Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Mohrgan]

No, each mode should not be left to their own devices. If it turns out that the modes don't work well, that one is better than another, should they not be changed? For another example, pvp piracy is better than pve piracy, is it wrong to give pve piracy a boost?
Why should that be the case? If PP was/is suffering from a population problem, should FD not be allowed to make changes because that is what the community wants? I'd say no, they should find the underlying reasons why, and try to fix them. I think it should be the same in this case.

What would constitute a Mode 'not working well'? Who and by what criteria would that be assessed? If FD sees players using Private Groups more than open, what motivation would they have to try and shift the population? What about open should be preserved above Group? Who do FD decide to listen to, the fewer player's in open, or the larger population in any of the Groups? I can see no reason fro FD to favor open, by bribing players to use that mode. It makes no sense to eliminate choice, or subsidize one mode over another. Letting the player decide each time they log in, especially since that is the status quo, is the fairest way to design the game.

I don;t aquatint the Mode Question with general game content. They are vastly different issues. I think PP mechanics are more akin to modules, ships, and missions. A player expects buffs and nerfs to specific items in the game, and that content is ever changing. The modes are part of the basic character of the game. The current design has been part of the game virtually since it's inception. What is the underlying reason for open having population issues?

So, to my overall question; what makes open worth penalizing the other modes? Why shouldn't each player be able to enjoy the game in their own way, without being bribed or coerced into an environment not of their choosing?

 

[Tuub t Tute]

The final hours of the Bast CG tonight were punctuated in Open by a hardened group of roleplayers hovering outside the mailslot in disposable sideys and eagles, crim-ramming speeding ships to turn the station guns hostile on them.
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Now the obvious answer is "don't speed in the NFZ". That is not an excuse for the deliberate disruption of a charity CG by undesirable characters, "Because they can"...

 

[KaizoMK]

The final hours of the Bast CG tonight were punctuated in Open by a hardened group of roleplayers hovering outside the mailslot in disposable sideys and eagles, crim-ramming speeding ships to turn the station guns hostile on them.
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Now the obvious answer is "don't speed in the NFZ". That is not an excuse for the deliberate disruption of a charity CG by undesirable characters, "Because they can"...

In this case the game mechanics actually favor non-griefers if players are aware. I'd rather the griefers be shadowbanned and essentially just phase in and out of the real servers, because frankly they've ruined amazing fun things for me. I'll never know the joy of explosive weapons...

 

[Mouse]

The final hours of the Bast CG tonight were punctuated in Open by a hardened group of roleplayers hovering outside the mailslot in disposable sideys and eagles, crim-ramming speeding ships to turn the station guns hostile on them.
-
Now the obvious answer is "don't speed in the NFZ". That is not an excuse for the deliberate disruption of a charity CG by undesirable characters, "Because they can"...

I wouldn't call them roleplayers..

 

[KaizoMK]

And how exactly is it possible to establish? I don't think anyone can argue that solo isn't a financially better option. Where the argument lies is if the increased chance of player interaction balances out the risk of decreased finances. Since that answer varies so wildly from person to person, there's no way to answer verify it. The only way to do so would be to get some concrete numbers from FD on the number of players, and breakdown of each profession, between the modes. Too bad they don't seen keen on releasing them. You have your guesses on what the number will say, I have mine.

Stop trying to bring "profitable" into the discussion because this isn't a competition, and the (insignificant) monetary differences between modes aren't the issue here.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I wouldn't call them roleplayers..

"People who engage in carnal relations with a female parent" didn't seem to scan...

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

So, to my overall question; what makes open worth penalizing the other modes? Why shouldn't each player be able to enjoy the game in their own way, without being bribed or coerced into an environment not of their choosing?

Because open mode requires people play in it to work properly. If it has a population problem, it's the only mode that suffers greatly. Solo, it doesn't matter if noone is playing it, it's always you plus npcs only. Group, it matters slightly whether or not people are playing it, but groups are mainly for small groups of friends. You'll always have people to play with there. If open has noone playing, it's not really open, now is it?

Stop trying to bring "profitable" into the discussion because this isn't a competition, and the (insignificant) monetary differences between modes aren't the issue here.

if money isn't the issue than what is?

 

[EdzUp]

All of this aside, I like the idea of two changes:
1) give players a hidden score increased by killing invalid targets (killing a player that isn't wanted, hostile, or lawless) and high scores gets shadowbanned. This would decay over time, giving a chance for said players to repent, while not completely removing the threat of wanton murder.

2) keep the escort bonus, and in addition allow ships to divert trade profits to other ships in the wing, either in a flat rate or at a percentage of profits.

3) instead of ship destruction and repurchase via insurance, your ship is salvaged at 1% hull and 0% module health. You spawn at the station and must decide what on your ship to repair. Repair costs should be altered such that full repair of modules, hull, and integrity should equal or exceed current insurance costs. This wouldn't change much for most people, except that you can choose to partially repair your ship if you're low on funds, and if you can't afford to fix it it'll stay docked and useless until you can. This'll add a lot of depth and preserve the threat of death, while putting players in less of a risk-averse position.

I feel all of these things are smart changes that can benefit the game as a whole, as well as encourage multiplayer/open to those who want to be social.

1) sounds like the Fugitive idea I had earlier it would allow other players to target them with impunity

2) FDEV wouldnt do that as it would be 'open to abuse' as the always say, one thing I would do is allow players to post on the BBS for 'escorts' and each ship in the wing flies at the same speed as the slowest ship and FSD's at the same time this keeps em together. Its one thing that really worked well in Freelancer and made for some amazing piracy runs.

3) I would make it so cargo would be forfeit for salvage costs this give a element of role playing about it, if someone has to go all over there to get you back the they require payment . Players could also be allowed to salvage as well this would also be a lucrative sideline.

