Maybe. Right now it's the only dangerous ship and it's getting nerfed. So far, FDEV hasn't had a good record with nerfing, they tend to way over correct in obscenely complicated ways. Look at how your gimballed weapons dance around like a drunk uncle at a wedding, when they could have just tightened up the firing arc to balance them and never implemented that insane feature. I predict the somewhat threatening python will be forever neutered via the nerf bat when they "balance" it. What they should do is just make the viper and eagle a hair faster and a hair more agile. That way thw python is still a serious threat to all the other ships but the superiority fighters can be a serious threat to it...balance achieved...interesting emergent gameplay acieved...reasons to fly other ships achieved
Fer de lance and expected python nerf
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Maybe. Right now it's the only dangerous ship and it's getting nerfed. So far, FDEV hasn't had a good record with nerfing, they tend to way over correct in obscenely complicated ways. Look at how your gimballed weapons dance around like a drunk uncle at a wedding, when they could have just tightened up the firing arc to balance them and never implemented that insane feature. I predict the somewhat threatening python will be forever neutered via the nerf bat when they "balance" it. What they should do is just make the viper and eagle a hair faster and a hair more agile. That way thw python is still a serious threat to all the other ships but the superiority fighters can be a serious threat to it...balance achieved...interesting emergent gameplay acieved...reasons to fly other ships achieved
Its the western mentality to "Balance/nerf" everything that gets remotely overused (it's not like we have a choice either... theres likes only 10 ships and most of them are trading oriented).... I for one,will sell the python the second the nerf hits,for 57+100mil in upgrades, it wont be worth it anymore.They are also trying to cater to the casuals who will probably never get a python by "balancing" (making them less appealing) thus making the smaller ships look more viable to anyone who isn't willing to grind the cash for a python(Since you know.... they apparently want a ship not costing even a fraction to be toe to toe with a ship that should outclass it in every single way)
nerfs need a nerf.
nerfs need a nerf.
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It is the best trader for this money, being of medium size it has a very important advantage - being able to land at the outpost. Class 3 shields are enough to protect it from scratch damage during landings or minor collisions giving it the ability to carry 284t of cargo. The only ships that can carry more are T9 and Anaconda both limited to the large stations and priced much higher.
And as it was mentioned earlier Python was not meant to be a fighter:
Then its shield could have easily stayed as strong as it is with the nerf to mobility, as with the changes it would need it more then ever. Its not like the a viper cannot down its shields as it is right now. If the python is not none stop boosting as it is, then it cant turn fast enough for the life of it. Since its none stop boosting, less pips into system. A6 shields are going to become mandatory to make this ship serviceable in a fight. A simple change to how the shield strength scales with grade could have solved its extreme tank if it was really needed.
Top speed was totally un-needed to change to such a degree. Its not that fast of a ship to begin with. Killing off 70 m\ps is not the answer in addition to its turn rates.
In addition to the changes to shield cells on top of the slash fest. A5 cells can barely fill over a ring currently, A6 are not much better. This is either going to get worse all around, or two A6 will become mandatory. That would kill its role as a trader, so its out of the question.
What we have is a slash to the ship across the board, turning all of its current strong points into something worse then the Anaconda all around, with nothing planned anytime soon to replace it as a combat ship for its size and price range. Guess I should start grinding out the 200 million to make the Anaconda serviceable.
So what if its hard points are good if you cant turn to hit anything or take enough damage to complete a turn? May as well slash the class 3's while we are at it. The ship is going to become a dedicated trader and not much else, witch is totally ironic considering some 17 million later(About a days worth of trade in a 7) the type 9 invalidates it. Again so what if you cannot land on medium pads or defend your self nearly as well? Type 9 does not need either of those things.
The Viper and Asp did not get hit nearly as hard as what the Python is about to go through.
Why play to fight in these big ships when they are all bad at everything outside of trading? Adding more small fighters is not going to change the fact that the game dies off for progression as a bounty hunter once you hit the Asp.
Yes the Python is supposed to be a trader, but bloody hell give us a warship to work with instead of these heavy traders and super haulers already. Adding another variety of Cobra is not gonna cut it.
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With this I agree. However, I have a certain explanation about how are they looking for the balance - they make something too good and follow the discussions and criticism, then they nerf it too harsh and listen to the opinions again. Then they buff it. This is exactly what was done with gimballed weapons.
Anyway, I think it is wrong to say that Python is not going to be dangerous after the changes before we are able to try it out.
Please provide a link to a shield cell modifications? I've searched for any indication on that matter but was not able to find anything.
As it was already stated earlier in this thread by Mike Evans, Python's shields were much stronger than intended.
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I know it's unlikely that anyone will listen, but my advice right now would be to wait until the changes are in-game, and then let the devs know what you think.
Right now, before anyone's even had a chance to try out the revised Python, shouting about the changes isn't going to achieve anything.
Right now, before anyone's even had a chance to try out the revised Python, shouting about the changes isn't going to achieve anything.
