Guide / Tutorial DCello's Science Guide to the Galaxy

I always wondered... If I turned on the ship lights while travelling exactly 1c, how will that light look from my perspective inside the ship, and from an observer watching me fly by?

Also I read somewhere that the Galaxy and all its contents are moving at a pretty fast speed - does that mean instead of everything being pretty stationary like it is in the game, would we actually have to match trajectory when we do even a simple task such as docking (like trying to throw something into the window of a passing train)?

I don't think they modelled the galaxy moving, nor the stars, as gameplay wise it would probably have no effect on us and would be a huge undertaking. The planets do orbit their stars though, and the stations the planets. When you come out of SC into a station, you can read "destination locked" when disengaging the drive, so I guess the drive matches your trajectory and speed to the station.

The only time where you would have to chase something is during SC, and it seems to be real, as there was a log note in one of the last updates where they had to adjust the orbit of a station, as players were having trouble chasing it down. Recently I also saw a post of a moon orbiting it's parent body so close and so fast, that it was getting difficult for players to enter it's orbit.
 
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Be aware tho with wikipedia that you oughta read the sources - wikipedia in itself is a bunch of errors - often right, but equally often misguided/wrong.

Thanks!





I'm glad the Guide made you curious enough to research the subject! :cool:

But as Ani said, careful with wikipedia. 99% of science discussions I got involved here were useless and with self-entitled people who thought they knew better than me because of their combination of high school physics and wikipedia :p I know I have a long way to go before I'm even half humble, but what really bothers me is that attitude widespreads misinformation :) Wikipedia is great for basic concepts, but it doesn't cover any of the nuances, and that's where people get stuff wrong - the quantum physics field is to the human mind remarkably counter-intuitive.

That being said, good lucl with your curiosity, and don't be afraid to admit you don't know or ask someone if you're having trouble understanding something :)

Oh, and remember the opening quote in the Guide, courtesy of Douglas Adams: "the universe is a lot more complicated than you might think, even if you start from a position of thinking it's pretty damn complicated in the first place.” :)

:) that's why I chose Wikipedia, the in depth stuff will be WAY over my head! :) Had a little look and yeah, understood it like a flea understands 1+1=2!! ;)
 
Hi! That was a very interesting read, thank you very much.

I don't know if you are still active on this topic, but to be honest I missed a part about the thrusters and the power plant. I have the feeling both are exceptionally strong, but I'm clueless :D Would be nice if you (or somebody else is also welcome) could leave your theories or facts about them. =)

Best regards
 
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Brilliant read. Thank you for taking the time to put it together.

It refreshed me on some things I thought I knew about, and plenty of other things that I didn't :)

Has also inspired me to re-read Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy!
 
Einstein's theory of relativity is just that a theory. That being said, as you mentioned, there are particles with mass in the universe that move faster than the speed of light, thereby nullifying Einstein's theory. We do not as yet know if Baryonic mater can move faster than TSL because we can not propel it that fast "yet". I do think we will figure it out but not until we stop clinging to outdated theories from one man, who has been proven wrong time and again, and start thinking in a different direction. Some are trying to do this, but to few.

Side note: Love Elite, finally a game I can relate to.
 
Einstein's theory of relativity is just that a theory.
Shows that you don't know what a "theory" is in science. Hint: it's not the same as a "hypothesis" or an "assumption" or a "wild guess".

That being said, as you mentioned, there are particles with mass in the universe that move faster than the speed of light, thereby nullifying Einstein's theory.
No, there aren't. There is the hypothetical tachyon, but that has never been experimentally found or its existence in any other way proven. This is in fact nothing but an assumption.
 
I always wondered... If I turned on the ship lights while travelling exactly 1c, how will that light look from my perspective inside the ship, and from an observer watching me fly by?

Also I read somewhere that the Galaxy and all its contents are moving at a pretty fast speed - does that mean instead of everything being pretty stationary like it is in the game, would we actually have to match trajectory when we do even a simple task such as docking (like trying to throw something into the window of a passing train)?

Your first question, well it depends on your distance from observer, if you are 30 ls from observer, they would see you passing by 30 seconds later, it's like looking at stars 10 ly away, what you actually see in the real world are the stars as they were 10 years ago, the further away you look, the further you look into the past.
As for your second question, stations and moons, planets etc.. already orbit the star and you already are intercepting trajectories, notice stations moving in front of you if you slowdown near them when in hypercruise mode, just you don't notice that that much at faster speeds cause you are basically going too fast for orbit speeds to be meaningful to you but it would be if you were flying a rocket today and you would have to synchronise your orbit with target before approaching.
 
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Fantastic read! Physics is so interesting!

I have a question, though. You mentioned why relative velocity time dilation doesn't happen, due to the FSD *not* actually moving you at FTL speeds but rather manipulating space. However, is there any explanation for how gravitational time dilation is avoided? I say this because in-game I have managed to get to within 25 km of a black hole, and I've seen screenshots of people getting much closer than that, well within the event horizon, with no consequences. I know it's probably just a game decision, since it isn't really feasible to have the clock run faster for some players than others, but is there any physically possible mechanism to somehow explain this in-game?
 
This contradicts your thread post.

Why is that?

