Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Beetlebum]

noone stops u for play ur way ..but i think u want to stop others for play their way and get what promised from KS days

Haven't you even read what I wrote? I said I want another server for hardcore pvp people that does NOT affect your game universe in any way. Because the server isn't there yet, I can't play my way.

 

[Mouse]

As it is now. That is why I want seperated servers with completely unconnected universes. I would even pay a monthly fee, just to play hardcore pvp-only with a universe unaffected by people who hide in solo.

There is that word again... "Hide" .. people don't hide in solo they play a different way than you do. Calling it hiding speaks volumes about how you feel about PVE. It is pretty much the "It is wrong. PVP is how the game is meant to play and by PVEing your ruining my content. " argument.

And what you fail again to realize is ED is the way the developers want it to be.. with EVERYONE effecting the Universe in some way. Just because you can't shoot someone down is not a valid reason for them to drastically alter the game.

 

[fademist]

Haven't you even read what I wrote? I said I want another server for hardcore pvp people that does NOT affect your game universe in any way. Because the server isn't there yet, I can't play my way.

and u will pay the costs for that server i guess?? ;p

 

[torquedsoul]

If the server where the Solo/Group people stay also keeps the current Open mode, and there is content parity between all servers, I can agree to this. Though I believe you wouldn't like the result, in the west most players tend to choose the option that prevents non-consensual PvP. Add to that how PvP needs a minimum critical mass in order for the conflict to spark, and I wouldn't be surprised if such a separate server became almost empty.

Hell ... Just create the PvP server and we can see how it plays out. No server switching, you are either PvP or PvE. I think that is a great idea. And then the PvP server can have things like corps and guilds.

 

[Beetlebum]

There is that word again... "Hide" .. people don't hide in solo they play a different way than you do. Calling it hiding speaks volumes about how you feel about PVE. It is pretty much the "It is wrong. PVP is how the game is meant to play and by PVEing your ruining my content. " argument.

If the way they want to play is hiding from players who could attack them, I don't see a contradiction there. It is also totally fine by me that this sort of game exists, although it is a bit lame to me. I am just asking for a seperate pvp-hardcore server, because as it is now, PVP is a gimmick with a whole list of disadvantages perverting the risk vs. reward spirit of Elite. The two paradigms just doesn't fit in one universe.

And what you fail again to realize is ED is the way the developers want it to be.. with EVERYONE effecting the Universe in some way.

What you fail to realize is that I just voice my opinion on this design issue. I don't know in which country you live, but here it is democratic culture to say what you think. Disagreeing with anyone, even with FD, is totally fine.

Just because you can't shoot someone down is not a valid reason for them to drastically alter the game.

This is not the point. I am mainly a trader and have little to no interest in shooting anybody. But if someone dares to shoot me, he is taking the risk that my pals go after him, unless he hides in solo. I want to "live" in a dangerous universe where every move could have serious consequences, without invisibility cheats of any kind. Is that so hard to get?

Everyone changing to solo and no permadeath doesn't make you think a hundred times before you make a move. No one would just kill hundreds of noobs for the lolz as he could lose everything he worked for several months in doing so. This might not be the game you would like to play, but I would die for it (literally )!

- - - Updated - - -

and u will pay the costs for that server i guess?? ;p

Right. I would pay a monthly fee. Besides, it most likely wouldn't mean an additional physical server, just an additional, virtual universe. The processing power is player dependant anyway, because the game world generates procedurally on the fly. There isn't a whole universe simulated in real time. This is not how the game works. Some data (like trade information) may double in size, but it probably wouldn't even need an additional hard drive for this.

 

[torquedsoul]

Kinda, at least in the US. Seven servers, according to the server status page, being four PvE ones (of which three are high population) and three PvP ones (of which only one is high population). So, seems like for most US TERA players the game is a mainly PvE one, with all PvP happening by consent only.

Kinda like what I believe most players defending Solo want here. A game where PvP can happen, but only if both sides consent to fight.

