Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Lestenio]

3) Trade, yes very complex. Use online DB to find point A and point B. Now trade between them endlessly, It's how i made my first cash, watching netflix while half-afk flying 8 million an hour. Deep. Grinding is doing repetitive tasks - boring or easy.

Ah.. I see. You used an online tool to make money and grinded safely in solo. Now you have taken your solo grinded big ship into open to grief other players. Each to their own. But even true open players despise that type of game play and it's pretty much the reason why this thread exists to begin with.

you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. .

You don't need a seperate Galaxy for that. You can do that now

 

[Robert Maynard]

What's the difference between one vs. many and many vs. one?

Oooh! Oooh! I know this one!!

The first is a single player being "interacted with" by a Wing, the second is being in a Wing "interacting with" a player....

 

[Mouse]

1) Why does it always have to be one vs many? Why cant it be many vs many? Or many vs one?

You would have to ask those who engage traders and others for PVP while making sure there is no real way for them to loose.

2) Why would a trader ever give funds to other players ? Why? Why would i pay someone to escort me or play with me when i can click solo? just why? It's like asking someone to accompany me while i go down to the supermarket to get some milk - there is no threat so why would i want to pay someone to come with me

Because we want to.. if someone is going to fly with me.. I am going to compensate them for their time and enjoyable company. Plus for those of us who find trading fun, other friends like to fly alongside and "escort". I've had a lot of fun flying with friends. Just because I CAN go into solo to trade doesn't mean I will. Your analogy though fits with outfitting.. you need something you go get it. Trading is nothing like that.. Trading is driving a 18 wheeler, a lorry, a cargo plane, a cargo ship, or if we go olden days.. a galleon. You have commodities at one place that are needed at another and you transport them there. Even today transports sometimes have escorts, either because it is important, dangerous, valuable, or oversized.

3) Trade, yes very complex. Use online DB to find point A and point B. Now trade between them endlessly, It's how i made my first cash, watching netflix while half-afk flying 8 million an hour. Deep. Grinding is doing repetitive tasks - boring or easy.

I think it is interesting how you lambaste grinding.. yet you did it to make a bunch of money quickly.. it must not have been too bad if you were willing to do it.

Trading can be easy or complex. I am glad you made 8 million an hour.. I probably will never see even close to that. While I am trading to make money, I am not purposely making it a grind as you did to as they say... "make bank". While I have looked at some Databases for ideas on commodities, I find that they are not always accurate and while I use em for an idea for me the trip is the fun. Planning my route, looking at system maps and going to stations to look at the prices of stuff, what they sell, what they buy and how much. I make my own spreadsheets or I just write everything down on note pads. How many stops do I want to make, Do I want to do one main commodity going out and one back or have multiple different ones along the route coming back? If it is a really long route will I need to fuel and where do I want to do it. There are many aspects of trading that you completely ignored mainly because for you it was a means to a goal.. you ignored the emergent game play to get as much money as you could as quickly as you could... then you criticize the game play after you got what you wanted from it.

4) cs;Go, dota2, LOl, sc2, hearthstone has the majority playing against people rather than AI when the choice is available. AI for most gets tiring fast because they are easy - Unless you make them aimbots and have insane stats, then it's just unfair and boring.

Some of those games I know some I don't.. Some were made to play against other humans primarily (unlike E) others like SC2.. unless it is wholly different than the original SC, I would love the data where you got your information from that out of all the copies of the games sold.. the majority play against other humans.

you're right that people should be able to play there way - that's why i just asked initially what people thought about a 2nd open only galaxy to gauge interest, you know - so we can play the way we like. hahahahaahah

Why would you need a Open ONLY mode? You can play the way you want to right now.. in Open.. the only reason for Open ONLY is to force people to play a certain way.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Why would you need a Open ONLY mode? You can play the way you want to right now.. in Open.. the only reason for Open ONLY is to force people to play a certain way.

