Universe Wide Chat... Why Is It Not A Thing?

[hunvagy]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure the inevitable transmissions of "You're all noobs!" count as short data bursts though.

Hahaha, I could soo see premade messages like that. But on a serious note, If it's entirely optional and people feel they absolutely need it, FD probably will consider it. But seeing how fickle Local is with the P2P structure, I can't see something connecting everyone working without a server structure. Imagine the game trying to P2P match 800k network locations just to establish a comm channel >.>

 

[Varrag]

+100 rep coming to you dear commander! I`m shocked such a simple feature is causing such a discussion. Its ridiculous. "its immersion breakin", "it would kill the game for me"... Turn It Off - all of your problems solved with one click people.

It is indeed ridiculous to build multiplayer game without some of the most fundamental multiplayer functionality, like custom chat channels. For as long as it's optional, just like multiplayer itself is an option, it can't possibly be an immersion killer. You don't like it... well, don't use it.

I am pretty sure that the devs will have to work on in-game comms at some point and make it easier for players to congregate and socialize if they so wish. FDEV doesn't have much experience with online games, all this is kind of new for them too, but they are learning.

 

[anikaiful]

Imagine the game trying to P2P match 800k network locations just to establish a comm channel >.>

It'd drive away from the game everyone without 100Mb/s+ fibre connection.

 

[Khelder]

But seeing how fickle Local is with the P2P structure, I can't see something connecting everyone working without a server structure. Imagine the game trying to P2P match 800k network locations just to establish a comm channel >.>

It would be controlled using a central server. There's no point in trying to use P2P for global communication. The client already communicates constantly with the ED servers. I don't think the addition of a few messages every now and then would add a great deal to the payload. It would be highly compressible data too.

 

[lysan]

+100 rep coming to you dear commander! I`m shocked such a simple feature is causing such a discussion. Its ridiculous. "its immersion breakin", "it would kill the game for me"... Turn It Off - all of your problems solved with one click people.

A PP channel will not be Immerse breaking at all, however a global chat will. I'm all for a PP chat \ voice channel and I truly believe that we need it badly.

 

[anikaiful]

The client already communicates constantly with the ED servers.

It actually doesn't do that. It communicates with server only when there's a "good reason to" (when selling goods, when blown up an enemy/got blown up by self, when selling cartographics and when a scan of this or that place completes). Other than necessities, your computer could as well lose network connection now and then and it'd not cause a hitch.

Just watch your bandwidth usage in game (ctrl+b), it barely ever does anything if there isn't lot of player activity nearby.

 

[deMangler]

It would just make the Galaxy seem small and crowded.

 

[Hawkmoon]

Not having global chat is a core part of the game dynamic, to reinforce the idea that you are out there alone, you might meet another commander and shoot the breeze while you are both in the same system. But once you jump out again you will be light years apart how would you be able to communicate in real time?

 

[hunvagy]

It would be controlled using a central server. There's no point in trying to use P2P for global communication. The client already communicates constantly with the ED servers. I don't think the addition of a few messages every now and then would add a great deal to the payload. It would be highly compressible data too.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I mean myself, that if it's implemented, they need a server architecture for it, even if it would be using the universe servers. As it is now, every type of communication you have is point to point (eg. Direct to a single commander, 4 in your wing, or local up to 32). And local itself already likes to not do the handshake correctly, half the time I'm not even sure people see my messages.

 

[lenna]

you will be light years apart how would you be able to communicate in real time?

Theoretically: Quantum entanglement devices one-pair per commander with every commander paired with a central exchange.
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I do not support the idea in general, but the above is a possible RW theoretical physics based solution.

 

[Khelder]

It actually doesn't do that. It communicates with server only when there's a "good reason to" (when selling goods, when blown up an enemy/got blown up by self, when selling cartographics and when a scan of this or that place completes). Other than necessities, your computer could as well lose network connection now and then and it'd not cause a hitch.

Just watch your bandwidth usage in game (ctrl+b), it barely ever does anything if there isn't lot of player activity nearby.

Cool. I never knew about the Ctrl-B thing.

Regardless, it does actually communicate a little bit more than that. "Constantly" might be a little bit much, but fairly often. I just logged on to Solo, launched and flew around for a little bit. I used Wireshark to capture UDP traffic during that time (3:23 min).

Packets: 118
Avg packets/sec: 0.638
Avg packet size: 84 bytes
Total bytes: 9921
Avg bytes/sec: 53.667

Assuming it was active during gameplay (ie not just viewable via game menu), chat would add a bit to this. But I don't think it would be overly burdensome.

From a gameplay perspective, I don't think a general global chat wouldn't be all that useful. You would drown in the noise. PP chat, maybe. Area chat, maybe. Channels, maybe.

 

[Serapo]

This conversation took place many times before, and I still say that local system communications, and a bigger hub in the Stations would be nice. So would be some form of group communication for Power Play. I don't think fondly of zone and global though, but that is just a personal preference.

This post wins!

 

[CMDR Enceph Sagan]

This post wins!

I agree. I would also be against Galaxy-wide, but at least system wide (and planet wide with Horizons) or even the system you are currently in and the ones within 2-3 jumps maybe?

