We can cry however we want, the Python nerf is coming. Hopefully they see light and the speed got buffed afterwards, but in the mean time the nerf does nothing to its viability as a trading ship (which is so good it's broken)
FD just Nuked loads of trade routes!
- Thread starter tim74uk
- Start date
We can cry however we want, the Python nerf is coming. Hopefully they see light and the speed got buffed afterwards, but in the mean time the nerf does nothing to its viability as a trading ship (which is so good it's broken)
As a Trader I'm happy that has been fixed. It was really weird how prices at some point just didn't get affected at all, thats not really how trading is supposed to work.
I haven't read every page of this thread, but I would like to chime in, if I may. I started at go-live, and didn't even know of the game before that. So I know I am no super early alpha backer, but i'd still like to give my opinions.
Personally, I felt that trading was totally broken before. Early on, I used a trade calculator a couple of times to try and earn some easier money... but after a couple nights doing it, I started to feel like I was kind of exploiting and ruining my own experience. I decided to stop doing it. Since then, I have made all my money by other means. I have an "A" decked out viper, and about 5 million in the bank. (Pretty modest, I would say at this point) it just didn't feel right running routes posted up on some website.. i WANTED (and still do want), to do my OWN routes, even after some hard work, and make a relatively decent profit.
So last night, after taking a long time off from trading altogether, I decide that I want to take an honest self stab at finding my own trading. (even if it ends up being some route I could have looked up in 5 minutes on some website) I decide to fly my viper around to all kinds of stations around where I am, examine in detail all the export/import guides in the galaxy map for the higher ticket items, flew to a dozen systems, and a dozen or more stations, and have a few pages of notepad papers filled out with a pen, all the numbers I found in commodities. And after all my hard work, I couldn't really find anything more than 300ish or 400ish per ton, one way. It just got to be TOO much with a pen and a paper, and flying EVERYwhere trying to establish my very own reasonably profitable trade route. I would find one place selling a metal with high supply... travel to a few stations where it was supposed to be exported to.. only to find that place buying for less money, or not at all. Sometimes I would find a place buying with a supposed "demand" for the item.. but for the same price, maybe 1, 2,3 or 400 more credits. meh.
After 3 hours of this.. I gave up and went to bed. I can't develop my own honest trade routes and keep my sanity with how the game is currently designed. There NEEDS to be in-game tools to track and record prices of the stations you visit, and then have a way to cross reference them later. You know... a "super advanced year 3301 technology", I will give the ficticious name of "spreadsheet", or maybe "Access Database"... doesn't seem to much to ask considering it's the year 3301 and we can travel 100x the speed of light. Taking screen shots of trade screens, using pen and paper, or typing them all out on a separate computer... is just... . It just seems totally silly.
So for the last couple nights out of a little frustration, I have gone back to doing the only thing I can to make money on my own without looking up some online calculator or something (i don't follow any of that stuff, I really just play the game.. no reddit, no calculators, etc).. and that is find the resource extraction area in my vicinity that is spawning the best pirate ships (usually cobras). In an hour I can kill enough cobras to make about 150-180k... usually I run out of ammo and have to go back to the station, where i then feel like logging out.
I DON'T want an easy game by any stretch... I love having to fend and figure stuff out on my own.. but something isn't working here. I saw a screenshot of a guy in an Anaconda, with a BILLION credits in the bank, and he is an elite trader. Are you telling me this guy found, on his own, some magical route while naturally playing the game? I just don't think so. I feel sorry for the guy that his entire existence in ED so far, has been looking up some posted "Best" trade route on some website somewhere, for some station pair somewhere the universe... and did 1000 trips for WEEKS on end, just to get the biggest ship and the elite trader status. Now where does he go?
My point? trading actually sucks. Even for you guys that loved your gifted/care-bear shared trade routes. As awesome as it is to make 2200/t per trip... that SUCKS! I'd much rather it be reasonable to find my own routes, and make considerably less. 1500 round trip? 1200 round trip? So maybe this fix will be good, albeit a little painful. Once we get in-game tools to track prices. AND... don't be so eager for end game stuff, you might find it totally rewarding to do it all on your own. You will find a good route, and keep it to yourself
. I will get my Anaconda a year from now, or two, and it will feel even better having reached it strictly in-game.
my $.03.
(p.s. or maybe I am just missing some fundamental piece of the game in regards to trading? I can't find crap on my own)
Personally, I felt that trading was totally broken before. Early on, I used a trade calculator a couple of times to try and earn some easier money... but after a couple nights doing it, I started to feel like I was kind of exploiting and ruining my own experience. I decided to stop doing it. Since then, I have made all my money by other means. I have an "A" decked out viper, and about 5 million in the bank. (Pretty modest, I would say at this point) it just didn't feel right running routes posted up on some website.. i WANTED (and still do want), to do my OWN routes, even after some hard work, and make a relatively decent profit.