To be honest from a purely theoretical point of view I would have zero problems with an open only mode with its own PU, where you delete your character and start from scratch and are locked in.

I do think if it happened ultimately it would cost FD a lot of money to set up, and the end result would be a very empty server, but that being said, in principle it would not affect me one way or the other. FD have already said it aint gonna happen however (possibly due to the costs & work involved).

unlike a PvE mode which shares the same galaxy as everyone else which would not cost much to set up.

Personally I think the "PvP" only players MAY have better luck asking for a locked in "open" mode which shares the same PU as everyone else.... even that would probably be fairly empty imo, but that probably has more chance, and even tho wont tick all their boxes, at least may be some form of compromise.

 

[Mouse]

To be honest from a purely theoretical point of view I would have zero problems with an open only mode with its own PU, where you delete your character and start from scratch and are locked in.

I do think if it happened ultimately it would cost FD a lot of money to set up, and the end result would be a very empty server, but that being said, in principle it would not affect me one way or the other. FD have already said it aint gonna happen however (possibly due to the costs & work involved).

unlike a PvE mode which shares the same galaxy as everyone else which would not cost much to set up.

Personally I think the "PvP" only players MAY have better luck asking for a locked in "open" mode which shares the same PU as everyone else.... even that would probably be fairly empty imo, but that probably has more chance, and even tho wont tick all their boxes, at least may be some form of compromise.

I agree with most of what you said Mike, except I don't think a "locked" open mode works, mainly because people do swap around..and have many valid reasons why they play open and other modes as well.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Why would you need a Open ONLY mode? …

Some players have the illusion that on an Open ONLY mode they could blockade systems, could fight against PP undermining and fortification by killing CMDRs. They have the feeling that if they aren't able to directly attack other players those other players get somehow an unfair advantage.

The problem is, they ignore instancing and time zones in their ideal fantasy PvP dream.

It simply doesn't work.
It doesn't work with the networking model ED is using.
It doesn't work in a client-server model because of time zones and players playing at different times.

The next thing demanded would be servers with time zone restriction.

 

[Jockey79]

Some players have the illusion that on an Open ONLY mode they could blockade systems, could fight against PP undermining and fortification by killing CMDRs. They have the feeling that if they aren't able to directly attack other players those other players get somehow an unfair advantage.

The problem is, they ignore instancing and time zones in their ideal fantasy PvP dream.

It simply doesn't work.
It doesn't work with the networking model ED is using.
It doesn't work in a client-server model because of time zones and players playing at different times.

The next thing demanded would be servers with time zone restriction.

As I'm in Hudson space, I put forward these new server restrictions;

1) Everyone must move to Hudson space, so I stand a better chance of seeing them
2) Everyone can only play from 21:00hrs (9pm) British summer time Monday to Friday, 14:00 - 19:00hrs Saturday, as that's when I play
3) Everyone must join Mobius, as I play in that group the most and I want to see people.
4) Everyone must be interrupted by children every 20 minutes, because I am and it's "unfair" if others get to play without interruptions.
5) Everyone must have a handicap/ play with the wrong hand - I'm left handed, but the x52 is for right handed people.
6) As my wife does not play, and goes on Left For Dead 2 - all women are banned from Elite: Dangerous, they must go and kill zombies
7) Only real men with real beards can play (not you hipster / lumbersexual types). The only people without beards are women - see number 6
8) If you are not married - go out and get married, why should I be the only one to suffer.
8a) If it is a same sex marriage, number 6 still applies to both women. If it's men you both must have your own accounts, 5 and 7 still apply
9) Everyone must listen to Sidewinder Radio or Hutton Orbital Radio - no other music is allowed
10) Everyone must have something by Stephen Fry on a second screen while playing (I prefer QI, but his tour of America was good)

I think that about covers all the rules that should be in place

[Disclaimer: The above is a joke, no offence is intended.]

 

[Julissa Silver]

6) As my wife does not play, and goes on Left For Dead 2 - all women are banned from Elite: Dangerous, they must go and kill zombies

We are displeased. Assume the position.