 

[EdzUp]

The final hours of the Bast CG tonight were punctuated in Open by a hardened group of roleplayers hovering outside the mailslot in disposable sideys and eagles, crim-ramming speeding ships to turn the station guns hostile on them.
-
Now the obvious answer is "don't speed in the NFZ". That is not an excuse for the deliberate disruption of a charity CG by undesirable characters, "Because they can"...

Its this sort of thing that actually needs FDEV to get of their butt and do something, the lack of response would indicate that they dont intend to as 'its a valid play choice'. Heck if everything is a valid play choice maybe we should all cheat in the servers and blow everyone up we come across that we dont shows that we have the common sense to realise we want the game to continue and not go down the path of oblivion.

 

[Stigbob]

I honestly believe you have been ridiculously unlucky dude and i'm sorry to hear that. I've been rammed in a station once back before 1.2 i think, and that's about it.
And i've not heard of anyone else having had such problems in a very large group of friends. I'm sure these are generally pretty much isolated and few and far between in their nature.

This kind of thing really does not happen much anymore, honestly!

I wasn't unlucky my home base was next door to Lave (the griefers station of choice) from gamma onwards (October 2014) so I got a ringside seat to every new griefing trick as and when it started and I watched just how long it took ED to deal with it. It got boring really quickly (although I never actually lost my ship), I got sick of dodging through the letterbox and evading via a high wake. And I'm sick of the game being nerfed because of them.

 

[Mohrgan]

Because open mode requires people play in it to work properly. If it has a population problem, it's the only mode that suffers greatly. Solo, it doesn't matter if noone is playing it, it's always you plus npcs only. Group, it matters slightly whether or not people are playing it, but groups are mainly for small groups of friends. You'll always have people to play with there. If open has noone playing, it's not really open, now is it?

Every mode requires people. What makes open matter more than group or solo? Open is what open is. It's not more valuable, or important than the other two modes. If there isn't enough people in it to be viable, why should it get a benefit, or have a penalty attached to the other modes to prop it up? I am not convinced that open is deserving of special consideration. Can you make an argument that doesn't rely on 'because it's open'?

 

[KaizoMK]

Every mode requires people. What makes open matter more than group or solo? Open is what open is. It's not more valuable, or important than the other two modes. If there isn't enough people in it to be viable, why should it get a benefit, or have a penalty attached to the other modes to prop it up? I am not convinced that open is deserving of special consideration. Can you make an argument that doesn't rely on 'because it's open'?

No, he hasn't made a single point in at least four pages.

 

[EdzUp]

One thing that does come to mind also is the problem that everytime some idiot ruins the game like this forcing FDEV to look at the code to work a way to stop these idiots its pushing some new feature or some fix we want back further, maybe we can all agree that a single feature would suffice maybe the fugitive idea would suffice for now at least until FDEV have time to sort out a long term solution. Either that or allow players to put bounties on their heads the more players put a bounty on the more it accumulates but then that could be open to abuse too. At least the fugitive idea means everyone gets a shot if you will excuse the pun

 

[Mohrgan]

One thing that does come to mind also is the problem that everytime some idiot ruins the game like this forcing FDEV to look at the code to work a way to stop these idiots its pushing some new feature or some fix we want back further, maybe we can all agree that a single feature would suffice maybe the fugitive idea would suffice for now at least until FDEV have time to sort out a long term solution. Either that or allow players to put bounties on their heads the more players put a bounty on the more it accumulates but then that could be open to abuse too. At least the fugitive idea means everyone gets a shot if you will excuse the pun

I believe FD has sorted it. The three modes. If you don't like one environment, shift to another. If you can't find one you like, make your own. Many predicted that sooner rather than later open would devolve into a PvP zone, and nothing more.

FD have said that then psycho is a valid role. So be it. Let open be their playground. I dip in as the mood takes me, but I have set up shop in Mobius. Let things take their course.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Every mode requires people. What makes open matter more than group or solo? Open is what open is. It's not more valuable, or important than the other two modes. If there isn't enough people in it to be viable, why should it get a benefit, or have a penalty attached to the other modes to prop it up? I am not convinced that open is deserving of special consideration. Can you make an argument that doesn't rely on 'because it's open'?

Seriously? Are you intentionally messing with me? How does solo require anyone play in it?

The game requires people play it sure, but not solo. If you're the only one playing in solo, what does it matter? Youre not seeing anyone regardless. Group requires the people you play in the group to play, but noone else. Mobius is the only group I know of, that has a sizable population. It would suffer from lack of group population, but less so for the smaller ones.

Open is in a league of it's own since it's the multiplayer mode of elite.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Open is in a league of it's own since it's the multiplayer mode of elite.

Urm JC, aren't groups multiplayer too?

 

[EdzUp]

Urm JC, aren't groups multiplayer too?

Nah its a NPC pretending to be ya annoying friend LOL

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Urm JC, aren't groups multiplayer too?

Would it be better to say the match making multiplayer mode?

 

[KaizoMK]

Seriously? Are you intentionally messing with me? How does solo require anyone play in it?

The game requires people play it sure, but not solo. If you're the only one playing in solo, what does it matter? Youre not seeing anyone regardless. Group requires the people you play in the group to play, but noone else. Mobius is the only group I know of, that has a sizable population. It would suffer from lack of group population, but less so for the smaller ones.

Open is in a league of it's own since it's the multiplayer mode of elite.

I'm still waiting for the point, homes. It's been a long time waiting.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Would it be better to say the match making multiplayer mode?

Well all modes depend on the matchmaker. It might be better to say the No Idea Who You Will Play With mode