This is a very good thread indeed with lots of excellent science, though it's not quite true to some of the lore (as the lore does play fast and loose with physics in some places!). I'm not quite sure why the original author has stated definitively that the in-system FSD drive is *not* an Alcubierre drive, as it behaves precisely as if it is. Certainly hyperspace is not Alcubierre, so I'd be interested to hear the explanation myself. :)

Cheers,

Drew.
 
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This is a very good thread indeed with lots of excellent science, though it's not quite true to some of the lore (as the lore does play fast and loose with physics in some places!). I'm not quite sure why the original author has stated definitively that the in-system FSD drive is *not* an Alcubierre drive, as it behaves precisely as if it is. Certainly hyperspace is not Alcubierre, so I'd be interested to hear the explanation myself. :)

Cheers,

Drew.

perhaps he was referring to the fact that the FSD doesn't behave like a Alcubierre drive because of its dual nature. After all he straight up compares the supercruise function to Star Trek.
 
This was an excellent read and I definitely look forward to more edits and additions to the guide!

I am no physicist, astronomer, or anything of the sort. I find it peculiar that for whatever reason I understand all the sciency stuff you used on this guide... Hm...

I do spend significant amounts of time reading about anything space related, though. I'm one of those guys that start reading an article, sees a "shiny" term or word, and deviates from the article to read about what the shiny word could mean.

Very concise, easy to read and understand guide. Thank you!
 
Damn it, I was going to stay out of this thread...

The thread's author appears not to have visited the site since last August, so anyone asking questions might be waiting a while for a direct reply. I hope DCello does return at some point and make further contributions, as this really is an excellent guide - amazingly easy to understand, even if I might disagree with one or two points.

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[...] I'm not quite sure why the original author has stated definitively that the in-system FSD drive is *not* an Alcubierre drive, as it behaves precisely as if it is.
Oh, my word. Hello, Mr Wagar. It's a pleasure to see you here. :)

I'm something of a fan of yours, Mr Wagar, I bought Reclamation in three different formats, but - as much as it pains me to disagree with you - I have to agree with DCello on this.

I'm no physicist, but as I understand it, there are some notable characteristics of the Alcubierre drive concept which aren't expressed in the game: the nature and amount of negative energy needed (rather more than a relatively-simple hydrogen fusion reactor can easily account for); the initial acceleration (which doesn't provide an instant jump to relative-FTL); the wake of expanding space behind our ships as we travel (which would presumably affect anything directly behind us, especially when jumping from just a few metres away from other ships, stations and starports); and the hefty blast of radiation released when we drop to sublight.

Just trying to fit the name Frame-Shift Drive into the Alcubierre concept feels somewhat forced, in my opinion.

These issues are easy enough to handwave away - it's a hypothetical technology and this is SF after all - but by the time we dispense with them, I don't think what we have afterwards is really still an Alcubierre drive, any more than the International Space Station is an igloo.

Beyond that, Miguel Alcubierre designed his hypothetical drive as a real-world articulation of Star Trek's warp drive. Essentially, it's fan fiction, as written by a physicist. For Star Trek. Not Elite: Dangerous. Even the drive's Wikipedia page is happy to use terms like 'warp bubble'. I don't know about you, Mr Wagar, but it feels to me like we're filing off the serial numbers and passing it off as something other than what it is, which is a warp drive. It's purely a personal view, but I'm not comfortable with the community doing that. I'd prefer us to be more forthright.

My views are my honest opinions and I hope I haven't caused too much offence.
I wish you all the best, Mr Wagar. :)

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Regarding DCello's comparison of the FSD with Star Trek's warp drive: the depiction given doesn't agree with anything I can recall, either from any canonical source, or from Sternbach & Okuda's pro-canonical ST:TNG Technical Manual, which - even after 25 years - is still the stone-cold Gold Standard for this kind of SF technology discussion.

As I understand it (and notwithstanding some of Trek's more questionable scripts), subspace is supposed to be a kind of subdivision of Space As We Know It, rather than some proper parallel reality, à la hyperspace. I suppose that's why it's called subspace.

Keeping it fairly simple, the warp drive works by creating an energy bubble which surrounds and effectively segregates the ship from the part of space that limits us to sublight speeds. Creating lots of incredibly short-lived bubbles, each one inside the last - and having them selectively come into contact with each other - 'squeezes' the ship in a chosen direction, unencumbered by the normal laws of physics.

There's a brief tunneling effect as a ship jumps to warp speed, but mainly because it looks cool and bridges the gap between different FX shots. After going to warp, a ship can move as freely as an ED ship in Supercruise. There's no inherent obligation for a ship at warp to move in a particular way, or indeed at all - although the Enterprise wouldn't last very long flying backwards, since the deflector that sweeps aside space-debris only covers a forward arc.

Non-moving warp fields have been shown a few times, for various different reasons - such as reducing the apparent mass of a moon so it can be moved, for example.

Interestingly, the maximum safe speed of the Enterprise-D in The Next Generation was 2000c, almost identical to our 2001c maximum speed in ED.
Whether that's a coincidence, or a nod of acknowledgment, only the devs can tell. :)
 
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That's all very interesting and an in-depth explanation by DCello.

Frontier please tell us what of this scientific guide is cannon?
 
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An excellent read and source, would that the OP return and update us into the Horizons era and beyond.

Perhaps also shedding some light on Engineers?
 
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