 

[Khelder]

Some players have the illusion that on an Open ONLY mode they could blockade systems, could fight against PP undermining and fortification by killing CMDRs. They have the feeling that if they aren't able to directly attack other players those other players get somehow an unfair advantage.

The problem is, they ignore instancing and time zones in their ideal fantasy PvP dream.

It simply doesn't work.
It doesn't work with the networking model ED is using.
It doesn't work in a client-server model because of time zones and players playing at different times.

The next thing demanded would be servers with time zone restriction.

You seem to be ignoring that something doesn't need to be 100% effective to be effective.

A bullet-proof vest doesn't cover your entire body. Yet, police and armed forces still have this crazy habit of wearing them. Why? Because if it can stop one bullet hitting a vital organ, it has done its job.

It could be argued that stopping (delaying/whatever) one opposing PP player makes a difference. Albeit very small. And timezones/play times are irrelevant because those are not limited to players supporting one faction.

Even if the only different is that a PP player has to be a little bit more careful in carrying out an otherwise non-PvP mission because of the threat of opposing PP players - an effect has been made.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
And timezones/play times are irrelevant because those are not limited to players supporting one faction.
…

And playing Solo or Group Mode is not limited to players supporting one faction.

The Open Only Mode supporters want something they can't get. They want it for the feeling of "fairness" in a game, but exactly that "fairness" is something they can't get even in an Open Only galaxy.

The Open Mode is currently the "not 100% effective" solution.

 

[Khelder]

And playing Solo or Group Mode is not limited to players supporting one faction.

Isn't this effectively demanding (suggesting) that Open players play in a way they choose not to? Isn't this a big thing that the anti-open-only crowd are against?

The Open Only Mode supporters want something they can't get. They want it for the feeling of "fairness" in a game, but exactly that "fairness" is something they can't get even in an Open Only galaxy.

If anyone want a 100% effective opposition tactic, then, yes, they aren't going to get it. I also tend to think that it would be a bad thing if it were possible. Make things difficult - yes. Change the way people play - yes. Completely block a legitimate action? - I think this would be more to the detriment of gameplay than a positive.

Technically, if Open had its own BGS, I think it would be fairer. That is because everyone would be on the same playing field as far as things in-game are concerned. There are always going to be differences with timezones, play times, internet stability, instancing, interrupting kids, wives killing zombies, etc. Those are things that are beyond the control of the game. But by switching to a different play mode - the game is offering a difference.

The Open Mode is currently the "not 100% effective" solution.

As I have said before, I am in the camp of keeping things as they are. I believe that there are slight issues with fairness related to mode switching. I actually thought that these were fairly plain and just logical. But I have come to accept that not everyone sees them so let's just put that down as personal opinion. But, ultimately, I believe the benefits of the modes outweigh the downsides.

 

[Jockey79]

The Open Mode is currently the "not 100% effective" solution.

Currently, Open = 32 maximum theoretically connected players
Open Only Server = 32 maximum theoretically connected players

Yes, I can now see the improvement - wow, what a fantastic change, it will revolutionise the gaming industry.
How did we not see that Zadian, we were blind not to see the massive benefit of adding nothing to the game!

 

[Taoth Vaclarush]

As I'm in Hudson space, I put forward these new server restrictions;

1) Everyone must move to Hudson space, so I stand a better chance of seeing them
2) Everyone can only play from 21:00hrs (9pm) British summer time Monday to Friday, 14:00 - 19:00hrs Saturday, as that's when I play
3) Everyone must join Mobius, as I play in that group the most and I want to see people.
4) Everyone must be interrupted by children every 20 minutes, because I am and it's "unfair" if others get to play without interruptions.
5) Everyone must have a handicap/ play with the wrong hand - I'm left handed, but the x52 is for right handed people.
6) As my wife does not play, and goes on Left For Dead 2 - all women are banned from Elite: Dangerous, they must go and kill zombies
7) Only real men with real beards can play (not you hipster / lumbersexual types). The only people without beards are women - see number 6
8) If you are not married - go out and get married, why should I be the only one to suffer.
8a) If it is a same sex marriage, number 6 still applies to both women. If it's men you both must have your own accounts, 5 and 7 still apply
9) Everyone must listen to Sidewinder Radio or Hutton Orbital Radio - no other music is allowed
10) Everyone must have something by Stephen Fry on a second screen while playing (I prefer QI, but his tour of America was good)