So last night, after taking a long time off from trading altogether, I decide that I want to take an honest self stab at finding my own trading. (even if it ends up being some route I could have looked up in 5 minutes on some website) I decide to fly my viper around to all kinds of stations around where I am, examine in detail all the export/import guides in the galaxy map for the higher ticket items, flew to a dozen systems, and a dozen or more stations, and have a few pages of notepad papers filled out with a pen, all the numbers I found in commodities. And after all my hard work, I couldn't really find anything more than 300ish or 400ish per ton, one way. It just got to be TOO much with a pen and a paper, and flying EVERYwhere trying to establish my very own reasonably profitable trade route. I would find one place selling a metal with high supply... travel to a few stations where it was supposed to be exported to.. only to find that place buying for less money, or not at all. Sometimes I would find a place buying with a supposed "demand" for the item.. but for the same price, maybe 1, 2,3 or 400 more credits. meh.
After 3 hours of this.. I gave up and went to bed. I can't develop my own honest trade routes and keep my sanity with how the game is currently designed. There NEEDS to be in-game tools to track and record prices of the stations you visit, and then have a way to cross reference them later. You know... a "super advanced year 3301 technology", I will give the ficticious name of "spreadsheet", or maybe "Access Database"... doesn't seem to much to ask considering it's the year 3301 and we can travel 100x the speed of light. Taking screen shots of trade screens, using pen and paper, or typing them all out on a separate computer... is just... . It just seems totally silly.
So for the last couple nights out of a little frustration, I have gone back to doing the only thing I can to make money on my own without looking up some online calculator or something (i don't follow any of that stuff, I really just play the game.. no reddit, no calculators, etc).. and that is find the resource extraction area in my vicinity that is spawning the best pirate ships (usually cobras). In an hour I can kill enough cobras to make about 150-180k... usually I run out of ammo and have to go back to the station, where i then feel like logging out.
I DON'T want an easy game by any stretch... I love having to fend and figure stuff out on my own.. but something isn't working here. I saw a screenshot of a guy in an Anaconda, with a BILLION credits in the bank, and he is an elite trader. Are you telling me this guy found, on his own, some magical route while naturally playing the game? I just don't think so. I feel sorry for the guy that his entire existence in ED so far, has been looking up some posted "Best" trade route on some website somewhere, for some station pair somewhere the universe... and did 1000 trips for WEEKS on end, just to get the biggest ship and the elite trader status. Now where does he go?
My point? trading actually sucks. Even for you guys that loved your gifted/care-bear shared trade routes. As awesome as it is to make 2200/t per trip... that SUCKS! I'd much rather it be reasonable to find my own routes, and make considerably less. 1500 round trip? 1200 round trip? So maybe this fix will be good, albeit a little painful. Once we get in-game tools to track prices. AND... don't be so eager for end game stuff, you might find it totally rewarding to do it all on your own. You will find a good route, and keep it to yourself
. I will get my Anaconda a year from now, or two, and it will feel even better having reached it strictly in-game.my $.03.
(p.s. or maybe I am just missing some fundamental piece of the game in regards to trading? I can't find crap on my own)
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The changes to trade make sense but only if the in-game trade tools work. The trade routes in the galaxy map are just unreliable and the 'exported to/imported from' info is often inaccurate. Even when it's right it gives no indication of potential profit or loss. If a station has a low demand for a commodity it will still be tagged as importing that commodity and a trade link will show on the galaxy map but you could still make a loss if you bought at medium prices.
I've also noticed that the price paid changes when you show up with a full load. Empty I am shown one price for a commodity. SO I go get a load and bring it back but now I am paid a completely different (lower) price. Trading is now just a matter of luck and guesswork.
I've also noticed that the price paid changes when you show up with a full load. Empty I am shown one price for a commodity. SO I go get a load and bring it back but now I am paid a completely different (lower) price. Trading is now just a matter of luck and guesswork.
I'm sure they said that the background simulation was not in beta 1.1 if thats what the op is talking about?
Agreed, they fixed the supply issues now they need to fix the trade data, and hopefully give more tools for trading.
i don't know about you but im still able to make 95000 credits on one trip return trip only carries 29500 though.
i have noticed if i run just these two continuously for two hours i will earn less because im flooding both markets. what ya need to do is balance your trade out. have one cash cow for the new ship and the rest for upgrading your current ride. wish this game let us split our profits into separate holding pens so i wouldn't have to do it manually.
i have noticed if i run just these two continuously for two hours i will earn less because im flooding both markets. what ya need to do is balance your trade out. have one cash cow for the new ship and the rest for upgrading your current ride. wish this game let us split our profits into separate holding pens so i wouldn't have to do it manually.
