Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Moosegun]

Open is but one of the play options. It is not the most important, nor the hardest.

I agree that it is only one of the options and that it is not the most important but surely it is the hardest? As it have every single threat that solo has but with the addition of other players, who can be the most aggressive and skilled opponents in the game by a long way. I play 90% in open because I enjoy it but sometimes I pop into solo, basically because it is so much easier. I normally do it when I am watching a film at the same time and just want to get some stuff done which doesn't require me paying that much attention.

I think the whole question of PP and game modes is a tricky one. PP at its core has a lot of functionality which is aimed at cooperative / faction vrs faction play. Solo mode allows you to bypass that. I am not sure what the fix is though.

 

[Mohrgan]

The fix is, that there are in-game ways to counter each action. A direct head to head on each attempt. Compete within the framework and let's not insist that the only way to counter an action is to shoot the opposing PC down. Anyone with a mind to can have an impact without encountering other pilots.

 

[jgm]

The fix is, that there are in-game ways to counter each action. A direct head to head on each attempt. Compete within the framework and let's not insist that the only way to counter an action is to shoot the opposing PC down. Anyone with a mind to can have an impact without encountering other pilots.

Please explain the in-game counter to a player in solo attempting to undermine a fortified control system.

 

[Moosegun]

Please explain the in-game counter to a player in solo attempting to undermine a fortified control system.

You fortify it? Once the fortify is triggered it doesnt matter at all what they undermine total is. Or at least that is what I thought

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You fortify it? Once the fortify is triggered it doesnt matter at all what they undermine total is. Or at least that is what I thought

Nope.

No Fortify or undermine = 100% upkeep
Fortify with no undermine = 0% upkeep
Fortify with undermine = 100% upkeep
No fortify with undermine = System enters turmoil.

 

[jgm]

You fortify it? Once the fortify is triggered it doesnt matter at all what they undermine total is. Or at least that is what I thought

I asked for a counter to a fortified control system. And yes undermining a fortified control system does have an impact.

 

[Mohrgan]

Please explain the in-game counter to a player in solo attempting to undermine a fortified control system.

If you look into the PP UI you will see that for every intended action there is a counter action. In my case, to Fortify my faction wants you to deliver Military Supplies. There is an opposition counter to that action based on how the other factions do their business, and you can follow the competition as it happens. I see the comparison between my faction and it's opposition. So, you do what that faction requires to oppose another groups Fortification. If it requires shooting down enemies you can shoot down NPC's to accomplish that. I'm sure you have seen that.

 

[jgm]

If you look into the PP UI you will see that for every intended action there is a counter action. In my case, to Fortify my faction wants you to deliver Military Supplies. There is an opposition counter to that action based on how the other factions do their business, and you can follow the competition as it happens. I see the comparison between my faction and it's opposition. So, you do what that faction requires to oppose another groups Fortification. If it requires shooting down enemies you can shoot down NPC's to accomplish that. I'm sure you have seen that.

Sorry, no. If my power holds a fortified control system then the other power can undermine it (resulting in an overall neutral status for the system and the loss of expansion CC) by carrying out operations in solo and there is *nothing* my power can do to stop it.

 

[Mohrgan]

Sorry, no. If my power holds a fortified control system then the other power can undermine it (resulting in an overall neutral status for the system and the loss of expansion CC) by carrying out operations in solo and there is *nothing* my power can do to stop it.

You can do the exact same thing to your opposition. If a Solo player can hurt you, a Solo player can help you.

 

[jgm]

You can do the exact same thing to your opposition. If a Solo player can hurt you, a Solo player can help you.

That isn't a counter. Decreasing another power's ability to expand is not a counter to decreasing my power's ability to expand. A counter to decreasing my power's ability to expand would be not decreasing my power's ability to expand. These are totally different things in the scope of powerplay.

 

[SteveLaw]

Sorry, no. If my power holds a fortified control system then the other power can undermine it (resulting in an overall neutral status for the system and the loss of expansion CC) by carrying out operations in solo and there is *nothing* my power can do to stop it.

If that is true then the mechanic needs to be changed so that the largest action wins. Not changed so that everyone plays in Open. Any action should be counterable without PvP. You can still PvP if you choose to, but if someone else chooses not to you should still be able to counter. That's not a fault of the modes, that's just bad design of PP. What if someone in Open undermines while every open players of the undermined Power is in bed or just not matched into an instance? Unlikely, maybe, but not impossible. Especially for the smaller Powers. The same problem occurs. It's got nothing to do with Open/Solo/Group.

 

[Mohrgan]

Fortifying counters Undermining, Undermining counters Fortification. That seems pretty simple. You are twisting to try and establish a PvP link, but it is weak at best.