I think that about covers all the rules that should be in place

[Disclaimer: The above is a joke, no offence is intended.]

You missed only being allowed to play on a 14" screen and 640x480 resolution maximum on low quality! Includes NO VR lol

 

[Cody]

10) Everyone must have something by Stephen Fry on a second screen while playing...

<reaches for the bucket>

I have serious issues with that particular commandment! I do have a beard though, so #7 is fine! As for #6... <sniggers>

 

[ianw]

Isn't this effectively demanding (suggesting) that Open players play in a way they choose not to? Isn't this a big thing that the anti-open-only crowd are against?



If anyone want a 100% effective opposition tactic, then, yes, they aren't going to get it. I also tend to think that it would be a bad thing if it were possible. Make things difficult - yes. Change the way people play - yes. Completely block a legitimate action? - I think this would be more to the detriment of gameplay than a positive.

Technically, if Open had its own BGS, I think it would be fairer. That is because everyone would be on the same playing field as far as things in-game are concerned. There are always going to be differences with timezones, play times, internet stability, instancing, interrupting kids, wives killing zombies, etc. Those are things that are beyond the control of the game. But by switching to a different play mode - the game is offering a difference.



As I have said before, I am in the camp of keeping things as they are. I believe that there are slight issues with fairness related to mode switching. I actually thought that these were fairly plain and just logical. But I have come to accept that not everyone sees them so let's just put that down as personal opinion. But, ultimately, I believe the benefits of the modes outweigh the downsides.

What about the "fairness" of having the same number of people with the same kit playing for each faction?

Does that factor in anywhere in the fairness equation for you?

 

[Jockey79]

Technically, if Open had its own BGS, I think it would be fairer. That is because everyone would be on the same playing field as far as things in-game are concerned. There are always going to be differences with timezones, play times, internet stability, instancing, interrupting kids, wives killing zombies, etc. Those are things that are beyond the control of the game. But by switching to a different play mode - the game is offering a difference.

The technicality is what you are choosing to ignore though.

My single friend who lives in Wales, has a worse internet connection than I do with my wife and 3 children.
I joke that my entire family has to be online for my computers internet connection to be as bad as his on his own.

Have a stab at how many people he can see in open? (the current record is ZERO)

So while you are flying about looking for traders to stop, he is docking and pushing his CG counter up (contributing) while your flying around achieving nothing.
And guess what happens to my gaming experience when my family jumps online of an evening, something very similar.

Because of all those differences is why even with an open only BGS you still have the same situation, some people will fly right by without you ever seeing them.
They, helping their faction or CG counter, you floating in space not helping.

The only way to stop people, to counter them - is push your counter faster than they push theirs.

 

[ianw]

^^ yup - faction peeps just have to jump in their PP hamster wheel and peddle that little bit faster - for glory & victory!

 

[Jockey79]

^^ yup - faction peeps just have to jump in their PP hamster wheel and peddle that little bit faster - for glory & victory!

This is how I see CG and PP;

[video=youtube;jGM_ynt0NsE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGM_ynt0NsE[/video]

 

[ianw]

This is how I see CG and PP;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGM_ynt0NsE

Well how about that - it's quite rare these days for me to see something I've never even heard of!

 

[Jockey79]

Well how about that - it's quite rare these days for me to see something I've never even heard of!

Great game, I had it on one of my old phones. Played it for hours.
I'd suggest you try it out, I think there is free online versions Vs AI to learn against.