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So marketing lie to put people off from superior OR CB? Also from possible CV1?
The Vive discussion Thread
- Thread starter vanfanel
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So marketing lie to put people off from superior OR CB? Also from possible CV1?
I think the majority of the motion sickness people get, is from frame rate issues. ANY disconnect from the framerate while moving your head gives you IMMEDIATE motion sickness, that disappears equally fast. It's pretty strange, really. I think fixing that issue is VR developers main issue.. as well as mapping head movement to game movement in a 1:1 ratio. I can play ED in the rift for 5 hours straight, and I don't get sick at all. My eyes get kind of tired, but I get that from my monitor too.
For example, I have the roller coaster demo where you are like a 1" tall guy, and your coaster goes all over the room. I get motion sickness on it in the middle of the very first lap. I can only do it once before I have to stop. Why? The framerate is flawless at 75... it's because my eyes can only tell my brain I am flying all over the room at high speed on a coaster, but my inner ear is telling my brain I haven't moved an inch.
For example, I have the roller coaster demo where you are like a 1" tall guy, and your coaster goes all over the room. I get motion sickness on it in the middle of the very first lap. I can only do it once before I have to stop. Why? The framerate is flawless at 75... it's because my eyes can only tell my brain I am flying all over the room at high speed on a coaster, but my inner ear is telling my brain I haven't moved an inch.
Seems to be a mixture of things. FPS movement is usually fast and when you're in the rift it feels way to fast but it depends on the game. HL2 made me want to puke straight away where as Quake 1 was amazing.
I wonder if they've made any improvements to HL2 since I last played it. The biggest problem with the game was the pauses during the loading of the next parts were the scenery would freeze and lock to your headset's movement. I had to close my eyes at those moments. It would be easy to fade to black between loading.
Nice link, very interesting viewing. Thanks
"Disengaging ourselves from the many-wired prototype, it's surprising to learn that the seemingly least-complete VR hardware is set to be the first to reach the market. The HTC Vive is confirmed for a 2015 release, and could possibly arrive simultaneously with the main Steam Machine hardware, due in November this year."
The recent demo hardware looked to me more prototype / proof of concept - so a little surprised to hear a confirmed 2015 release. Maybe they will tag it 'Innovator edition' which means developer kit?
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Motion sickness and simulator sickness are two different things, don't forget that. The result is similar, people get sick, but simulator sickness arises from the visual simulation not being accurate enough, like low framerate, high latency and such. The only situation where motion sickness applies in VR is in the case of the vestibular system mismatch, as it's basically the inverse of the traditional motion sickness people get from real life.
Most issues with motion sickness have to do with losing base references, augmented by visual and physiological stimulus. As a retired pilot (who flew many hours of Simulators - both motionless and with full axes) problems usually where more pronounced when the visuals would stop and the "cockpit" would still be in motion. By the same token, visuals without motion were a close second in inducing ms hence why most fixed simulators remove (or do not have) external visual and are mostly used as instrument (or procedural) trainers.
When the vision system is included, it seems that our brains need at least *one* reference point, like the nose (http://uploadvr.com/is-the-answer-to-simulator-sickness-right-in-front-of-our-nose/). Similarly, motion without vision quickly lead to disorientation (hence the "leans" when instrument flying) due to poor physiological cues. By the way, the latter is fixed by using vision on references (i.e instruments) - but it still can induce motion sickness.
Both condition are trainable however, illustrated by people being able to VR for longer and longer periods at a time.
When the vision system is included, it seems that our brains need at least *one* reference point, like the nose (http://uploadvr.com/is-the-answer-to-simulator-sickness-right-in-front-of-our-nose/). Similarly, motion without vision quickly lead to disorientation (hence the "leans" when instrument flying) due to poor physiological cues. By the way, the latter is fixed by using vision on references (i.e instruments) - but it still can induce motion sickness.
Both condition are trainable however, illustrated by people being able to VR for longer and longer periods at a time.
Came across this write up of the current crop of VR systems on reddit.
Comes across as trying to be impartial but hard to know for sure and provides a good amount of detailed information about each system. There were a few interesting bits in it such as the claim that the VIVE induced headaches and that overall, according to this person, Oculus Crescent Bay is still just about on top, though overall all the systems are pretty close to each other.
Comes across as trying to be impartial but hard to know for sure and provides a good amount of detailed information about each system. There were a few interesting bits in it such as the claim that the VIVE induced headaches and that overall, according to this person, Oculus Crescent Bay is still just about on top, though overall all the systems are pretty close to each other.
If you read the comments, the author says that the Sony Morpheus was the headset he liked the most. That's nice, and means I'll need to get both that one and one of the PC headsets (whichever is released first).
Thanks. Good read and (if accurate) the best I've read on the various HMDs out there.