Fair enough. But mike Evans himself said it was a large ship...not a small so if it's a trader and at its price point should sit between a t7 and a t9...Mission accomplished...if it's a medium sized ship it's off the chains so sure nerf it, if it's a trade ship then I misunderstood it's role and nerf it...when are we getting the vulture, did he say? I think I missed that post
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I disagree 100%, once the changes are in its much harder to get them to change course; prevention always beats reaction
This post absolutely made my day. Thanks, man!
With this I agree. However, I have a certain explanation about how are they looking for the balance - they make something too good and follow the discussions and criticism, then they nerf it too harsh and listen to the opinions again. Then they buff it. This is exactly what was done with gimballed weapons.
Anyway, I think it is wrong to say that Python is not going to be dangerous after the changes before we are able to try it out.
Please provide a link to a shield cell modifications? I've searched for any indication on that matter but was not able to find anything.
As it was already stated earlier in this thread by Mike Evans, Python's shields were much stronger than intended.
The trial and error approach you speak of smacks of poor planning. Measure twice cut once. They should only have to make small changes at this point, it completely Change a ship because it's so overpowered...when they did this with gimballed I was worried, the fact they are still balancing by trial and error a month after release is frightening...do they even know what they want the ships to do before they make them?
they will have longer spool time, cost more, use more power and boost less, iirc. couldn't find the link.
postmen, surgeons, pilots... they all make mistakes, they are human.
now thinking about game developers as humans is a bit far fetched, i know
However, this might not allow to find the right balance that efficiently. It is not exactly measure thrice - cut once. They are looking for a balance by finding the average of the extreme cases, which means that the second change leads to the final result.
If Python is nerfed slightly then there might still be ideas to nerf it several time more, until it is going to be slightly buffed. The latter would require more iterations, more changes, more time and will increase the chances to make an error. The former seems more efficient.
Only if you assume that you're preventing something bad. Right now, we do not have sufficient understanding of the game to make that assumption. Mike already mentioned earlier in the thread that they're leaving more changes on the table should this not work out.
What I find funniest is that two of the hottest topics right now are people furiously opposing insurance warnings because they'd make the game too easy, and people incensed that FD might make their ships a little less powerful.
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postmen, surgeons, pilots... they all make mistakes, they are human.
now thinking about game developers as humans is a bit far fetched, i know
I am a doctor, if I make a mistake a lot worse happens then people arguing on a forum...so not the best analogy; also the example stands, if I take a patient to surgery more than once for the same issue I will probably get sued, maybe my standards are too high but if I alone can diagnose, treat and sugically remove a potentially life threatening cancer, shouldn't an entire team be able to come up with a solution to balancing there game that isn't based on trial and error. And really, we are balancing ships because the python is "the ship to rule them all" when the professions are so off balance, trading right now is like a team of pythons against the cobra that Is bounty hunting or smuggling or piracy and the sidewinder that is expooration...but that isn't getting addressed...no let's nerf the python...red alert some people are whining that the Python is too tough... nerf it!
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Y'all are incredible. Of course the python won't be able to turn as fast as it does now, it's ridiculous. It's not even supposed to be a full combat ship, how are you supposed to balance around that?
Fair enough...so why was it implemented with such strong shields, so many large weapons and such a fast turning rate if it wasn't meant for combat? How did it get implented in such an upside down state
You can answer that question yourself. Just think about how balanced complex games are in general when they come out. If you can't find the answer yourself I hope I'll not end under you knife.
Devs can easily modify anything in the game, however, it is always an unknown on how the players are going to accept the changes. We can have a slightly different representation of the balancing in comparison to the one that devs have. They make changes according to their ideas of how this should be done and there is always going to be more than 1 change to balance in right. Change - listen to opinions, change - listen.
It is much easier to find the happy medium basing on 2 extreme cases.
Having been directly involved in development and IT testing programs I can attest to how much can slip though. Internal testing is very procedural and very focused, it's actually very easy to overlook unintended consequences in complex systems, especially when dealing with user bases. People are fabulously good at not doing what you expect.
Trial and error is actually a fantastic way to perfect, balance and get things right. There's nothing quite like implementing something and seeing how it turns out. It's very common way of working in design and the arts, as there are practically no real risks involved. My wife is a painter, she will routinely paint over the same canvas multiple time until she gets the desired results.
This is very different form surgery, no one's going to die on the table if they make a mistake, and most there's some gamer rage, potential some lost revenue. But done correctly your end product is much better for it, and long term results are better.
i put all my faith in the Fer-de-lance, and i really hope that as a fighter, it will be "slightly" stronger than a multi purpose ship of the same size/price
or even better, i hope that it will be classified as a multi-purpose ship, that way it will have the right to be good, and the 100% guarantee to never be smashed by the Nerf hammer
or even better, i hope that it will be classified as a multi-purpose ship, that way it will have the right to be good, and the 100% guarantee to never be smashed by the Nerf hammer
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