Operation Enigma, breaking the code!

[Nonya]

So let me see if I have this right. Your members infiltrated Möbius and had some pew pew lulz, just to show those PVE guys who is the boss and that nobody is safe from the might of Code.

Now minor factions are coming up, and the Code's minor faction is a sitting duck for the PVE might of Möbius to crush into utter insignificance. Now it's all hands to repair relations stations. Of course, if certain individuals had not engaged in naughty behaviour in the first place, this would be a complete non-issue.

You mention this like we care about a small faction in the game? News flash - the vast majority of us don't care anymore what solo/private groups do in-game to the BGS.
PowerlessPlay has proven that the single BGS tied to 3 different "modes" is a broken game mechanic. We experimented with manipulating the BGS faction system a long time ago and got bored of it.
We truly don't care about people we never see in Open doing things in Private Group/Solo that we don't care about.
But hey, if folks want to waste their time doing this then go for it! Enjoy yourselves! Have a blast!
We'll keep on keepin' on, doing whatever we want, where we want, when we want. And all in open for the benefit of others to enjoy as well.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What happened with the mode invasion was done by two members in the very distant past, and I have no interest in why was it done, since it isn't something we endorse.

And those members are no longer part of your group?

Minor faction mechanics are being looked at to ensure that people won't get undermined unreasonably by using different modes, FD made it very clear.

Members who wish to see goodwill from Mobius are members that did not engage nor endorse any of the mode invasion activities, thus they wish to convey through me their look on the issue.

Did CODE kick these members out?
Did the members in question send an official apology to Mobius?

 

[Ian Phillips]

And who is responsible for making these games design choices Mr. Phillips?

Jeez. Aggressive or what?

Not you or me Thank God. Nor the DDF members, or anyone else that has had what they think is a 'good idea' on how to make the game.

Don't you like the design? It allows players to do what the game is to let them do - play it their way. If you don't like 'their' way, do what I do - play in another part of the vast galaxy.

 

[GluttonyFang]

And those members are no longer part of your group?

They still are, however, at the time there was no stipulation against "mode invasion." We do not endorse ex post facto law, and we stand by the principle of nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali.

Did CODE kick these members out?
Did the members in question send an official apology to Mobius?

We did not kick said members for the reason explained above.

I am unaware if the members in question sent an apology to Mobius. I have no right to force an apology from a member, in the sense that everyone is knowledgeable of consequences of their action. How they wish to interact with other players is their choice, violation of the code will eventually or immediately lead to termination. I can and will make suggestion that the members in question should apologize formally, but I have no right to force them to. Like I said, actions and consequences.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I believe I can ask the same, what has Mobius done that deserve goodwill?

I believe the two group should express mutual respect for both being player group and coexist in the game.

Hmmm. I suspect you are on a wind-up here and/or are toying with people... naughty.

Just (another) minor nitpick; Mobius is a private group mode that players can request to join and the only interaction with the rest of the game is by players in that same private group mode, and of course the BGS/PP, and NOC's

Your group is an Open Mode group who can encounter anyone else in Open, except those in a private group or who are playing in solo mode.

Therefore 'both being player group and coexist in the game' isn't exactly correct now, is it. You're conflating the two modes. Also, Mobius isn't a guild/clan/player group like yours is, it's merely the name of the CMDR who started his own private grouping mode - it's not a clan/guild/player group in any way in fact.

Ergo, I cannot see where your call for 'mutual respect' is in any way valid

 

[GluttonyFang]

Hmmm. I suspect you are on a wind-up here and/or are toying with people... naughty.

Just (another) minor nitpick; Mobius is a private group mode that players can request to join and the only interaction with the rest of the game is by players in that same private group mode, and of course the BGS/PP, and NOC's

Your group is an Open Mode group who can encounter anyone else in Open, except those in a private group or who are playing in solo mode.

Therefore 'both being player group and coexist in the game' isn't exactly correct now, is it. You're conflating the two modes. Also, Mobius isn't a guild/clan/player group like yours is, it's merely the name of the CMDR who started his own private grouping mode - it's not a clan/guild/player group in any way in fact.

Ergo, I cannot see where your call for 'mutual respect' is in any way valid

In the end, we both share the same galaxy in the strictest sense, which is the point I'm making.

The Code and Mobius see to enjoy the game differently, however, intrinsically they are both player groups (I interpret Mobius' principle and the way of advertisement to be akin to a player group, thus I placed it under the category). We have different ideals, but since we both occupy the same galaxy in the strictest sense, I don't see why mutual respect cannot be established.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Indeed - it kind of smacks a little of panicked realisation that their background sim faction is perhaps going to get pummeled by potentially everyone they have miffed off, with absolutely nothing they can do about it.

Didn't you explicitly state that you believed Möbius to be another universe because you could not interact with them in any way meaningful to you? They certainly can interact with you, as can anyone else who so chooses.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

You are free to interpret as you wish, however I wish to emphasize that we have stated and do stand by that we are not related to any EvE player groups.

For any EvE player watching the Hutton event unfold, and I mean any EvE player, it's not just the same as watching lightning strike twice in the same place. It's like watching Lightning strike the same slot machine twice, causing it to spin triple 7's twice, and pay out the same jackpot down to the last chip twice.

