penetrates the shield" - A very insightful development. Yes - the exploding component of the two coming together (lasgun that is) seems odd, but plausible all the same
Even if asteroid life is possible, unless it's common it would be astronomically unlikely we'd ever find an example anyway. Also, is the idea that they've evolved independently on zillions of asteroids throughout the universe? Or do they propel themselves through empty space and even cross interstellar distances?
There are many environments I could believe in finding critters, from puffballs floating in the atmosphere of gas giants, to fishlikes swimming in the methane seas on Titan. Even asteroids, I could believe might harbour bacteria, or a simple photosynthesiser or two, but nothing substantial. I hope that the asteroid shrimp idea gets put by the wayside, though.
There are many environments I could believe in finding critters, from puffballs floating in the atmosphere of gas giants, to fishlikes swimming in the methane seas on Titan. Even asteroids, I could believe might harbour bacteria, or a simple photosynthesiser or two, but nothing substantial. I hope that the asteroid shrimp idea gets put by the wayside, though.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I fully appreciate how Elite is supposed to be more grounded in hard sci fi than a lot of other titles, but as something that is included in the game to spice up an otherwise low intensity occupation I fully support it. As has been said it should be rare but also a threat.
I doubt Frontier will squander their geek cred by including a few impossible creatures. It's a game after all.
I doubt Frontier will squander their geek cred by including a few impossible creatures. It's a game after all.
I come down on the side of 'no void creatures' because they're implausible, to me. A few microbes feeding off an asteroid's resources, fair enough - but they'd be largely undetectable and would just be part of what was scooped up, at worst causing some contamination, not a space fight.
Even were they to exist, I can't see how it would be much of a fight. A base intelligence creature - ie, something that is driven almost purely by instinct, would take one shot from a laser and GTFO, it would hardly decide to fight back to the death. Animals have a survival instinct first and foremost.
All that said though, I do say a big yes to having native species on worlds with atmospheres and the chance for fully fledged ecosystems to have developed.
Even were they to exist, I can't see how it would be much of a fight. A base intelligence creature - ie, something that is driven almost purely by instinct, would take one shot from a laser and GTFO, it would hardly decide to fight back to the death. Animals have a survival instinct first and foremost.
All that said though, I do say a big yes to having native species on worlds with atmospheres and the chance for fully fledged ecosystems to have developed.
Wasn't the original game filled with "Harmless Furry Lobsters" and the like? Didn't seem like they were going for plausibility!
Yeah, but it's already been confirmed that those creatures won't be making it on the grounds that they were silly silly silly. Void creatures are only separated from what was in Elite by one degree of silliness. They're silly silly. I'm kind of hoping Elite: Dangerous doesn't go much beyond silly.
I still find the notion of sentient life in outer space less plausible (and thus, sillier)... why couldn't there be forms of primitive, giant, silicon based worms living in asteroids? Or florescent manta ray like creatures, living in and off gas clouds?
The only forms of life we really know/think of when we are talking about "life", live on our planet, and thus are specialized to survive only here... evolution could, theoretically start everywhere, where the conditions are right, and go in almost any direction from there...
Is it implausible? Sure... is it impossible? Not really.
Well, there could - but how do they get there? And even if there were, what harm could they possibly be to a ship that chooses to mine that asteroid - at best, it would be blasted into space where presumably, it wouldn't be able affect its own direction of movement, and wouldn't have anything to feed on, it would just become worm meat.
I could buy into them being able to exist by feeding on the gas and perhaps excreting jets of processed gas to be able to 'swim' in 0g - but again, how do they get there in the first place and evolve? And what kind of threat would they realistically present such as to be worth including as an encounter?
evolution should theoretically happen wherever there is life, but as far as we know, any kind of complex life requires water (or at least some liquid) as a medium to mix things up in and get started. Water/liquid in turn afaik requires gravity to hold it together.