Erm ... so why no create the PvP server. The fact that there are servers available and at least one is high population shows that there is a demand for that style of play. Why does it need to be all or nothing? They are given the choice in that game. We all know the risk when we sign up for a PvP server so there is little crying when you get ganked. If you don't want to ever get ganked ... don't play on the PvP server.

See how simple and elegant a system that is. Rather than trying to force PvP's to be polite and courteous and ask permission for a fight ... you simply keep them separated.

I am really beginning to think I am taking crazy pills. I feel like Frontier is stubbornly trying to make a point about bad internet behavior and is forgetting that not everyone is as thin skinned as they are.

Eliteangerous (by permission only).

 

[torquedsoul]

and u will pay the costs for that server i guess?? ;p

so Frontier doesn't have the money to support a presumably low population pvp server.

Remember the concept of billions is pretty small to modern computers and the thousands of civilized systems is chump change. Since the population would be on one server vs the other, any reduction of population of one would reduce the processing and bandwidth required for that one as well.

By your argument, Frontier could conceivably have population cap and would need to stop selling new copies of the game. I think they should get a head of the curve and just open up the PvP server now so that they can avoid overpopulation in the future.

- - - Updated - - -

A little correction, to not allow players to be disruptive or inconvenience others unless that other player specifically sign up for it (AKA play and remain in Open). And for many that numbers among the very best features of the game. I don't know about you, but I both get frustrated if others attempt to disrupt my gameplay and actually feel bad if I directly disrupt the gameplay of anyone else, so for me that is actually essential for the game to be playable at all.

Many PvE oriented players are saying that they shouldn't be forced into solo mode. What do have to say to them? There are many that would simply disagree with you. Being in open according to them is not adequate permission to be attacked.

I have heard some of the craziest ish of the past couple days here. It's like crazy land.

- - - Updated - - -

noone stops u for play ur way ..but i think u want to stop others for play their way and get what promised from KS days

How would having separate PvP and PvE servers interfere with the way you play?

 

[Faded Glory]

Hell ... Just create the PvP server and we can see how it plays out. No server switching, you are either PvP or PvE. I think that is a great idea. And then the PvP server can have things like corps and guilds.

So, kind of a different game then.

 

[fademist]

so Frontier doesn't have the money to support a presumably low population pvp server.

Remember the concept of billions is pretty small to modern computers and the thousands of civilized systems is chump change. Since the population would be on one server vs the other, any reduction of population of one would reduce the processing and bandwidth required for that one as well.

By your argument, Frontier could conceivably have population cap and would need to stop selling new copies of the game. I think they should get a head of the curve and just open up the PvP server now so that they can avoid overpopulation in the future.

- - - Updated - - -



Many PvE oriented players are saying that they shouldn't be forced into solo mode. What do have to say to them? There are many that would simply disagree with you. Being in open according to them is not adequate permission to be attacked.

I have heard some of the craziest ish of the past couple days here. It's like crazy land.

- - - Updated - - -



How would having separate PvP and PvE servers interfere with the way you play?

ok ok u can believe w/e u want ...botomline is that wont happen if u dont believe me read the thread to open ur eyes ty

 

[torquedsoul]

There is that word again... "Hide" .. people don't hide in solo they play a different way than you do. Calling it hiding speaks volumes about how you feel about PVE. It is pretty much the "It is wrong. PVP is how the game is meant to play and by PVEing your ruining my content. " argument.

And what you fail again to realize is ED is the way the developers want it to be.. with EVERYONE effecting the Universe in some way. Just because you can't shoot someone down is not a valid reason for them to drastically alter the game.

Did we fail to mention that PvP'ers want a different server altogether that doesn't impact anything on the PvE server.

Did we mention it? Over and over and over again.

Did we say that we wanted a SEPARATE server?

Did we?

Why should PvP'ers be forced to play like PvE'ers ... that is essentially what is being said here by denying PvP'ers their own server and then nerfing the hell out of PvP play.

This is insane.

