Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[R3DB3RD]

I like Solo.*points at himself*

You like Solo * points in a random direction*

You like Group *points in a random direction*

You like Open *points in a random direction*

All of us have an impact on one singular game environment in such a way as nobody misses out. No one mode is more important than another. All players get the same opportunities.

How cool is that. For arguments sake I think we should label Eliteangerous as a Small Multiplayer Online game (SMO).

It really is quite clever and players should embrace it, play the way they want to and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing.

This is not a sandbox where YOU can dictate everybody elses gameplay.
This is a sandbox where mature sensible players have fun and enjoy games without other players ruining their fun with senseless, selfish and immature gameplay.

And about time too...

If you dont get it, go back to being an epeen champion in all the other boring senseless idiotic MMOs that clutter up the Internetz. And stop telling me you had relations with my Mother.

 

[Cody]

I think we should label Eliteangerous as a Small Multiplayer Online game (SMO).

No, it's a FOG - Flexiplayer Online Game!

 

[Mouse]

I like Solo.*points at himself*

You like Solo * points in a random direction*

You like Group *points in a random direction*

You like Open *points in a random direction*

All of us have an impact on one singular game environment in such a way as nobody misses out. No one mode is more important than another. All players get the same opportunities.

How cool is that. For arguments sake I think we should label Eliteangerous as a Small Multiplayer Online game (SMO).

It really is quite clever and players should embrace it, play the way they want to and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing.

This is not a sandbox where YOU can dictate everybody elses gameplay.
This is a sandbox where mature sensible players have fun and enjoy games without other players ruining their fun with senseless, selfish and immature gameplay.

And about time too...

If you dont get it, go back to being an epeen champion in all the other boring senseless idiotic MMOs that clutter up the Internetz. And stop telling me you had relations with my Mother.

I think Fdev should hire you for Public relations.. in the new SMO genre of games ^,^

 

[Phosphora]

I like Solo.*points at himself*

You like Solo * points in a random direction*

You like Group *points in a random direction*

You like Open *points in a random direction*

All of us have an impact on one singular game environment in such a way as nobody misses out. No one mode is more important than another. All players get the same opportunities.

How cool is that. For arguments sake I think we should label Eliteangerous as a Small Multiplayer Online game (SMO).

It really is quite clever and players should embrace it, play the way they want to and stop worrying about what everybody else is doing.

This is not a sandbox where YOU can dictate everybody elses gameplay.
This is a sandbox where mature sensible players have fun and enjoy games without other players ruining their fun with senseless, selfish and immature gameplay.

And about time too...

If you dont get it, go back to being an epeen champion in all the other boring senseless idiotic MMOs that clutter up the Internetz. And stop telling me you had relations with my Mother.

Superb stuff, have some rep.

 

[relayer]

BTW, attacking other players was clearly preventing players from wanting to play together in the first two Diablo games. So much that in Diablo 3 Blizzard made it basically a PvE-only game, where players are unable to do anything harmful to each other. Well, technically there is a half-done, mostly abandoned Arena mode in Diablo 3, but that is it for PvP in that game.

'Zactly my point. The only reason I went there on Battle.net was to meet other gamers, have some fun with them, help some along with trinkets & treasures, to do Diablo with 10 in the game (making him hellishly strong)... so much fun, but it got poisoned by the same mentalities that just want to shoot/kill/shoot/kill & PK.

 

[Arioch]

How cool is that. For arguments sake I think we should label Eliteangerous as a Small Multiplayer Online game (SMO)

No, it's a FOG - Flexiplayer Online Game!

SMOg? FOG? It's quite clearly (or rather, hazily) MISTY - Multi Instanced, Session Transposable, Ysame.

("Ysame" is an old word meaning "together")

 

[Roybe]

Let's take an example of an MMO - Diablo/Diablo II/LoD. Advertised as an MMO? Yes. Ability to create a solo game? Yes. Ability to create a "group" game with internal rules (LVL 12 & up)(Cows)(Doing Meph)(Andy) & etc. Ability to play with anyone/everyone? Yes.

Would you say that Blizzard "tacked on" the Create Game mode? No. Would you say that players creating a private game for the purposes of running Meph or Baal over and over for loot were "unfair" to other players? What about people who would shut down an open game when a PKer showed up and create another one to continue playing (solo mode) without them?

Umm...those are not defined as MMO's they are co-op role play games with a share chat/lobby...the limit of 4 players and no persistent environment shoots that down. I mean if 32 players is not big enough for an MMO...then 4 surely isn't!

