Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Roybe]

By the way, any Open players realize yet that the game is making clean players targets of assassinations? Check out this screen cap. I was flying with a friend when he noticed I was a mission target...the only mission he had was kill traders. We have also seen missions to kill explorers...so apparently, the game is now checking your Elite status and seeing if you can be added to the target list for kill x number of y types. (kill 2 traders, kill 5 explorers)

So how's this working for folks? Anyone ready to leave Open now?

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You know that doesn't address the point I'm making.

It doesn't help people who'd like to enjoy the game in open with like minded people.

The ones that you won't see anyway because they stay in Mobius if nothing changes so it couldn't possibly harm you if they had a PVE login you couldn't see them in either.

I hope someday someone can answer this for you. Currently...no one can.

BTW...did you know they closed private groups (and wings!) to XBone players? It is uncertain if they will get access to that once the game is released for them?

 

[Jockey79]

Um.....that's what solo is for? Don't get me wrong, I'm only solo mode, not bashing it at all, but it seems that the CHOICE is what sets this game apart. Nothing is forced on anyone.

Well, as you wanted to edit out the relevant part to what I said, I'll put it again;

Right now, there is no multiplayer PvE mode - for an "MMO" that is poor. Even World of Warships and World of Planes have Player V. AI matches to practice in before going to the Player V. Player games.

See how you ignored the context of the example given?

All "MULTIPLAYER MODES" are PvP enabled.
There is no "MULTIPLAYER" PvE.

Loads of us thought there was, but after CODE decided to point out how wrong we were - now some of us want what was promised and funded at the start;

We want that co-op MMO game. You know, the one with "Play your way" tag line.... which right now, I cannot play my way - I have to play in accordance to what PvPers want.

 

[ianw]

By the way, any Open players realize yet that the game is making clean players targets of assassinations? Check out this screen cap. I was flying with a friend when he noticed I was a mission target...the only mission he had was kill traders. We have also seen missions to kill explorers...so apparently, the game is now checking your Elite status and seeing if you can be added to the target list for kill x number of y types. (kill 2 traders, kill 5 explorers)

So how's this working for folks? Anyone ready to leave Open now?






http://i.imgur.com/k5T5uKF.png

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I hope someday someone can answer this for you. Currently...no one can.

lol @ the mission target - maybe they're trying to tell you something...

And my post wasn't a question - I was stating my opinion - it doesn't require an answer though obviously people are free to comment on it.

 

[Jockey79]

my 2 cents

My guild has created a private group of folks we know won't cheat and are good people to PVE and PVP with. The group has about 200 folks in it now, folks we have picked up from other MMO's such as STO, EVE, and ESO. We have also picked up players from other server hosted games in which we own a server for including ARK, 7D2D, and SE. What I'm saying is, I don't really understand the point of burdening the devs, when it is a lot easier to create a sub forum dedicated to those that have these bigger groups going that may have a condition of PVE or whatnot. This is not something that would affect my crew in the least, it is a closed group and invitation only through those that we have known for a while in TeamSpeak (and their closest friends), but I do know that many groups out there exist with massive player bases in group play that have just 2 conditions to play with them: PVE only and no cheating.

Mobius is a closed group, does not stop unwanted PvP from people who lie to join.

 

[Roybe]

lol @ the mission target - maybe they're trying to tell you something...

And my post wasn't a question - I was stating my opinion - it doesn't require an answer though obviously people are free to comment on it.

I got the message! There's no such thing as griefing in this game!

 

[Faded Glory]

My belief, after various discussions with devs from Frontier, is that they expect the community to handle morality issues among themselves.

If someone slights you, players have the option to smite another player or group, or find safety/non-conflict in the Private modes.

There are new tools coming for group administration...in the Later™ and Someday™ range of game dev parlance.

If that's the case, then I think that is a very poor attitude.

I'm perfectly fine that they have Open as an anything goes mode, no safety nets, but the problem with having players 'police' it, especially with the instanced networking is stretching it a bit, not to mention that many players who don't want PvP not only don't like being shot by a player, but don't like shooting other players either. This is why an official PvE mode is so important for the community at large.

I guess one will have to wait and see what the group admin tools bring, if and when they ever come, but this attitude does nothing towards satisfying players on either side of this debate. If they want players to handle this stuff themselves, which IMO if true is a bit of a cop out, then they for sure need a better framework in which to do it.

(This is not aimed in any way at you Roybe... Just commenting on what you have gleaned from FD)

 

[Robert Maynard]

I got the message! There's no such thing as griefing in this game!