 

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by MouseThere is that word again... "Hide" .. people don't hide in solo they play a different way than you do. Calling it hiding speaks volumes about how you feel about PVE. It is pretty much the "It is wrong. PVP is how the game is meant to play and by PVEing your ruining my content. " argument.



If the way they want to play is hiding from players who could attack them, I don't see a contradiction there. It is also totally fine by me that this sort of game exists, although it is a bit lame to me. I am just asking for a seperate pvp-hardcore server, because as it is now, PVP is a gimmick with a whole list of disadvantages perverting the risk vs. reward spirit of Elite. The two paradigms just doesn't fit in one universe.

Again, it is not "hiding" its PVE.. your playing against the environment not other players, you find it lame.. so what. You talk about perverting the risk of vs rewards spirit of Elite. what Perverting is there? Can solo's not get blown to heck by NPCs? Solo is not some magical easy land. The ONLY difference is the PVP aspect. the argument is the same gripe as before.. They are doing CG/PP and I can't shoot them to stop them.

Originally Posted by Mouse
And what you fail again to realize is ED is the way the developers want it to be.. with EVERYONE effecting the Universe in some way.



What you fail to realize is that I just voice my opinion on this design issue. I don't know in which country you live, but here it is democratic culture to say what you think. Disagreeing with anyone, even with FD, is totally fine.

Not sure why you bring country into this, you do realize that these are private forums and they can censor you how they wish to. Plus at no point did I say you could not disagree, what I said is you failed to realize that things are working as intended. Just not how you think they should be working.

Originally Posted by Mouse
Just because you can't shoot someone down is not a valid reason for them to drastically alter the game.



This is not the point. I am mainly a trader and have little to no interest in shooting anybody. But if someone dares to shoot me, he is taking the risk that my pals go after him, unless he hides in solo. I want to "live" in a dangerous universe where every move could have serious consequences, without invisibility cheats of any kind. Is that so hard to get?

Everyone changing to solo and no permadeath doesn't make you think a hundred times before you make a move. No one would just kill hundreds of noobs for the lolz as he colud lose everything he worked for several months. This might not be the game you would like to play, but I would die for it (literally )! [\QUOTE]

The most funniest part is you think Open is more dangerous than solo.. again the perception that Solo is this easy world. And this "hide" word again. And I've seen it in Eve many times people popping person after person just for thrills.. and they wouldn't risk their expensive ships they built cheaper throwaways to do it. I would also like to know where you are getting this everyone changing to Solo part from? I've seen countless people say they play in Open.

 

[torquedsoul]

ok ok u can believe w/e u want ...botomline is that wont happen if u dont believe me read the thread to open ur eyes ty

I've read the thread. Its pretty clear that Frontier has no intention of creating a sandbox for PvP'ers. I just think that the arguments to support that decision are rather baseless and pretty much insane.

 

[Mouse]

Did we fail to mention that PvP'ers want a different server altogether that doesn't impact anything on the PvE server.

Did we mention it? Over and over and over again.

Did we say that we wanted a SEPARATE server?

Did we?

Why should PvP'ers be forced to play like PvE'ers ... that is essentially what is being said here by denying PvP'ers their own server and then nerfing the hell out of PvP play.

This is insane.

How is PVP nerfed, and at which point are PVP'ers forced to play like PVEers? They are not. In Open you can PVP all you want . This whole discussion shifted to this because you can't shoot someone down who's playing CG/PP in solo. That is why you want a completely separate server. Because you can't deal with effecting things in Solo unless you can shoot the person down as well.

 

[atak2]

I am really beginning to think I am taking crazy pills. I feel like Frontier is stubbornly trying to make a point about bad internet behavior and is forgetting that not everyone is as thin skinned as they are.

Eliteangerous (by permission only).

You are not taking crazy pills.