- - - Updated - - -

This is not a sandbox where YOU can dictate everybody elses gameplay.
This is a sandbox where mature sensible players have fun and enjoy games without other players ruining their fun with senseless, selfish and immature gameplay.

And about time too...

If you dont get it, go back to being an epeen champion in all the other boring senseless idiotic MMOs that clutter up the Internetz. And stop telling me you had relations with my Mother.

Although I think many might agree with you...being derogatory to how other players play...will generally reciprocate with them being the same. If you want others to accept how you play...might I suggest you accept how others play?

 

[fademist]

Although I think many might agree with you...being derogatory to how other players play...will generally reciprocate with them being the same. If you want others to accept how you play...might I suggest you accept how others play?

the fun part is that all this started cause open people doesnt accept solo/group ppl play choice...

 

[R3DB3RD]

Although I think many might agree with you...being derogatory to how other players play...will generally reciprocate with them being the same. If you want others to accept how you play...might I suggest you accept how others play?

In what way am I being derogatory?

I'm happy for everyone to choose however which way they choose to play.
Pvp, pve, solo, open, trade, pirate, bounty hunt...

Just not interested in immature gamers hiding behind ridiculous claims and arguments that misrepresents what they really want to achieve - the misery of other players. Its as simple as that.

There is nothing derogatory in the terms immature, senseless and selfish. They are descriptive terms for a type of player that quite frankly many gamers are tired of having to deal with.

FD and DBOBE are using an eloquent method that allows players to choose not to engage with those they do not wish to. And still remain active in the overall environment of the game.

Please dont misunderstand me. I am talking about a minority here, I'm not stereotyping any one group of players into a subset of mules on metamphetamine r us.

I will not apologise for using such terms. I would use the same terms when correcting the behaviour of juveniles and children.
This applies here in the very same context.

Only this playground is not monitored, there is no discipline, there are no consequences.

We do, however, have modes for choice and for freedom.

(Cue Mel Gibson and a bad scottish accent.)

 

[Belzmort]

There is nothing derogatory in the terms immature, senseless and selfish. They are descriptive terms for a type of player that quite frankly many gamers are tired of having to deal with.

Those people have been around for as long as you've had the internet or any type connectivity involving other people. I remember well the days of MuD's, Usenet and emergence of something new and shiney called the World Wide Web (wow that thing never caught on... ). We are lucky nowadays as most online games have ways to deal with toxic behaviour, but I do think our tolerance for dealing with idiots has grown paper thin as generally we are fairly well insulated and have options.

Anyway good post nonetheless. Have some rep.

 

[DarkWalker]

Those people have been around for as long as you've had the internet or any type connectivity involving other people. I remember well the days of MuD's, Usenet and emergence of something new and shiney called the World Wide Web (wow that thing never caught on... ). We are lucky nowadays as most online games have ways to deal with toxic behaviour, but I do think our tolerance for dealing with idiots has grown paper thin as generally we are fairly well insulated and have options.

Yep, this is why many people think that something like pre-Trammel UO can never happen again. That environment depended on players that disliked PvP remaining in the game despite it, something that doesn't happen anymore because, with the extra options we have now, those players would just change games.

It's more or less what happened in UO when Trammel was added; players got an option, everyone that didn't like either PvP or the forced grouping for survival left PvP Felucca for the PvE-only Trammel, and the "society" that existed in old UO was unmade. Though it was already doomed anyway by the rise of competing games that didn't force PvP on the players, like EverQuest, a game that in a few short months was already much larger than UO.

 

[Daffan]

I would still like an answer to this " You keep touting "emergent game play" but if you are attacking others that either 1. Can't attack back, 2. Vastly outnumbered, or 3. Vastly outclassed .. where is the emergent game play and how is it not griefing? They are no threat to you.. you pretty much have impunity in your actions. That is not PVP.. there is no vs.. just assaulter and victim pretty much. I really think you are confusing "Roleplaying type game play" with "emergent Game Play"

You claimed the trade bonus was an incentive, I explained why it wasn't and what it really was for. It is not a conflict of interests, it is just a way for people to help others and get a little something for it since there is no real way to trade funds in this game to "pay" others. If they wanted it to be an incentive then they would make it so that traders could "Set" how much of their profit went to the escorts in payment for their services.


I trade.. it is complex and fun game play.. it isn't grinding.. it is also PVE.. I shoot NPC fighters... it is fun and complex game play.. it is not grinding. Plus what actually is grinding some people enjoy.. why do you keep thinking people are not having fun or complex game play unless they play like you do?

Um.. ok.. please tell me a popular game with NPC's (aka AI) that people do not play against the AI?

1) Why does it always have to be one vs many? Why cant it be many vs many? Or many vs one?