Really not sure what to make of Morpheus. It may be a likable VR headset but as long as its tied to just Sony Systems (i.e PS4) its a bit of a dead end. I'm also very skeptical it can ever provide a high quality experience as the PS4 (along with Xbox One) are already so dated in terms of hardware. Sure developers will likely be able to push that hardware further, but its a bit of a losing battle when you are rendering twice the amount of geometry to begin with. Of course there are plenty of other uses for a VR headset beyond 3D games, like watching 3D video that will easily work on PS4.
Personally I'm a little buoyed with the articles upbeat talk of the latest Oculus Rift enhancements since they were so focused on pushing mobile at GDC. However I strongly suspect in the end i'm going to grab both Rift CV1 and VIVE in order to test them out myself.
Facebook will always follow the money.
Maybe Crescent bay & Vive sound closer than initial reviews suggested?
"First-Time Reactions from Oculus’ Crescent Bay and HTC’s Vive VR Headsets, 24 Hours Apart"
http://www.roadtovr.com/first-time-reactions-crescent-bay-htc-vive-24-hours-apart/
"First-Time Reactions from Oculus’ Crescent Bay and HTC’s Vive VR Headsets, 24 Hours Apart"
http://www.roadtovr.com/first-time-reactions-crescent-bay-htc-vive-24-hours-apart/
I don't know if I miss it, didn't Frontier already make some Statement about Vive Support?
At the Moment it looks like Oculus Rift CV1 comes not before 2016 and I self have enough to wait and wait for the CV1 and Oculus didn't bring it out. Because Vive should come End of the Year, I want to buy a Vive. I have a DK2 since 08/14 and already reach the Point, that I want more (better Resolution).
I bought the DK2 an 03/14 and feared I have it only some Month before CV1 comes, now it looks like I must deal with the DK2 1 1/2 Years or longer... too long for me. Oculus had it's chance, but they need too much Time to release the Rift for the Masses. Oculus looks for me like a Company that want too much and oversleeping the right time for the Release.
At the Moment it looks like Oculus Rift CV1 comes not before 2016 and I self have enough to wait and wait for the CV1 and Oculus didn't bring it out. Because Vive should come End of the Year, I want to buy a Vive. I have a DK2 since 08/14 and already reach the Point, that I want more (better Resolution).
I bought the DK2 an 03/14 and feared I have it only some Month before CV1 comes, now it looks like I must deal with the DK2 1 1/2 Years or longer... too long for me. Oculus had it's chance, but they need too much Time to release the Rift for the Masses. Oculus looks for me like a Company that want too much and oversleeping the right time for the Release.
HTC Vive alive, Oculus dead ?
So I see HTC seem to have "nailed" the VR experience as early reports suggest on the intertube's, with their Vive.
It seems to have everything that the rift has failed to achieve. Which leaves me asking this question, will FD be supporting the Vive with ED ?
Personally I think it would be a big mistake not to, since the rift is looking less and less likely to be the VR panacea a lot of people thought it would be
I'm thinking Oculus have made their cash from selling "dev kits" and then selling Oculus to Facebook, call me cynical...
Also am wondering if the Vive will be as open to developers as the "Rift" or it will be a closed steam/valve thing with licensing required from them to utilise it in your software or sumsuch ?
Am thinking when the paid dlc comes, space stations you can walk around etc the Vive is going to win there too ? as Oculus have already said they don't recommend walking about using their product they haven't made yet.
So I see HTC seem to have "nailed" the VR experience as early reports suggest on the intertube's, with their Vive.
It seems to have everything that the rift has failed to achieve. Which leaves me asking this question, will FD be supporting the Vive with ED ?
Personally I think it would be a big mistake not to, since the rift is looking less and less likely to be the VR panacea a lot of people thought it would be
I'm thinking Oculus have made their cash from selling "dev kits" and then selling Oculus to Facebook, call me cynical...
Also am wondering if the Vive will be as open to developers as the "Rift" or it will be a closed steam/valve thing with licensing required from them to utilise it in your software or sumsuch ?
Am thinking when the paid dlc comes, space stations you can walk around etc the Vive is going to win there too ? as Oculus have already said they don't recommend walking about using their product they haven't made yet.
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Sigh...
You don't (and they ain't saying yet) even know what Oculus plans on releasing yet. Once they show their stuff, then one can make educated guesses as to who or what will be. One thing is for sure, as of now there is only one available HDM.
Anything else is from your (and everyone else) seventh planet.
You don't (and they ain't saying yet) even know what Oculus plans on releasing yet. Once they show their stuff, then one can make educated guesses as to who or what will be. One thing is for sure, as of now there is only one available HDM.
Anything else is from your (and everyone else) seventh planet.
It's not a case of what Oculus releases for me, it's if they release anything, or at least when. HTC have said Christmas this year, just basic common sense would suggest the first people to nail VR and get it to market will set back everyone else quite a bit, possibly into extinction :/
I would just like people's opinion or FD's about how many VR products they intend to try to support, Oculus seem to have been the initial choice because dev kits are cheaper than a hamster cage, and there's not much else. It would seem sensible for FD to support the best consumer hardware though, and not a maybe, wannabe, perhaps sometime product just because it was one of the first to have the idea and release something.
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