Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Derath]

When you are seeking to change the game to benefit a certain group of players it isn't your "opinion" that is your agenda. At that point it isn't opinions, it is a discussion. It is the right of others to say NO!

Those saying no do not have an agenda, YOU do. Your the one trying to change things to benefit yourself and your play style, others be damned. Claiming that I have an "agenda" against you is a fallacy argument and Red Herring. You can't win the argument that your play style is so important that the game has to be changed to benefit you so instead you start attacking the defenders of the game.

Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired, like what is all this? Go find some quotes for anything your saying

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No, you seek to have the balance changed in favour of one mode - YOUR mode.
He seeks to keep things equal and fair, as they are and have been since the start.

Right now, we all get the same rewards for the work - regardless of what mode we are in.
The only thing that impacts that, is if you are being social and letting others interrupt or enhance your game - and why should you get paid for, for being sociable while those working hard get penalised for not being sociable?

As the game stands, right now we all have the same choices and are equal. Any change will mess up the balance.

Your another, go find a quote

the more defensive you get, the more it proves the point

 

[fademist]

Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired, like what is all this? Go find some quotes for anything your saying

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Your another, go find a quote

the more defensive you get, the more it proves the point

still u trying to twist facts i see keep it up in the end u will run out of tears

 

[Derath]

still u trying to twist facts i see keep it up in the end u will run out of tears

good luck with that disillusionment, it'll carry you far, anyone else want to join in? the more people jump in to say I said something I didn't the better it looks.

 

[Jockey79]

Your another, go find a quote

Oh, I need to find a quote showing where you've decided the game needs changing, okay then;

I still think the best option is

A 2nd galaxy server with open-only and a new character.

Boom, both parties are happy - and i bet even the solo people would play on it because it would be the more interesting galaxy, they just like to solo swap to max efficiency in safety lmao.

That is a game changing idea you're putting forward.
People are responding to it.

Now why don't you go find my quote in post 3, page 1 an have a read - it explains the game and the games plan, right from day 1.

 

[Derath]

You do know my name isn't Daffan right?

You literally went to find a quote, then quoted somebody else... I couldn't make this up if i tried.

 

[SteveLaw]

You do know my name isn't Daffan right?

You literally went to find a quote, then quoted somebody else... I couldn't make this up if i tried.

All you people look the same.

 

[Derath]

All you people look the same.

apparently so

 

[Jockey79]

You do know my name isn't Daffan right?

You literally went to find a quote, then quoted somebody else... I couldn't make this up if i tried.

I'm trying to play the game and post under the Steam browser, not burning to a crisp while scooping is way more important that getting your name right

Will fix when I dock - sorry about that.

 

[Cody]

All you people look the same.

apparently so

<sniggers>

 

[Jockey79]

Its not about player population, I actually like how rare it is to find people in open i'm not salty about lack of targets or anything of the sort, its about knowing that everyone had the same rules when playing in the sandbox.

This is the post I meant to quote, you are litterally saying not everyone plays by the same rules. The is one heck of an accusation to make. Making an accusation that I'm playing by different rules, it is in part offensive and also unfounded.

So, tell me how I'm playing by different rules to you?
Because as far as I know, the game works EXACTLY the same in EVERY mode - and I have played in every mode, so unless I've missed some major part of the game I have no idea how you've come to that opinion.

As I said, we are all currently equal in the eyes of the game.
Any change in the current set up, will break the balance.

[Disclaimer: Steam browser does not have a spell check and I'm posting while piloting - post may contain errors]

 

[rckstr]

I feel excluded. I wonder why there was no reaction on my latest statement.
Really, without the intention to provoke someone I am interested what you think about what I said. It feels like the Pro Solo Faction ignored it intentional, so I'll repeat it together with the quote I responded to.

As I said, I am not playing PP, but I can imagine that donating credits can be OK. After all, you can help some minor faction in a system via donation mission. So, why not in PP. After all, politics is a game of money and about money, nihil novum sub solis.