2) Why would a trader ever give funds to other players ? Why? Why would i pay someone to escort me or play with me when i can click solo? just why? It's like asking someone to accompany me while i go down to the supermarket to get some milk - there is no threat so why would i want to pay someone to come with me

3) Trade, yes very complex. Use online DB to find point A and point B. Now trade between them endlessly, It's how i made my first cash, watching netflix while half-afk flying 8 million an hour. Deep. Grinding is doing repetitive tasks - boring or easy.

4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.


you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. hahahahaahah

It's more or less what happened in UO when Trammel was added; players got an option, everyone that didn't like either PvP or the forced grouping for survival left PvP Felucca for the PvE-only Trammel, and the "society" that existed in old UO was unmade. Though it was already doomed anyway by the rise of competing games that didn't force PvP on the players, like EverQuest, a game that in a few short months was already much larger than UO.

It probably didn't help that Everquest was 3D and had way more advertising than UO ever did. Felucca was flawed because people could eventually have houses that made the penalties associated with being a murderer, null.

 

[Jockey79]

2) Why would a trader ever give funds to other players ? Why? Why would i pay someone to escort me or play with me when i can click solo? just why? It's like asking someone to accompany me while i go down to the supermarket to get some milk - there is no threat so why would i want to pay someone to come with me

Your analogy is flawed.
You can be hit by a drunk driver, you can be run over by someone on their phone, you can be "mugged" by a thief.
Heck, it has been known for people to be struck by lightning while out of the house.

As for the game, some traders like to be sociable. Having wing mates is not always about having guards, sometimes about about the company and the laughs. Being able to share those T9 profits with those that tag along is something some of us like to do, to help folks out.

Also, people keep on "no threat" - maybe for those who sit at the pc 16 hours a day playing games - but those who are getting old and those with families don't build up super fast reflexes or can "A" rate every ship out. My T9 only had guns for the last few days I used it, and even then it could not defend itself from an Elite Anaconda. Solo is not a "no threat" area for the *average* player.

3) Trade, yes very complex. Use online DB to find point A and point B. Now trade between them endlessly, It's how i made my first cash, watching netflix while half-afk flying 8 million an hour. Deep. Grinding is doing repetitive tasks - boring or easy.

There is more to trading than following an online database. If you chose to be a robot, that's up to you - play your way.
But it's been known for sometime that the best trade routes are not to be found on Slopeys / ETN or Thrudds.
And finding those routes takes time, effort and hard work, which is why real traders won't share those 4,000+ per ton / per jump trade routes with anyone.

4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.

For a start, "majority"? So I can assume you have access to the server stats for all those games and are willing to share the logs to back up that claim?
(or did we just pluck that out of thin air? <-- no need to answer, I already know the answer)

Also, DOTA2 and Hearthstone were designed around PvP, the AI is only a training mode to get people started.
(I cannot speak for the other games as I've not played them).

Elite: Dangerous was not designed as a PvP game, it is a game that allows PvP. There is a difference.
Also, SJA has stated she can crank the AI up as much as she likes - but they are balanced around that pesky *average* player, who has other things to do than sit playing games all day. Like work, family, friends, fresh air.

you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. hahahahaahah

You can play your way, in open, right now, it's PvE players that cannot play their way unless a PvE mode is added or PvP getting pushed to CQC only.
Also it has been said, FD want 1 BGS - no more, no less.

And as you forget, if the "reason" you want an open only server is so you can "see everyone to interact with them" - you'd still have the 32 player max limit, so you'd still not get what you want even then. This game was built around instancing and a match maker service. It really is not that hard to understand this.

 

[fademist]

It really is not that hard to understand this.

Us u can see some ppl fail to understand it ...prolly they need to finish nuclear physics university class 1st ;p

 

[R3DB3RD]

1) Why does it always have to be one vs many? Why cant it be many vs many? Or many vs one?

2) Why would a trader ever give funds to other players ? Why? Why would i pay someone to escort me or play with me when i can click solo? just why? It's like asking someone to accompany me while i go down to the supermarket to get some milk - there is no threat so why would i want to pay someone to come with me

3) Trade, yes very complex. Use online DB to find point A and point B. Now trade between them endlessly, It's how i made my first cash, watching netflix while half-afk flying 8 million an hour. Deep. Grinding is doing repetitive tasks - boring or easy.

4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.


you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. hahahahaahah



It probably didn't help that Everquest was 3D and had way more advertising than UO ever did. Felucca was flawed because people could eventually have houses that made the penalties associated with being a murderer, null.