That's quite a bold assertion....

 

[Mouse]

did u like how i wrote "Like 2 days" I live in Australia so different TZ , i posted, went to bed (sleep in day, night is work) and then came back.

One post was at 2:33am and the one i did before it was 8:33 am the day before



Why would we care that open pve would be released?

it already exists.... wouldn't change a single thing in this topic

fail burn imo

Funny... I lived in Australia for a little while and while yes we are different time zones and international dateline every Australian I know and all that I met while there could tell when less than 24 hours have passed. I also have a rather unique schedule that spans day and night and can still tell time.


Your post times are as follow taken directly form the forum so they show forum time: 26/09/2015, 5:56 PM then Yesterday, 11:33 AM Yesterday was 27/09/2015 since today is the 28/09/2015 literally less than 18 hours which is a far cry from like 2 days.


And if you think I'm trying to pull a fast one.. it is very easy to look at your profile and see.

I also find it very interesting that AGAIN.. you blatantly ignore everything else said and focus in on something you think you can snipe about, and I laughed at the comment to Jockey with the "Fail burn" .. we are adults here having a discussion not teens trying to insult each other.. especially since that is forbidden.

and again.. I'm still awaiting your clarification answer to this..

Originally Posted by Mouse
Funny I have that same feeling about mindlessness of PVP, PVE is actually vibrant to me.

And said this

Originally Posted by Daffan
I'm sure you do, considering AI haven't become sentinent yet or unscripted. Unless i missed something about Elite's emergent AI.


and has yet to respond to this.

Originally Posted by Mouse
I would love for you to explain this comment.. maybe you misread, or are trying to do a veiled insult or something.. how does my feeling that PVP is mindless and PVE is vibrant to me (not to everyone).. equate to your comment? I'm assuming that you misread and thought I said the mindlessness of PVE (which is not true) or are you trying to insinuate something about me since I find PVE vibrant and the AI isn't sentient or unscripted.. please clarify..

 

[fademist]

Funny... I lived in Australia for a little while and while yes we are different time zones and international dateline every Australian I know and all that I met while there could tell when less than 24 hours have passed. I also have a rather unique schedule that spans day and night and can still tell time.


Your post times are as follow taken directly form the forum so they show forum time: 26/09/2015, 5:56 PM then Yesterday, 11:33 AM Yesterday was 27/09/2015 since today is the 28/09/2015 literally less than 18 hours which is a far cry from like 2 days.


And if you think I'm trying to pull a fast one.. it is very easy to look at your profile and see.

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab303/Baigsnmouse/times.jpg

I also find it very interesting that AGAIN.. you blatantly ignore everything else said and focus in on something you think you can snipe about, and I laughed at the comment to Jockey with the "Fail burn" .. we are adults here having a discussion not teens trying to insult each other.. especially since that is forbidden.

and again.. I'm still awaiting your clarification answer to this..


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Mouse https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/buttons/viewpost-right.png
Funny I have that same feeling about mindlessness of PVP, PVE is actually vibrant to me.

And said this


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Daffan https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/buttons/viewpost-right.png
I'm sure you do, considering AI haven't become sentinent yet or unscripted. Unless i missed something about Elite's emergent AI.


and has yet to respond to this.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Mouse https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/buttons/viewpost-right.png
I would love for you to explain this comment.. maybe you misread, or are trying to do a veiled insult or something.. how does my feeling that PVP is mindless and PVE is vibrant to me (not to everyone).. equate to your comment? I'm assuming that you misread and thought I said the mindlessness of PVE (which is not true) or are you trying to insinuate something about me since I find PVE vibrant and the AI isn't sentient or unscripted.. please clarify..

dont expect any serius answer though besides the same old arguement that has died like 25k posts ago;p

 

[Roybe]

If that's the case, then I think that is a very poor attitude.

I'm perfectly fine that they have Open as an anything goes mode, no safety nets, but the problem with having players 'police' it, especially with the instanced networking is stretching it a bit, not to mention that many players who don't want PvP not only don't like being shot by a player, but don't like shooting other players either. This is why an official PvE mode is so important for the community at large.

I guess one will have to wait and see what the group admin tools bring, if and when they ever come, but this attitude does nothing towards satisfying players on either side of this debate. If they want players to handle this stuff themselves, which IMO if true is a bit of a cop out, then they for sure need a better framework in which to do it.