 

[anikaiful]

Cool. I never knew about the Ctrl-B thing.

Regardless, it does actually communicate a little bit more than that. "Constantly" might be a little bit much, but fairly often. I just logged on to Solo, launched and flew around for a little bit. I used Wireshark to capture UDP traffic during that time (3:23 min).

Packets: 118
Avg packets/sec: 0.638
Avg packet size: 84 bytes
Total bytes: 9921
Avg bytes/sec: 53.667

Ah - alright, I stand corrected (a bit) and there's slightly more communication between client/server. But yea, not a whole lot of stuff sent back nor forth.

 

[CMDR Enceph Sagan]

Oh jeez gimmie a break. If youre arguing against chat features in a game capable of online interaction youre simply an idiot. You should feel bad for selfishly naysaying a feature that alot of players do infact want, and the community would undoubtedly benefit from. If it breaks your immersion, tough tickle. Get over it. I could care less if your immersed, and its not everyone elses issue if you cant manage that.

Chat between PP factions is Needed, end of discussion, you cannot argue this fact.

Go to noobspace and try to get anyone to talk or wing with you. No one knows how to even use chat.
Teamspeak, facebook, twitter and the forums are ridiculous work arounds people who play or rp together are required to do in order to talk to each other. Youre telling me teamspeak is something acceptable in the community and not immersion breaking, yet having a chat system wide, minor faction wide, pp wide, friendslist wide... this breaks your immersion. Never use teamspeak again to talk with friends in ed, close all social media related profiles for your rp group, and youre no longer allowed to use the forum to discuss tactics in rp or pp.

Some of yall blow my mind. Get over yourselves. Mmos have been here for 10 years minimum, online gaming, even moreso, these communication tools should be provided in house, and are required to alot of players who arent you.

Do you want to run new players off so you can have your elitest dangerous the way you want? FDEV doesnt.

Hindering your community from interacting does not make ED more immersive. If you truly want this game to suceed and draw new players, these are required tools the community needs to grow.

this is this forever this

 

[lenna]

...

WRT TS, it is well respected for group VOIP communication in multiplayer games and is likely to be better at it than any in-game option, and in my experience typically is. The reasons for this are solid, the developers of tools such as TS are experts in that arena. While better integrated solutions may be nice, it is sometimes better to let players use the tools they are comfortable with rather than jerry-rigging an in-game alternative.
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We do not need a global universe wide chat system, which is what I think most are objecting to.
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PP Faction/Friends/Group chat on the other hand is only really a nicety. We have direct to player and map chat already.

 

[Varrag]

Just watch your bandwidth usage in game (ctrl+b), it barely ever does anything if there isn't lot of player activity nearby.

Yes, but IRC-like service takes miniscule amount of bandwith, effectively negligible. Let's say you have global chat opened and there are 50.000 players logged, each one of them typing 100 characters (= bytes) per minute (not going to happen, ofc, but let's see) - that's barely 0.6 Mbit/sec. Without compression. In reality, we are probably looking at less than 0.1 Mbit/sec.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes, but IRC-like service takes miniscule amount of bandwith, effectively negligible. Let's say you have global chat opened and there are 50.000 players logged, each one of them typing 100 characters per minute (not going to happen, ofc, but let's see) - that's barely 0.6 Mbit/sec. And that's without compression.

.... but that's just the data being sent to the chat server(s). The chat server(s) then needs to send that data to all of the players - somewhere in the region of 33Gbps (uncompressed) outgoing data from the server - just for chat (in an admittedly simplistic analysis).

Compare that to the example above of 9921 bytes of traffic to the server for a player in Solo over 3m23s - about 390bps - multiplied by 50,000 players, that would be 19.5Mbps.

Plus, there's the fact that it would be impossible to follow a global chat window with 50,000 messages coming in per minute....

 

[Lustan]

This would completely destroy the realistic and roleplay feel of the game. No sorry.

But having realtime text chat with someone who for all purposes could be on the other side of the galaxy is realistic?

I'm for "channels" that you could join,create and leave at will.

 

[lenna]

.... but that's just the data being sent to the chat server(s). The chat server(s) then needs to send that data to all of the players - somewhere in the region of 33Gbps (uncompressed) outgoing data from the server - just for chat (in an admittedly simplistic analysis).

Compare that to the example above of 9921 bytes of traffic to the server for a player in Solo over 3m23s - about 390bps - multiplied by 50,000 players, that would be 19.5Mbps.

Plus, there's the fact that it would be impossible to follow a global chat window with 50,000 messages coming in per minute....

WRT potential bandwidth usage, that is an overly simplistic way of looking at it. There are ways and means that the traffic can be managed without server bandwidth growing exponentially or even perhaps linearly. However, overall if people want an integrated "text" chat facility that goes beyond that which ED currently provides then perhaps incorporating an IRC (or Twitter) client into the game UI could be an answer. I am unsure of the commercial and legal implications of doing this but doing that would enable a "global"/"group" chat facility without encroaching on FD's server provisions for ED.
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Alternatively, I am sure there are game overlays for IRC and/or Twitter that could be used and possibly skinned to feel more ED-like (c/f Overwolf which works for atleast TS3, or even the Steam Overlay)