You're opinions on the game.
Jolly good.
Off you go now and play the game youre way and stop being bored by grinding.
Still do not see an actual argument for seperating the modes or having one mode more important than another.
Leave everyone else to 'grind' their way. Stop sticky beaking and all your worries go away.

It is not our fault or the fault of the modes that you only have a few people to play with.

P2P mechanics.
Players choosing how they play.
Players choosing who they play with.
The design and vision of the game.
Difficulty and skill levels.
Players goals and ambitions within the game.
Console gamers.
What the game actually is instead of what some players want the game to be like.

 

[DaveB]

... Why would a trader ever give funds to other players ? Why? Why would i pay someone to escort me or play with me when i can click solo? just why? It's like asking someone to accompany me while i go down to the supermarket to get some milk - there is no threat so why would i want to pay someone to come with me...

Well, I can't speak for you but the reasons I'd pay for somebody else to wing up on a trade run would look something like this...

• I'm feeling social for this play session, so I'll be in either open or one of the groups I'm a member of.
• I'm in a sufficiently un-grouchy mood to be open to the possibility of PvP so that means I'm not just restricted to playing in Mobius if I want the social interaction.
• There's this peach of a trade run that makes truly insane amounts of profit but it's through a wide band of shark-infested custard with active CGs so there's gonna be pirates galore and they are all gonna want a piece of my cargo.
• I'm under no delusions about my half-century-old combat ability standing up to younger reflexes and I may be flying a python but it's not combat maxed, it's rigged as an armed trader. A decent pilot in a combat maxed ship of comparable power would eat my lunch.

Now, if under those circumstances I can give my millions worth of cargo a greater chance of reaching its destination and generating profit, if I can reduce the risk of having a huge repair bill or an insurance payment that it also going to be in the range of millions by winging up with some hired guns, let me turn your question around. As a trader, why WOULDN'T I?

 

[Faded Glory]

1) Why does it always have to be one vs many? Why cant it be many vs many? Or many vs one?

What's the difference between one vs. many and many vs. one?

2) Why would a trader ever give funds to other players ? Why? Why would i pay someone to escort me or play with me when i can click solo? just why? It's like asking someone to accompany me while i go down to the supermarket to get some milk - there is no threat so why would i want to pay someone to come with me

I thought it was because it was more fun for you...

3) Trade, yes very complex. Use online DB to find point A and point B. Now trade between them endlessly, It's how i made my first cash, watching netflix while half-afk flying 8 million an hour. Deep. Grinding is doing repetitive tasks - boring or easy.

So you chose to do it the boring way, and then come here complaining about everyone else (presumably) doing that, even though you don't know that they do?

4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.

Yep, some of the NPCs are easy, and some of them are not. Some commanders are good pilots, some are less good. You can find challenges from NPCs in SSS if that's what you want, you don't have to farm at RES. Or you can presumably go and find some other CMDRs in Open and have a blast with some consensual PvP.

you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. hahahahaahah

And how much interest was there for your suggestion?

I don't really understand why you don't just play the game the way you like, nobody is stopping you are they?

 

[relayer]

AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.

This part of your post caught my eye.

How tiring does it get shooting unarmed and unshielded traders because they are easy?

How is an aimbot with insane stats different from min/maxed combat ships shooting noobs & traders? That's also just unfair.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.

l.

It is interesting to me that every single game you listed I have zero interest in playing. Imo you need to ccept. not everyone likes the games you do.

Dota2 I found the toxicity in the player base of that game terrible. Even players I know who love it admit a large number of the players there are not nice people when it comes to playing with more social players calling them all sorts of names when they do things "wrong"

 

[hunvagy]

1)
4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.


you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. hahahahaahah

You do realize that with the exception of Starcraft 2 every game you listed here was never meant to be played in ANY other way then PvP, right?

CS and those MOBAs you listed could only be compared to CQC, and not Elite as a whole. Quick action, narrow scope, no overall achievments in the end. And no, unlocks don't account for squat. And Hearthstone.. really, a CCG as comparison with Elite? A game where you literally only build decks to play against other people?

As to your "why would I ever, why not solo" rants, that have been going on for about a year now, and you always refuse the answer you're given: Because there are people who like to play with other people, in a cooperation way, not in a confrontational way. Same reason why people park T9s at stations with CGs, and give away gold. Not to lure people in and have them ambushed, but to help others and contribute.

And Elite modes offer a way for everyone to play this fine game as they see fit. Those that like the thrill and confrontation like you do, can go to open. Those who just want to work together, form a group. And those who can't stand the idea of another human being altering their game in a direct way, go solo. That's all there is to it.

And the people who argue this and can't see the greater value of modes, are the real narrowminded ones.