Uncanny fails to describe it if it is a coincidence. Hell, even the grammar used by some of your members in the descriptions of what they did is identical to some of the posts I've read on the EvE forums doing the same thing: Explaining why there was no issue with what C.O.D.E. did and nothing wrong was done, how it was actually the fault of the PvE players for asking for game mechanics that can be exploited and for not preparing for conflict, and then telling them that it could have all been avoided by doing things those players have no desire to nor will ever do.

Your members are even seasoned practicioners of C.O.D.E's propaganda.

 

[c48113]

And neither is using Solo or Group mode, as for good will, I have zero for code.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They still are, however, at the time there was no stipulation against "mode invasion." We do not endorse ex post facto law, and we stand by the principle of nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali.

Is that the principle to unnecessarily talk Latin in order to sound posh?

We did not kick said members for the reason explained above.

I am unaware if the members in question sent an apology to Mobius. I have no right to force an apology from a member, in the sense that everyone is knowledgeable of consequences of their action. How they wish to interact with other players is their choice, violation of the code will eventually or immediately lead to termination. I can and will make suggestion that the members in question should apologize formally, but I have no right to force them to. Like I said, actions and consequences.

I didn't expect you to force them to apologize. When you force people to apologize it's often not meant.

So question then remains. There's good reasons for Mobius to be averse against CODE. But your members seem to expect goodwill from them.

What did CODE do to deserve this goodwill?



My opinion is much simpler than that. As a group I would not want the kind of players who acted as they did in my group. If I were in Mobius, and I heard CODE feared their faction was being opposed by us, I'd think "Katatraya stayeftika"

I believe I can ask the same, what has Mobius done that deserve goodwill?

Nothing. They don't desire goodwill from you.

Or do you consider not having your members infiltrate and break their rules as goodwill?

 

[IronGremlin]

They still are, however, at the time there was no stipulation against "mode invasion." We do not endorse ex post facto law, and we stand by the principle of nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali.



We did not kick said members for the reason explained above.

I am unaware if the members in question sent an apology to Mobius. I have no right to force an apology from a member, in the sense that everyone is knowledgeable of consequences of their action. How they wish to interact with other players is their choice, violation of the code will eventually or immediately lead to termination. I can and will make suggestion that the members in question should apologize formally, but I have no right to force them to. Like I said, actions and consequences.

That's some pretty bogus verbiage.

I think if you want good will from others, you need to do something to show to the rest of the community that you're willing to govern your members who behave distastefully.

I get how retroactively enforcing law is certainly not how you want your group to be run, but you should make it a policy that continued participation in CODE is contingent on displaying respect for the new policies by issuing a public apology to the aggrieved.

Simply saying you can't force anyone to apologize just reinforces the perception that your group is a haven for this kind of despicable behavior.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

edit: expected automerge, please delete

 

[GluttonyFang]

For any EvE player watching the Hutton event unfold, and I mean any EvE player, it's not just the same as watching lightning strike twice in the same place. It's like watching Lightning strike the same slot machine twice, causing it to spin triple 7's twice, and pay out the same jackpot down to the last chip twice.

Uncanny fails to describe it if it is a coincidence. Hell, even the grammar used by some of your members in the descriptions of what they did is identical to some of the posts I've read on the EvE forums doing the same thing: Explaining why there was no issue with what C.O.D.E. did and nothing wrong was done, how it was actually the fault of the PvE players for asking for game mechanics that can be exploited and for not preparing for conflict, and then telling them that it could have all been avoided by doing things those players have no desire to nor will ever do.

Your members are even seasoned practicioners of C.O.D.E's propaganda literature.

I also read about EvE players' commentary on the Hutton situation. It is understandable why they are very disdainful toward this community for the differences between the community of the two games. As a lot of members of the community have express here, they don't like the EvE community. Thus I find it logical that EvE players are calling this community out for being "carebears," "casuals," "whiners."

I don't endorse the disdain from the EvE players, but it makes sense for them to react and contemplate the way they did.

If there is truly convincing resemblance between EvE players and us, then we wouldn't spend extensive time in altering the way we do things and commit time to listen to the community's feedback.

 

[Vandaahl]

Indeed - it kind of smacks a little of panicked realisation that their background sim faction is perhaps going to get pummeled by potentially everyone they have miffed off, with absolutely nothing they can do about it.

Yes and then ask Mobius for goodwill. I promise it won't get any more confusing than this

 

[YoBuck]

This thread XD

oh dear Gluttony. If you kept quiet this might have all gone away. If advise a new PR strategy sir.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Nothing. They don't desire goodwill from you.

Or do you consider not having your members infiltrate and break their rules as goodwill?

I consider the majority of our members expressing respect for Mobius' play style, and some participating in Mobius and following their rules to be goodwill.

- - - Updated - - -

This thread XD

oh dear Gluttony. If you kept quiet this might have all gone away. If advise a new PR strategy sir.

I updated on the situation out of goodwill, some people wish to take advantage of it and continue their aggression. However, that is to be expected.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

My opinion is much simpler than that. As a group I would not want the kind of players who acted as they did in my group. If I were in Mobius, and I heard CODE feared their faction was being opposed by us, I'd think "Katatraya stayeftika"

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx

I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member

 

[YoBuck]

It's not good will. It's your own RP within an RP but that's a different convo.

Im just saying the best PR for code right now is silence.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

People are aware of their actions and the consequences that follow.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I consider the majority of our members expressing respect for Mobius' play style, and some participating in Mobius and following their rules to be goodwill.

I consider following the rules of the group you sign up in, is simple standard practice. Not an act of goodwill.