And still PP with its implementation and it's scenario is not just pushing money around. It is more und you refuse to see that. How many people have complained about getting hostile to a big area after they pledged? What do you think the reason for their concerns is? Because pushing money around is dangerous? Right now it is a big time and money sink. If we would have PP just to open only you'd think twice if you pledge or not, because you'd get hostile. What do you think does being hostile to 9/10 factions bring? Danger and possible attacks. Attacks that have to be made to shift your power to the top. This is no charity event we are playing. You are hostile and you should encounter the risks of being so.

 

[Cody]

You feel excluded? <scratches head> No comment!

 

[Jockey79]

Well, I'm back in Open (again).

Still cannot find that big disadvantage people are talking about.
I'm jumping from system to system, come on folks give me a clue - where is the disadvantage hiding?

My NPCs are worth the same, my merits are worth the same, my princess still has blue hair and all the stuff I move in my T9 is the same value.

[I accept all friend requests by default, so if you want proof I'm in Open just drop the 79 and friend me]

 

[Derath]

This is the post I meant to quote, you are litterally saying not everyone plays by the same rules. The is one heck of an accusation to make. Making an accusation that I'm playing by different rules, it is in part offensive and also unfounded.

So, tell me how I'm playing by different rules to you?
Because as far as I know, the game works EXACTLY the same in EVERY mode - and I have played in every mode, so unless I've missed some major part of the game I have no idea how you've come to that opinion.

As I said, we are all currently equal in the eyes of the game.
Any change in the current set up, will break the balance.

[Disclaimer: Steam browser does not have a spell check and I'm posting while piloting - post may contain errors]

Ok there are two approaches here,

Firstly, that quote was a discussion with somebody about the idea that people who wanted open only wanted it because there would be a higher player population, it was talking about the mentality of why you'd want an open only server, not an encouragement to make one or a request to FD to make it so, if your going to quote a response you at least need to quote what I was responding to or give some indication of it.

Secondly I notice you have a Mobius banner, which is basically an admission that you don't play by the same rules that everyone else does, you made/joined a group so you could make your own. Is it so hard to understand that while you want to exclude pvp'ers, the pvp'ers might also want to exclude? Yes I realise you could make a pvp group btw however it would be a major pain in the bum to operate without a core ruleset supporting it.

much like my post you quoted, this is my view of why people feel the way they do, not a desire for FD to change the current platform.

 

[rckstr]

You feel excluded? <scratches head> No comment!

And who are you my little friend? I am unable to get even the slightest idea what you want to tell us with your throw-in post's. They really are... confusing.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I feel excluded. I wonder why there was no reaction on my latest statement.
Really, without the intention to provoke someone I am interested what you think about what I said. It feels like the Pro Solo Faction ignored it intentional, so I'll repeat it together with the quote I responded to.

The thing is, the Solo vs Open vs Groups debate has been going on for more than two and a half years now - Powerplay is only a recent addition to the argument of the group of players who want to see changes to Frontier's stated game design, i.e. three game modes; a shared galaxy state; the ability to select which game mode to play in on a session-by-session basis, a game design that has not changed regarding these core features.

 

[fademist]

much like my post you quoted, this is my view of why people feel the way they do, not a desire for FD to change the current platform.

if they didnt want to change things wont have like 16k pages total argue for that

 

[Derath]

This is the post I meant to quote, you are litterally saying not everyone plays by the same rules. The is one heck of an accusation to make. Making an accusation that I'm playing by different rules, it is in part offensive and also unfounded.

this bit in particular is completely overboard, I'm literally saying that people who want an open only server, or Ironman, want to know that everyone else played that way to. I didn't say you played a different game nor was it an accusation in any way. Why is reading comprehension in such short supply, the words are all there just put them together.

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if they didnt want to change things wont have like 16k pages total argue for that

I speak for myself not the other forum goers, theres probably 16k pages of racist ranting on reddit i'm not lumping you with them, so why do the same to me?