Elite Dangerous was backed initially by a group of players that held nostalgia for the original Elite. As the Elite Dangerous project progressed the developers realised that there was a large PvP market to appeal to. They have tried to appeal to the PvP crowd (such as myself) but also keep the nostalgic solo/group players happy. By doing so we have the current situation with Powerplay. A PvP mechanic won by PvE actions.

They are hesitant to separate the modes because they listen to the nostalgic players too much and they don't want the costs and/or want to provide the manpower for 2 background simulations.

Many players are as unhappy about it as you are. There are often posts that try to bring this up but they get merged here. Reddit has several threads a day on the subject. People don't post them here because they have realised the thread is controlled by the solo/group players.

 

[Beetlebum]

Did we fail to mention that PvP'ers want a different server altogether that doesn't impact anything on the PvE server.

Did we mention it? Over and over and over again.

Did we say that we wanted a SEPARATE server?

Did we?

Why should PvP'ers be forced to play like PvE'ers ... that is essentially what is being said here by denying PvP'ers their own server and then nerfing the hell out of PvP play.

This is insane.

Maybe he is a bot?

 

[torquedsoul]

So, kind of a different game then.

Right. I get it.

Frontier doesn't like PvP play. People who play PvP are bad.

Your arguments are weak so just act smug and drop a smiley.

maybe frontier would like to give out refunds to all those trolls that thought that they would be able to play PvP in a sandbox.

Right ... the troll's money is helping fund the server. I forgot.

All the crying I hear here about "letting people play their way" and the group that has been deliberately excluded from that are people that would like a PvP sandbox. But that is ok ... cuz they are bad anyway.

 

[fademist]

Why should PvP'ers be forced to play like PvE'ers ... that is essentially what is being said here by denying PvP'ers their own server and then nerfing the hell out of PvP play.

This is insane.

u can play ur way at open like it or not thats the bottomline ..atleast for the time being .....

- - - Updated - - -

maybe frontier would like to give out refunds to all those trolls that thought that they would be able to play PvP in a sandbox.

on what grounds? at open u can do pvp so they have what they sold already in the game

 

[Mouse]

Right. I get it.

Frontier doesn't like PvP play. People who play PvP are bad.

Your arguments are weak so just act smug and drop a smiley.

maybe frontier would like to give out refunds to all those trolls that thought that they would be able to play PvP in a sandbox.

Right ... the troll's money is helping fund the server. I forgot.

All the crying I hear here about "letting people play their way" and the group that has been deliberately excluded from that are people that would like a PvP sandbox. But that is ok ... cuz they are bad anyway.

Wow sounds like you came into the game knowing how it was then because your complaining didn't change it to the way you wanted it your upset now?

PVPers are not bad, no idea who you think said that?

You can play "Your way" but there are limitations, it is like can't go into Burger King and have it "Your Way" and get a raw meat patty on a bun.


I would like to know how Open is not a PVP Sandbox.

 

[torquedsoul]

This whole discussion shifted to this because you can't shoot someone down who's playing CG/PP in solo.

That is the most idiotic thing that I have heard. You have crystallized the lunacy of this thread perfectly with that comment.

I don't give a crap about people playing in solo. I simply don't want their actions to impacting the efforts of PvP players.

The real questions is why do PvE'ers want to be able to impact and interfere with the activities of PvP'ers. Do you have some old grudge from some other game. Is this your chance to get even and crap all over those mean PvP'ers that hurt you once?

Insanity.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Right. I get it.

Frontier doesn't like PvP play. People who play PvP are bad.

Your arguments are weak so just act smug and drop a smiley.

maybe frontier would like to give out refunds to all those trolls that thought that they would be able to play PvP in a sandbox.

Right ... the troll's money is helping fund the server. I forgot.

All the crying I hear here about "letting people play their way" and the group that has been deliberately excluded from that are people that would like a PvP sandbox. But that is ok ... cuz they are bad anyway.

Such a stupid rant. You can create a PvP group (like Moebius is for PvE players) and you can shoot each other ad libitum. No need for separate servers/universes etc. Inside your group, you will have a PvP sandbox heaven. Quite simple.