Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Bomba Luigi]

When the extra Risk of Open lies within Players who are more skilled then NPCs, isn't the extra reward for that extra Risk these Players having higher Bountys then NPC?

Granted, thats just a theory for now since Bountys are not working all that well right now but they are working on it. We will see how it goes but that in my opinion is the kind of extra reward that would make the most sense.

 

[Mephane]

Yeah, you know why FD didn't allow solo and group players into the race? Because it wouldn't be fair. They know it wouldn't be fair.

More likely they just wanted to avoid 1000 comments about how it were unfair in one way or another. But I will give you a hint: It is absolutely possible to reach all the Elite ratings without ever fighting against another player while still staying in Open mode; it's a large galaxy after all. Is it also unfair that someone can gain combat Elite by fighting only NPCs in same backwater system at the edge of human space, never seeing even a single other player? Because that is effectively the same as Solo mode in terms of possibly extra challenge due to other players - i.e. none.

I propose all who now complain about Solo mode should also start a big thread complaining how the race to Elite was utterly unfair for not also requiring them to never leave a 10 LY radius sphere around Lave...

 

[Binerexis]

I think it's more that they wanted the race to be in the mode that they designed ED around in the first place. Soo play is definitely there as an option but it's not what Frontier set out to create.

 

[fademist]

More likely they just wanted to avoid 1000 comments about how it were unfair in one way or another. But I will give you a hint: It is absolutely possible to reach all the Elite ratings without ever fighting against another player while still staying in Open mode; it's a large galaxy after all. Is it also unfair that someone can gain combat Elite by fighting only NPCs in same backwater system at the edge of human space, never seeing even a single other player? Because that is effectively the same as Solo mode in terms of possibly extra challenge due to other players - i.e. none.

I propose all who now complain about Solo mode should also start a big thread complaining how the race to Elite was utterly unfair for not also requiring them to never leave a 10 LY radius sphere around Lave...

lets hope they wont

 

[Joe Spivey]

It is absolutely possible to reach all the Elite ratings without ever fighting against another player while still staying in Open mode; it's a large galaxy after all. Is it also unfair that someone can gain combat Elite by fighting only NPCs in same backwater system at the edge of human space, never seeing even a single other player? Because that is effectively the same as Solo mode in terms of possibly extra challenge due to other players - i.e. none.

This is a fact (the effective sameness of Solo and Open) that has been pointed out many times but has been consistently ignored.

 

[Meritz]

When the extra Risk of Open lies within Players who are more skilled then NPCs, isn't the extra reward for that extra Risk these Players having higher Bountys then NPC?

Granted, thats just a theory for now since Bountys are not working all that well right now but they are working on it. We will see how it goes but that in my opinion is the kind of extra reward that would make the most sense.

We're talking combat bonds. No, player kills in warzones are worth the same as NPC kills.

Pirates/gankers with huge bounties on their head generally do not go into warzones. Chances are they won't find what they're looking for.

And it isn't the money that's the issue. It's the community goal score. Perhaps making player kills count as ten NPC kills (arbitrarily chosen number) would make things more even, but not sure about that one.

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More likely they just wanted to avoid 1000 comments about how it were unfair in one way or another. But I will give you a hint: It is absolutely possible to reach all the Elite ratings without ever fighting against another player while still staying in Open mode; it's a large galaxy after all. Is it also unfair that someone can gain combat Elite by fighting only NPCs in same backwater system at the edge of human space, never seeing even a single other player? Because that is effectively the same as Solo mode in terms of possibly extra challenge due to other players - i.e. none.

I can turn that around and say, if that's the case, then let us terminate solo mode altogether. After all, if playing in a remote part of the galaxy is effectively the same as playing solo, why have two modes? Right? Right?

 

[Robert Maynard]

I can turn that around and say, if that's the case, then let us terminate solo mode altogether. After all, if playing in a remote part of the galaxy is effectively the same as playing solo, why have two modes? Right? Right?

You could - except that, in my opinion, it would be missing the point. Solo allows players to play the game, uninterrupted by other players, in any region of the galaxy that they wish. The principal difference is in the areas that are player populated in open - the solo player will still be able to play there uninterrupted by players. In the other 99.(not quite sure how many nines)% of the galaxy both modes are functionally nearly identical as the only difference is between being really, really, really unlikely to meet another player and definitively not going to meet another player.

Also, solo persists as it is part of the earliest stated game design and further because it was put forward as a mode where players who wanted the offline mode would be able to play as offline was cancelled.

 

[azdour]

You could - except that, in my opinion, it would be missing the point. Solo allows players to play the game, uninterrupted by other players, in any region of the galaxy that they wish. The principal difference is in the areas that are player populated in open - the solo player will still be able to play there uninterrupted by players. In the other 99.(not quite sure how many nines)% of the galaxy both modes are functionally nearly identical as the only difference is between being really, really, really unlikely to meet another player and definitively not going to meet another player.

Also, solo persists as it is part of the earliest stated game design and further because it was put forward as a mode where players who wanted the offline mode would be able to play as offline was cancelled.

I'd like to add that the other benefit for solo is the low bandwidth needed for your connection. So people playing with a quota, and even those who have tried using a phone to connect, find that solo is runnable - this opens up Elite: Dangerous for more people who would not otherwise be able to play.

 

[Mephane]

I can turn that around and say, if that's the case, then let us terminate solo mode altogether. After all, if playing in a remote part of the galaxy is effectively the same as playing solo, why have two modes? Right? Right?