 

[Mouse]

Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired, like what is all this? Go find some quotes for anything your saying

Because it would achieve what the open onlys wanted all along, a server where they knew players could be found if playing, where you could find the people making changes wherever they might be.

This would be true, except there is "no right way to play" as long as it doesn't involve consequences for pvp, that has no right.

This is one of those classic arguments that misses the whole point of choose, if I want to stop people coming into a system my success doesn't hinge on my actions, it hinges on whether they choose to participate or not. That gives them a choice, while invalidating mine. It isn't even, and it isn't fair - its just choosing to let one person dictate their game and not the other

You guys are physically incapable of understanding this argument it seems, yes I am aware physical limitations stop you doing any activity that actually matters like blockading however all of you are saying my view matters and yours doesn't, and your view is apparently everyones play is equal (except when it isn't)

"Our freedoms to choose how to play the game stop at the point where our choice would require another player to play in a way that they do not want to." This is solo, you require another player to play in a way they do not want to.

Forcing someone to fight is exactly the same as forcing somebody who wants to not to.

Thats all well and good, it depends what game your trying to make however, much like the combat logging debate it needs to be realised that its a choice to benefit one player type over another nothing else. That is a design choice, but stop denying it or trying to make out that its fair.

This is yet another argument where you've attempted to disagree with me, yet actually all you've written is that any form of real PvP is removed by open/solo, cause your totally right comparing meaningful PvP to ED is exactly the same as me asking to be able to kill monsters with swords, because they are both fundamentally impossible currently, and always will be as long as solo and open are the same universe.

The ability to choose who you play with and who you don't remains a choice - its simple

You want to be able to choose who you play with, by switching modes

I want to be able to choose who I play with, by playing with people I know played open

These two choices are even and equal, they chose #1 - that is a design choice, it doesn't mean its right or best, everyone who wants to flip-flop is benefited, everyone who doesn't is penalized thats literally all there is to it and that is my only point.

However the high horses of the non pvp crowd continue to irritate me so I feel compelled to point this out, it was a choice they made, probably based on the number of players that would prefer it, it doesn't mean the current way is "fair" one group gains the other loses, they chose like this because the group that gains will almost certainly be larger than the one that doesn't.

Because the game is different if you play open all the time compared to if you play solo all the time, this difference ranges from extremely small if you go to the edge of space and hang out there to do whatever you want, but its enormous when it comes to taking part in things like community goals.

These are just some of your Quotes.. I don't want to flood the page. You say I have an agenda but you don't. It is rather clear who has the actual agenda. You have not liked how solo influences the universe that YOU in open work with and have wanted that changed since you started posting here..

 

[Derath]

These are just some of your Quotes.. I don't want to flood the page. You say I have an agenda but you don't. It is rather clear who has the actual agenda. You have not liked how solo influences the universe that YOU in open work with and have wanted that changed since you started posting here..

Many of these quotes are responses to other people which of course have been omitted, however you will notice they all have a trend, Its called why they want a server, not that they should change the current architecture.

Thanks for quoting my reading comprehension at the top btw, its necessary.

The thing I want to change is the lack of understanding present in the Open Vs Solo debate, everyone acts like this is the fairest implementation - it isn't, its by numbers the best implementation.

So consistently shouting at me about how i'm trying to force change on everybody is just putting words in my mouth, just because you think that's what i'm saying doesn't mean its what i'm saying. All I wanted from you is to stop quoting my posts then saying something completely unrelated about STOP CHANGING MY SERVERS STOP STOP STOP

I was never talking about changing your servers! Use your eyes your brain, read the words, think about them if you can, anything!

Those saying no do not have an agenda, YOU do. Your the one trying to change things to benefit yourself and your play style, others be damned. Claiming that I have an "agenda" against you is a fallacy argument and Red Herring. You can't win the argument that your play style is so important that the game has to be changed to benefit you so instead you start attacking the defenders of the game.

Look at this, you just quoted like every post i've made in this thread, where have I done any of that? You literally read three words then made the rest up.