(This is not aimed in any way at you Roybe... Just commenting on what you have gleaned from FD)

Understood...just the main reason some of my stances are so rigid...I see the problems...can agree with them...but know that a lot of them will never happen..because 'it's not part of the vision'™ (unless the Vision™ suddenly changes...of course this could happen...but at this point...it's not likely for a lot of these issues).

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That's quite a bold assertion....

Well let me ask you Robert:

If someone shoots and kills you (without your permission)...in Open...because you are a high ranked trader (regardless of you wanted status OR load or lack thereof)...because an NPC mission states you are a target from the bulletin board...and you are not notified in any way...how do you discern 'griefer' or player playing legally?

The cry of all Open players should be 'Sorry buddy, got to kill x traders for the Galaxy Quantum State group a few systems over!'. What most people seem to consider griefing is currently warranted game play through the mission system.

 

[Jockey79]

.....we are adults here having a discussion not teens trying to insult each other....

I wouldn't bet on it.

It was clear in mega one, some folks were just here to throw insults (which are still there for all to read!).
There are still insults in mega 2, though in all honesty the overall quality went down.
And don't forget, I was insulted in this thread just for trying to be nice to someone.

As for the behavior of some, they may be over 18 but they are not adults by a long shot.
Also, the game is slated for 7+ so there may well be children on these boards.
And even I know people in real life older than I, who act like my 3 year old.

So I think the re-phrase *some of us are adults trying to hold a discussion*.... though I bet you someone would be "offended" by that

 

[Roybe]

I wouldn't bet on it.

It was clear in mega one, some folks were just here to throw insults (which are still there for all to read!).
There are still insults in mega 2, though in all honesty the overall quality went down.
And don't forget, I was insulted in this thread just for trying to be nice to someone.

As for the behavior of some, they may be over 18 but they are not adults by a long shot.
Also, the game is slated for 7+ so there may well be children on these boards.
And even I know people in real life older than I, who act like my 3 year old.

So I think the re-phrase *some of us are adults trying to hold a discussion*.... though I bet you someone would be "offended" by that

You take all that back...or I will hold my breath until I die!

 

[ComradeFresco]

Honestly, as an immature-man child some of the biggest bouts of immaturity I see on these forums are middle-aged dudes trying to write in the most verbose way possible without realizing they're using words incorrectly and sound like a bad monty python skit.

Oh, oh, oh don't forget feigning to be smarter/better/more mature then other people who play other games. Particularly the ham-fisted references to SC that always crop up out of the blue when nobody mentioned it before.

I wouldn't have it any other way, either. This place is the funniest games forum I've been on since SWG days (That was glorious).

 

[Faded Glory]

Understood...just the main reason some of my stances are so rigid...

And I am in agreement with a lot of your stances...

If someone shoots and kills you (without your permission)...in Open...because you are a high ranked trader (regardless of you wanted status OR load or lack thereof)...because an NPC mission states you are a target from the bulletin board...and you are not notified in any way...how do you discern 'griefer' or player playing legally?

The cry of all Open players should be 'Sorry buddy, got to kill x traders for the Galaxy Quantum State group a few systems over!'. What most people seem to consider griefing is currently warranted game play through the mission system.

This was interesting. Is it the first time it has occurred that you have been 'designated' a mission target, and were there any faction allegiances that might have prompted it?

Whatever, things like this happening almost rule out any serious overhaul of the crime / punishment system, as players would be killing clean players as part of the game's 'role play' for want of a better word, and FD could not then hammer them with a harsh punishment for crimes that they (FD) instigated. At least, I'd be very surprised if they did...

 

[Mouse]

I wouldn't bet on it.

It was clear in mega one, some folks were just here to throw insults (which are still there for all to read!).
There are still insults in mega 2, though in all honesty the overall quality went down.
And don't forget, I was insulted in this thread just for trying to be nice to someone.

As for the behavior of some, they may be over 18 but they are not adults by a long shot.
Also, the game is slated for 7+ so there may well be children on these boards.
And even I know people in real life older than I, who act like my 3 year old.

So I think the re-phrase *some of us are adults trying to hold a discussion*.... though I bet you someone would be "offended" by that

I've already been accused of flaming and baiting before when I was doing neither so trying to word things to get points across without having more accusations thrown when there was nothing there to accuse.

 

[Mouse]

Honestly, as an immature-man child some of the biggest bouts of immaturity I see on these forums are middle-aged dudes trying to write in the most verbose way possible without realizing they're using words incorrectly and sound like a bad monty python skit.