 

[jgm]

If that is true then the mechanic needs to be changed so that the largest action wins. Not changed so that everyone plays in Open. Any action should be counterable without PvP. You can still PvP if you choose to, but if someone else chooses not to you should still be able to counter. That's not a fault of the modes, that's just bad design of PP. What if someone in Open undermines while every open players of the undermines Power is in bed? Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible. The same problem occurs. It's got nothing to do with Open/Solo/Group.

Of course it has to do with open/solo/group.

With solo it is impossible to stop others from undermining your system. With open it is not.

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Fortifying counters Undermining, Undermining counters Fortification. That seems pretty simple. You are twisting to try and establish a PvP link, but it is weak at best.

You have no understanding of Powerplay.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

This still seems to imply the premise that "If everyone plays in Open, my faction can stop any negative actions towards us by other players"... As anyone who has played a lot of Open and taken part in or tried to run blockades, the instancing system means that it is not possible to prevent all actions. The instancing mismatches due to connection speed, friends list, geo-location etc all impact in this.

If, after all that, the feeling is "Well at least if everyone was in Open we would have a chance"... that is an interesting viewpoint, not a guarantee of success.

 

[Robert Maynard]

This still seems to imply the premise that "If everyone plays in Open, my faction can stop any negative actions towards us by other players"... As anyone who has played a lot of Open and taken part in or tried to run blockades, the instancing system means that it is not possible to prevent all actions. The instancing mismatches due to connection speed, friends list, geo-location etc all impact in this.

If, after all that, the feeling is "Well at least if everyone was in Open we would have a chance"... that is an interesting viewpoint, not a guarantee of success.

It still wouldn't cover the situation where players on other platforms are in opposition....

 

[fademist]

Of course it has to do with open/solo/group.

With solo it is impossible to stop others from undermining your system. With open it is not.

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You have no understanding of Powerplay.

no it hasnt DB said: SOLO BALANCE SOLO PLAYERS....
ang jgm u dont understand the game mechanics he does....

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It still wouldn't cover the situation where players on other platforms are in opposition....

shhh all in time if FD do what they want after solo is group and then the others platforms ;p

 

[SteveLaw]

Of course it has to do with open/solo/group.

With solo it is impossible to stop others from undermining your system. With open it is not.

If you are correct that fortifying does not counter undermining then it has nothing to do with Solo or Open. If the matchmaking system does not match me with you, then you cannot counter me even if we are both in Open. If the only way to counter an undermine action is by shooting me down then that is a flaw in Power Play irrespective of the modes. You might argue that it's unlikely to happen in Open and guaranteed to happen in Solo but that's not the point (and relative). It COULD happen even if everyone played in Open. Therefore it has nothing to with Open, Solo or Group.

FD made the game with the modes from the beginning, if the modes highlight a gap in the mechanism then the flaw is that gap in the mechanism not the fact that the modes highlight it. They should have taken the modes into account to provide indirect, as well as direct, counters for every action. If an indirect counter is missing then that needs to be added, not force everyone into direct conflict.

 

[Jockey79]

UO at first sucked because it was rife with PKers, camping the newbie areas, releasing dragons in towns, whole bunch of stupid crap .

And of course, there are none of those types of players in ED who just want to sit and gank newbies by cheap ramming in Orcas.

All open PvP games suck at the start, until a certain set of people get bored and leave. Alas, ED is too entertaining and they just won't leave yet

So what is this?

The third or fourth version?

Even after being throw into the basement the sparring continues.

Never mind still a few rings to go. Watch out though, I do hear the nineth is dangerous.

1) This is the second mega thread (tis in the title) but not the second on the topic. I was in three (3) threads before the first mega explaining Modes were part of the game right from KS. I though the mega would mean I'd not have to keep explaining it - oh was I wrong

2) We are back out of the basement !!!

Of course it has to do with open/solo/group.

With solo it is impossible to stop others from undermining your system. With open it is not.

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You have no understanding of Powerplay.

You have no understanding how the game works. Even in Open, at best you will see maybe 12 people in your instance. The "hard cap" is 32 - but forcing the matchmeker to do it is a whole new meta ball game.
You are NEVER and can NEVER see all the people working against you.
And you can counter, EVERY PP shows how to achieve and counter each goal, if your team works harder/ faster than the other team, your team wins - modes have nothing to do with that.

 

[jgm]

no it hasnt DB said: SOLO BALANCE SOLO PLAYERS....
ang jgm u dont understand the game mechanics he does....

I'm pretty sure I do. Let me try to put it really simply:

CC is not a zero-sum game.

Taking CC away from another power does not balance out loss of your own CC.

 

[Mortiferus]

how do i set up a solo group? I tried it with my friend and it did not work. We created a group and both clicked on solo group button... nothing happened.