Astronomy / Space No more event horizons?
- Thread starter Cody
- Start date
Hmm. Instead of "stuff go in, nothing comes out" we get "stuff go in, random information (may) leak out".
So, in effect (for any structures, be they physical or pure information or anything between) that region of extreme quantum turbulence acts like an event horizon, once you go in there's no way out - anything that escapes is some bits of irrecoverably scrambled information. Solves the information/firewall paradox though.
So, in effect (for any structures, be they physical or pure information or anything between) that region of extreme quantum turbulence acts like an event horizon, once you go in there's no way out - anything that escapes is some bits of irrecoverably scrambled information. Solves the information/firewall paradox though.
Hmm... maybe black holes should be renamed grey holes, or not-quite-black holes.
To borrow a quote:
And the article points that out, in the last paragraph:
Interesting to see what comes out of this (idea of Hawking's).
What i meant was Hawkings article http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.5761
Yes, the article refers to that Hawking's paper & states
This paper is a write up of a conference presentation, and would never have been picked up by Nature (or most other journals) if it wasn't by Steven Hawking .
As I have said in previous threads, a substantial part of the astronomical community doesn't even believe that the "the information paradox", that theorists are so worried about, applies to observable black holes (they are many orders of magnitude too big to evaporate)! And black holes that could evaporate are too small to capture anything. Hawking's paper just points out problems with previous theoretical attempts to solve the problem, and proposes his own solution.
.As I have said in previous threads, a substantial part of the astronomical community doesn't even believe that the "the information paradox", that theorists are so worried about, applies to observable black holes (they are many orders of magnitude too big to evaporate)! And black holes that could evaporate are too small to capture anything. Hawking's paper just points out problems with previous theoretical attempts to solve the problem, and proposes his own solution.
This paper is a write up of a conference presentation, and would never have been picked up by Nature (or most other journals) if it wasn't by Steven Hawking
As I have said in previous threads, a substantial part of the astronomical community doesn't even believe that the "the information paradox", that theorists are so worried about, applies to observable black holes (they are many orders of magnitude too big to evaporate)! And black holes that could evaporate are too small to capture anything. Hawking's paper just points out problems with previous theoretical attempts to solve the problem, and proposes his own solution.
It's useful having a Nasa Black hole specialist on the forum isn't it?
That in reality some 'solution' of the problem may exist is out of question.The problem is of pure theoretical nature, so it is understandable that an experimentalist doesnt bother with these questions. Nonetheless there is not yet a satisfying explanation to this theoretical problem: it is the question about the information loss (more precisely: the entropy) when you throw something inside. This doesnt have anything to do with the size of the black hole.
Sure, but in my opinion it is the least important question in all of physics; as an astrophysicist who can't impact daily life any less, this takes some saying
!I could be very naive here, but while entropy only increases without external influence, it is easily decreased by expending energy (e.g. Tidying your bedroom
). The change in gravitational potential energy in falling material is easily sufficient to remove the entropy of the falling material I would have thought... >10^13 joules per gram!Or you could be talking about something else entirely
!
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The question arises once you consider the black hole together with the infalling material as an isolated system. This is something different than considering only the infalling material as a system on which the black hole might externally apply work on.I could be very naive here, but while entropy only increases without external influence, it is easily decreased by expending energy (e.g. Tidying your bedroom
I could be very naive here, but while entropy only increases without external influence, it is easily decreased by expending energy (e.g. Tidying your bedroom
But the overall entropy of the system has increased because the energy expended to decrease the entropy of the system is greater than the order....
SECOND LAW WOOKIE, SECOND LAW.