Oh, oh, oh don't forget feigning to be smarter/better/more mature then other people who play other games. Particularly the ham-fisted references to SC that always crop up out of the blue when nobody mentioned it before.

I wouldn't have it any other way, either. This place is the funniest games forum I've been on since SWG days (That was glorious).

Were you on there when news of NGE was "slipped" was an interesting time indeed ^,^.

 

[Jockey79]

You take all that back...or I will hold my breath until I die!

LOL !

Trying to get my 'conda home after a refit.... stop distracting me

 

[Roybe]

And I am in agreement with a lot of your stances...



This was interesting. Is it the first time it has occurred that you have been 'designated' a mission target, and were there any faction allegiances that might have prompted it?

Whatever, things like this happening almost rule out any serious overhaul of the crime / punishment system, as players would be killing clean players as part of the game's 'role play' for want of a better word, and FD could not then hammer them with a harsh punishment for crimes that they (FD) instigated. At least, I'd be very surprised if they did...

Yeah...we run assassination missions..a lot. They run the gambit from police, pirates, traders, explorers, etc. We never thought to scan ourselves!

I was doing an assassination mission...thus the wanted status...one my friends heard me fussing about the bad USS drops so came by to increase the checks we could do.

He was scanning around in SC...just looking for mission targets...and saw a mission target..and started laughing when he saw it was me! The only mission he had was to kill traders....so it seems that the game now looks at your Elite status to determine if players are usable for Missions. If my friend had killed me, I would have thought it for the 20k worth of fines I had...not for the 150k mission he was working.

As this has sunk in over the past couple of days...I realized that there is no way for players who are killed in Open to know why they were killed any more...it could be someone playing a jerk...or someone filling a mission ticket...so, basically, the devs have done away with one of the biggest complaints about 'griefing' in Open (killing clean players with no cargo...bounties, etc.) since killing players is now equivalent to NPC's for missions.


As far as faction allegiance...the friend I was playing with is aligned with Mahon...we were in a contested system...which might have only shown the 'enemy' tag.

I certainly could be wrong on any part of this...and hope that a few people will follow this up and verify it. I think its a cool twist by the devs...and certainly would go a long way to show their mindset on the game...

It's pretty easy...just find an assassination mission for traders, civilians, explorers, etc. and scan some people you know in Open or Private group...it should show them as a 'Mission target'.

 

[Roybe]

Honestly, as an immature-man child some of the biggest bouts of immaturity I see on these forums are middle-aged dudes trying to write in the most verbose way possible without realizing they're using words incorrectly and sound like a bad monty python skit.

Oh, oh, oh don't forget feigning to be smarter/better/more mature then other people who play other games. Particularly the ham-fisted references to SC that always crop up out of the blue when nobody mentioned it before.

I wouldn't have it any other way, either. This place is the funniest games forum I've been on since SWG days (That was glorious).

Hey..go play Star Citizen since those people are so much more superfluous to your argumentativeness and lamentations.

Oh...I am legitimately an old man...middle age is so over rated. Crocheting old men are where it's at!

 

[Mouse]

Yeah...we run assassination missions..a lot. They run the gambit from police, pirates, traders, explorers, etc. We never thought to scan ourselves!

I was doing an assassination mission...thus the wanted status...one my friends heard me fussing about the bad USS drops so came by to increase the checks we could do.

He was scanning around in SC...just looking for mission targets...and saw a mission target..and started laughing when he saw it was me! The only mission he had was to kill traders....so it seems that the game now looks at your Elite status to determine if players are usable for Missions. If my friend had killed me, I would have thought it for the 20k worth of fines I had...not for the 150k mission he was working.

As this has sunk in over the past couple of days...I realized that there is no way for players who are killed in Open to know why they were killed any more...it could be someone playing a jerk...or someone filling a mission ticket...so, basically, the devs have done away with one of the biggest complaints about 'griefing' in Open (killing clean players with no cargo...bounties, etc.) since now killing players is now equivalent to NPC's for missions.


As far as faction allegiance...the friend I was playing with is aligned with Mahon...we were in a contested system...which should have only showed the 'enemy' tag.

I certainly could be wrong on any part of this...and hope that a few people will follow this up and verify it. I think its a cool twist by the devs...and certainly would go a long way to show their mindset on the game...

It's pretty easy...just find an assassination mission for traders, civilians, explorers, etc. and scan some people you know in Open or Private group...it should show them as a 'Mission target'.

Look I take kill civilian targets.. so killing new players is legitimate... that is the argument I am hearing right now..