External View [A definitive discussion]

[Ideas Man]

Nothing wrong with making cool vids for Youtube etc, it's all part of the modern gaming experience

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

That's sucks for you man

No worries - it doesn't suck .

 

[Sandmann]

Simple activation delay is all that's needed, not a satellite-feed type delay. With my idea the cam would both power and depower on a delay, so you can't just pop in and out for a peek either at the HUD or your surroundings, but have to wait for it either way. No processing required, just waiting. Which is pretty much death in combat. Reporters and duckfacers, as it's been put, could care less about an activation time.

I'd like to see it in action... see if it works as well as you believe it would. Not saying you're wrong or anything, only that I'll withhold my opinion before I've tried it.

Well don't say it is an accurate definitions then, by a dictionary, if you are going to decline to show it actually meets the definition.
Arguments can be valid without being sound.

Terms such as "inordinate" and "excessive" are subjective not objective. There's no strict "definition" of them, they are relative to the observer and the situation. They can ONLY ever be judgement calls. The argument is both valid AND sound.

 

[Ideas Man]

No worries - it doesn't suck .

Dismissing the majority of internet users as 'Sub Optimal' and 'Duckface' is horribly prejudice and you are missing out on some really cool folk, it's a bad attitude to have about your fellow gamers.

 

[Sandmann]

Wasn't meant as a complain as the simplistic flight model of the C64 Elite has nothing in common with E|D anymore (thankfully). Anyway, I started it and now I'd like to stop these nostalgic memories. Rear view of the original Elite is a completely different story than our external view topic here...

I wasn't complaining either. The single player games have to have different mechanics to the multiplayer ones... plus there's the small thing of thirty years of game development to consider too.

 

[Tar Stone]

Nothing wrong with making cool vids for Youtube etc, it's all part of the modern gaming experience

People have been making Youtube videos of ED and livestreaming for almost a year, I bought the game after watching the first combat videos.

If I'd seen someone flick to an outside view during any of those combat videos, even just a quick flick for a second to look around, I would categorically not have bought the game.

 

[Ideas Man]

People have been making Youtube videos of ED and livestreaming for almost a year, I bought the game after watching the first combat videos.

If I'd seen someone flick to an outside view during any of those combat videos, even just a quick flick for a second to look around, I would categorically not have bought the game.

Can't tell if you are being serious or not lol

 

[Tar Stone]

...and thereby help FD keep the marketing budget down, yes.

That's a load of nonsense. As if the marketing department is saving money by an external view cam being enabled, what a crock. Make the case for your external cam on gameplay, game experience or whatever, but saying it's saving money for the studio, don't make me laugh.

 

[Sandmann]

Can't tell if you are being serious or not lol

This is a game with a decent sized group of people wanting "ironman mode" where death means your character dies, and you're surprised that there's people who don't want to be able to "step outside the spaceship for a look around"?

 

[Tarman]

Can't tell if you are being serious or not lol

There's bolded letters, it's serious.

 

[Lovecraft]

I'd like to see it in action... see if it works as well as you believe it would. Not saying you're wrong or anything, only that I'll withhold my opinion before I've tried it.



Terms such as "inordinate" and "excessive" are subjective not objective. There's no strict "definition" of them, they are relative to the observer and the situation. The argument is both valid AND sound.

If you think of what narcissism refers to- a personality disorder- then there is a very real definition for it. That you chose to use a dictionary definition for something so complex, just to negatively label people that oppose your viewpoint, speaks more of your character, than of anyone else's. That you're reduced to pedantry and semantics further illustrates your weak position.

 

[Nomadski]

People have been making Youtube videos of ED and livestreaming for almost a year, I bought the game after watching the first combat videos.

If I'd seen someone flick to an outside view during any of those combat videos, even just a quick flick for a second to look around, I would categorically not have bought the game.

Why didn't official marketing videos put you off? There is nothing BUT external views in those.

(In fact those are the kinds of videos some of us dream of making, and which should be possible, but alas we will be stuck with 'ship flying in straight line video #2039')

 

[Ideas Man]

This is a game with a decent sized group of people wanting "ironman mode" where death means your character dies, and you're surprised that there's people who don't want to be able to "step outside the spaceship for a look around"?

They want Iron Man mode but are scared of space selfies?
These people better be careful what they wish fro imo ha ha

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There's bolded letters, it's serious.

In that case:

Let's all give a big hip hip hooray to the inclusion of external cameras and selfies!

 

[Sandmann]

If you think of what narcissism refers to- a personality disorder- then there is a very real definition for it. That you chose to use a dictionary definition for something so complex, just to negatively label people that oppose your viewpoint, speaks more of your character, than of anyone else's. That you're reduced to pedantry and semantics further illustrates your weak position.

Sorry if my accuracy bothers you.

 

[Tar Stone]

Can't tell if you are being serious or not lol

I'm 100% serious, those who remember me from beta and gamma will know that I've said many times that I followed the development of the game fanatically since Dec 2013, and I was holding out for the combat videos to appear. I knew that if they'd captured the feeling of the original Elite combat, then I would definitely buy in.

If I'd seen an external view in there, I wouldn't have bought the game. I can only speak for myself.

I play IL2 Cliffs of Dover on the big ATAG servers, where external views are disabled for everyone.

I appreciate there is a huge demand for them - but I still don't see what they bring to the gameplay.

 

[TheEponymousBob]

This is a game with a decent sized group of people wanting "ironman mode" where death means your character dies, and you're surprised that there's people who don't want to be able to "step outside the spaceship for a look around"?

He may be new here and unaware that no matter what FD do or don't do, some people here will find a reason to complain about it; even if it's to add a useful feature with literally no drawbacks whatsoever. He'll soon learn.

 

[Sandmann]

They want Iron Man mode but are scared of space selfies?
These people better be careful what they wish fro imo ha ha

OK now -I'm- the one who's not sure if you're serious or not? Do you really think that a desire to restrict a game to being more realistic is the same thing as a fear of selfies? Or are you just using argument ad hominem under the guise of misunderstanding?

 

[Ideas Man]

I still don't see what they bring to the gameplay.

Fun, nothing more, nothing less

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OK now -I'm- the one who's not sure if you're serious or not? Do you really think that a desire to restrict a game to being more realistic is the same thing as a fear of selfies? Or are you just using argument ad hominem under the guise of misunderstanding?

I thought you meant they were worried about the PVP ADVANTAGE (lol) of an external camera, that's all, sorry for any misunderstanding

 

[Lovecraft]

Sorry if my accuracy bothers you.

Well, your lack of it certainly does.

I'm just not sure why you have to label a player base negatively and inaccurately to portray your argument. You make some good points (that I agree with) but resort to labels and low blows as if to emphasise your point, when all that tells me is you're either venting, a troll, or you don't choose your words very carefully.

It's fine to not like the inclusion of the camera, but if you're thinking clearly and rationally, you'll see that it won't affect you at all.

 

[Tar Stone]

In the space of 2 months this forum has been taken over by practically the polar opposite type of community that was here for 2 years.

There has been a wealth of concern posted over external views, and those same concerns led to many servers for online combat sims having them disabled. They *might* cheapen the combat which is the last thing anyone wants.