This argument might indeed work when aimed against a Solo mode that was about to be implemented as a new feature. But the mode is already implemented, the extra programming work (which is very little in fact) has already been done, and the mode does have the benefit that someone who prefers to play alone can also play in the core worlds, such traditional places as Lave and Leesti, and does not have to get out of their way to be left alone. Whereas to anyone preferring pure Open Play, it makes no difference whether they don't meet the Solo players because they are in Solo instances in Lave, or distant Open Play instances where they are all by themselves.

I'd like to add that the other benefit for solo is the low bandwidth needed for your connection. So people playing with a quota, and even those who have tried using a phone to connect, find that solo is runnable - this opens up Elite: Dangerous for more people who would not otherwise be able to play.

You are right, I forgot about that even though I did play two days of pure Solo just recently because I had some rather large download running in the background (ESO) and this way I had both the connection free for the download and wouldn't unintentionally drag down someone else's P2P experience by the lag I would have produced.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

For some players, Solo is the only way they can play, for technical reasons or otherwise.

Seeing they have paid the same money and technically have access the to rest of the universe as those lucky enough to have perfect internet access and high-ish end hardware to run it on why should they not have the same benefits.

Any proposals to change the status quo on the modes ignores this.

Either that or the proposer has a high disregard for anyone not lucky enough to be in his circumstance or frame of mind. In any case these things have been said numerous times in the last few days and the same poster is ignoring the salient points, and only arguing on the ones he feels he can argue against.

I would very much like to know what it is that poster has against people like me that he would love for FDev to cripple the game for me?

 

[Meritz]

You could - except that, in my opinion, it would be missing the point. Solo allows players to play the game, uninterrupted by other players, in any region of the galaxy that they wish. The principal difference is in the areas that are player populated in open - the solo player will still be able to play there uninterrupted by players.

Precisely my point. Therefore, in the context of community goals, which are designed to attract players to a particular area, there is a great big difference between solo and Open gameplay.

Thus the argument that solo and playing in remote areas of the galaxy in Open are effectively the same is irrelevant.

 

[Mephane]

Precisely my point. Therefore, in the context of community goals, which are designed to attract players to a particular area, there is a great big difference between solo and Open gameplay.

Thus the argument that solo and playing in remote areas of the galaxy in Open are effectively the same is irrelevant.

This is now very, very funny because you just provided the perfect argument for why Open Mode is needed despite what you just said -

I can turn that around and say, if that's the case, then let us terminate solo mode altogether. After all, if playing in a remote part of the galaxy is effectively the same as playing solo, why have two modes? Right? Right?

- and that is because Solo Mode makes it possible in the first place that someone doing single-player take part in this content. The entire premise of it is that you can experience the entire game and all the content both as a multi-player game, and just as well as a single-player game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Precisely my point. Therefore, in the context of community goals, which are designed to attract players to a particular area, there is a great big difference between solo and Open gameplay.

Thus the argument that solo and playing in remote areas of the galaxy in Open are effectively the same is irrelevant.

Frontier appear to be quite content that players in any mode contribute to the player goal. Open has other players in it, solo does not - this is the case for any role, mission, community goal that a player may wish to play, fulfil or participate in.

As I said earlier, presumably players play in open because they like playing with other players, regardless of whether they enjoy individual outcomes during that play.

 

[Meritz]

Frontier appear to be quite content that players in any mode contribute to the player goal. Open has other players in it, solo does not - this is the case for any role, mission, community goal that a player may wish to play, fulfil or participate in.

As I said earlier, presumably players play in open because they like playing with other players, regardless of whether they enjoy individual outcomes during that play.

And again I can turn that around I say, presumably solo players play that way primarily because they like playing alone, regardless of whether they enjoy individual outcomes during that play.

In which case no one should have a problem with lowering score impact solo players have on community goals. After all... the primary reason they play solo is not scoring on those goals, right?

You can always default to "FD said so". I can't argue with that, it's their game. If they want to nuke PvP in their game, they can do so.

Mephane, you got lost there a bit. Not arguing against solo mode.

 

[Seonid]

If they want to nuke PvP in their game, they can do so.

PvP focus was never part of the design, not quite sure how you can nuke something that isn't there.

 

[Meritz]

PvP focus was never part of the design, not quite sure how you can nuke something that isn't there.

Hmm, create a multiplayer game with harsh death penalties and allow PvP to happen anywhere at any time. If they didn't want PvP as a big part of the game, they sure have a weird way of reaching that goal.

I think it's more like you're reaching... for straws.

 

[Seonid]

Hmm, create a multiplayer game with harsh death penalties and allow PvP to happen anywhere at any time.

And allow PvP to be completely avoided anywhere at any time, yeah that's a total PvP design focus commitment right there.

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

Just gonna sneak this in here....
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Going into a High Intensity Warzone in Solo mode is much more difficult than it is in open....

 

[Schattenbogen]

He didn't say PvP was not a part of the game, he said the game is not PvP focused.
The game has death penalties for all and it allow PvP, but it don't resume to PvP or "pew-pewing".
It's a lot more than this.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Precisely my point. Therefore, in the context of community goals, which are designed to attract players to a particular area, there is a great big difference between solo and Open gameplay.

Thus the argument that solo and playing in remote areas of the galaxy in Open are effectively the same is irrelevant.

Because you were there at the design meeting. So you know that they made an accident in letting solo players take part in the goals, yes?

I'll ask you again, what have you got against players who for one reason or another may be stuck in solo? They paid the same for the game and you want them to have less content, less participation in the universe that they have full access to!

Don't dodge the issue. What is it you have against those players?