Seeing as how you can completely dry out a station in 3 or 4 runs, that hardly seems "fixed". Thats more a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Changes like that can go in tandum with giving is better tools. Not by first nuking it from orbit and then seeing what they can do to improve it a bit (which is most likely no earlier than 1.2, since 1.1 is about MP).
I'm doing ok. Got a non cheating trade tool Cmdr's Log. Which also works with Elite OCR. I've been trading a month doing lucrative hauling missions and trading at those places at teh same time. Rarely do the same route more than twice unless I need a quick buck. Now I have about 100 systems logged in a space of about 40sq lightyears around the Alioth Alliance capitol. And I'm doing well. If I really want a boring grindy trade route I have a 230,000cr one for my 80t Asp. And over a dozen close to 200k.
CMDR's Log https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=96350
Elite OCR https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68771
CMDR's Log https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=96350
Elite OCR https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68771
All the crowd sourced tools will no longer be giving the correct info. They all need to start from scratch and even then there is so much volatility in prices that any uploaded data will be out of date in a few hours.
I've not played yet since yesterday but from what I'm reading this isn't fixed, it's reverted to a previously broken state. Shortly after launch, it became apparent that background simulation was too aggressive and supply was falling everywhere. This was addressed by FD.
Excluding the boom state issue leading to luxury trades never falling off, trading was in a very good state where only excessive player trading made prices fall. It was working well.
If supply has indeed dropped everywhere then it suggests a new issue with simulation. I'm beginning to wonder if the beta server's setting of having simulation turned off hasn't somehow leaked into live. If simulation was off, it's entirely possible prices would just plummet. Because there'd be no supply generation at all.
Which is in line with the FDEV claimed "Most trading is done by NPCs, player trading is a minority".
As for the resupplying, I checked Wabiya (iirc), the latest lux run, this morning and it was still at a supply of 27. Could be that players are still trying, of course, but it almost seems as if it basically doesn't resupply.
The market is entirely too volatile right now. It makes you think that the current market is either somehow linked to the Beta one incorrectly, or that the background sim just isnt even working properly.
This cannot be how they expect us to trade. Find a route and run it 3x and move on? You have to be crazy. Takes longer to hunt a route down than it's worth actually running it.
This cannot be how they expect us to trade. Find a route and run it 3x and move on? You have to be crazy. Takes longer to hunt a route down than it's worth actually running it.
Which is exactly the issue: The AI are trading too aggressively, with numbers far exceeding reasonableness. This was a MAJOR issue that 'd trading for weeks at release. Was working perfectly fine in Gamma. They borked it for release, fixed it and now borked it again. Trying really hard to stay optimistic in the face of overwhelming dubious development decisions.
Sometimes I wonder.....
This, indeed. I'm fine with lux trades being nuked. While having made good money off of that, I'm also well aware that it wasn't quite intended behaviour but this seems to go a bit overboard.
Time to take a minor break while this is sorted and play other games!
We should call it The Haulercaust!
Get out... ^_^
Neither tool is crowdsourced info. It's the best way to trade with your own data without using the (lack of) in game tools.
I have not played today yet, but I have to add to the discussion, specifically, what was broken that needed fixing in trading !?
I will not name the system but the area I'm in, so far I've seen 2 other CMDR, NOBODY else around. For the past 2 days I did the Seeking Luxury trade, buying from a MEDIUM stock outpost with a meager investment, and I clearly see the stock number dwindle by the same number I was buying, round after round the number goes down the same amount I buy.
So what is this about stock remains the same?
Sure Seeking Luxury needs nerfing, but I agree with other CMDRs that trade commodities were fine as they are. Routes do expire. I too am guilty of using trading tool, and with data a day or 2 old, the route is already not as profitable. Exhausting the route in the matter of hours, the hours that many CMDR with busy life can get to play is now used to find new routes, by chance? Really FD...
I will not name the system but the area I'm in, so far I've seen 2 other CMDR, NOBODY else around. For the past 2 days I did the Seeking Luxury trade, buying from a MEDIUM stock outpost with a meager investment, and I clearly see the stock number dwindle by the same number I was buying, round after round the number goes down the same amount I buy.
So what is this about stock remains the same?
Sure Seeking Luxury needs nerfing, but I agree with other CMDRs that trade commodities were fine as they are. Routes do expire. I too am guilty of using trading tool, and with data a day or 2 old, the route is already not as profitable. Exhausting the route in the matter of hours, the hours that many CMDR with busy life can get to play is now used to find new routes, by chance? Really FD...