Player pirates asking to "abandon" cargo
- Thread starter Arubeto
- Start date
Just like you'd write a book about brain surgery with a degree in sanitation engineering, never had spent a day of your life in medical school, or perhaps be a keynote speaker on a panel about global warming having not a lick of training in any sciences.
Yeah. My argument is a total fallacy.
But hey, that's why I had a five year old write my will and a monkey drill my cavities because anyone can do it and everyone is an expert! YEAH!
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Hahahaha. Show me where on the spaceship that you were hurt.
How dare you tell a canine it doesn't know what it's doing?!
*Shakes fist*
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Oh come on, don't let one person ruin it for you =-=...
I agree. Until a few pages ago this was a constructive discussion with a respectful atmosphere, before it degenerated into the usual bickering about which profession needs to be buffed.
Would be happy if we could get btt.
Pirates requesting you "abandon" rather than "jettison" is a little like people who eat their entire meal at a restaurant, then inform the waitress they ordered the chicken enchilada, not the beef they were served, and so "rightfully" demand a discount. It's certainly allowable, but it makes you one of those people. Of course...they are pirates...I'd probably abandon 5, then jettison the rest, they'll only target the first one to check then detarget so their limpets keep working.
From an RP perspective, I am genuinely at a loss as to why people are arguing that pirates demanding victims to abandon their cargo is incongruous.
Surely it makes perfect sense.
To jettison the cargo, thus making the pirate's life more difficult, would be an act of defiance.
I'm not a pirate, but I have to say that I am completely with them in this. The only stuff they ever get from me is either a wake or the blown up bits of their ship. Still, if I were pirating, I'd want my cake and I'd eat it too. These are pirates, people, they are nasty, violent criminals. That is what makes it interesting.
Surely it makes perfect sense.
To jettison the cargo, thus making the pirate's life more difficult, would be an act of defiance.
I'm not a pirate, but I have to say that I am completely with them in this. The only stuff they ever get from me is either a wake or the blown up bits of their ship. Still, if I were pirating, I'd want my cake and I'd eat it too. These are pirates, people, they are nasty, violent criminals. That is what makes it interesting.
Agreed. I think it's pretty reasonable and makes for part if the process just fine. Tbh, I'd say it would be better if jettisoned cargo was automatically "abandoned". Marking the product should be an extra "insurance" that people could pay for (and perhaps not have it be immediately apparent (requiring a scanner).
Yes, I agree that pirates demanding to abandon cargo makes sense. This has already been discussed on the first page of this thread. The problem I see is that traders don't have the option to place an "ink bomb" in the cargo - also from an RP view speaking. The way it is now, there is no situation where the "jettison" mechanic would ever be used, because every pirate in their right mind would demand cargo to be "abandoned" instead of "jettisoned". Failing to comply would - as you have pointed out correctly and has been confirmed by the posts of many pirates in this thread - just result in your ship getting blown up.
So after 18 pages of discussion I'd say my initial remark that pirates shouldn't demand cargo to be abandoned and instead deal with the fact that stolen cargo is stolen has to be slightly altered. Instead, I'd say pirates demanding abandoned cargo is reasonable, but traders should have additional options how to react in such situations. The ink bomb marking cargo as 'stolen' some time after the encounter would be one option. Of course, this would have to come with some drawback for the trader, for example ink bombs (or their 34th century equivalent) could take up additional cargo space. Or rigging cargo in this way could only be done at stations and would cost a reasonable amount of money. Or the trader would get less money for cargo prepared in this way, should he reach his target with all his stuff in place.
I think there is a lot of potential here to make pirate-trader encounters less deterministic. There were some other good ideas a few pages back, for anyone who cares.
*Dies from a trader POV that actually consider balance when discussing piracy*
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From an gaming perspective it makes perfect sense, from an RP perspective it doesn't.
What you're talking about is the game mechanic of stolen/abandoned goods.
From a RP point of view, there is an issue about the ability of the "station" to identify a stolen cargo.
My humble opinion is:
If marking a stolen cargo as "illegal" is an active action of the "dropper" (the trader), when a ship is destroyed you should not find illegal goods (i do not think someone running for his life pays attention to mark is cargo as illegal just before being killed).
If the condition of "illegal" is an intrinsic property of the item there should not be any alternative options.
If marking items as legal is an active action (aka the item is always illegal IF not marked differently) you have the problem on how/who/where/when you can mark it (why the trader can mark it as legal and the pirate cannot?).
I do not see other options, but would like some clarifications by more experienced players
My humble opinion is:
If marking a stolen cargo as "illegal" is an active action of the "dropper" (the trader), when a ship is destroyed you should not find illegal goods (i do not think someone running for his life pays attention to mark is cargo as illegal just before being killed).
If the condition of "illegal" is an intrinsic property of the item there should not be any alternative options.
If marking items as legal is an active action (aka the item is always illegal IF not marked differently) you have the problem on how/who/where/when you can mark it (why the trader can mark it as legal and the pirate cannot?).
I do not see other options, but would like some clarifications by more experienced players
The way I perceive the mechanism is, when you buy the cargo it is labelled as being bought and owned by you, and can be legally sold by you. When a ship is destroyed and leaves cargo it will also register as stolen since the original buyer doesn't own it anymore. When a trader chooses to abandon, it means dis-activating the ownership label so it can be sold by anyone. Only the owner can disable ownership.
Yes, that's how I understood the ownership of cargo, too.
Good point. It just leaves one open RP question: WHO can identify the cargo as stolen/legal? only the station? also the pirate?
You seem to think I have it back to front, whereas I think what you have written there is front to back!
No matter, perhaps I did not express myself with sufficient clarity.
In terms of RP, the gameplay mechanics "are what they are", and since traders have two options when spewing out cargo, it therefore makes sense for pirates to play the mechanic in an appropriate way.
Taking the opposing view brings us into an interesting philosophical discussion, which I hope we can continue at some point in the future.
Well, since any pilot can see it, any pilot, so also the pirate
Sensors would pick up the label I guess.Just thought of a hacking limpet. It's a normal limpet which can fetch you cargo, but while doing so, it hacks into the cargo to deactivate the ownership label. Much more costly than normal limpets, and the chance of success depends on the class limpet controller. That way pirates can make an investment into spending more on limpets (500 per limpet instead of 100 will still not make a dent in most bankaccounts) but also scavengers can make use of these, but gain the benefit of having more valuable cargo.
Not an authority on the matter, so you could be rightYou seem to think I have it back to front, whereas I think what you have written there is front to back!
Yep, you're right. We have differing opinions on what constitutes Role-playing, and yeah that would be a good discussion.
Please no one make a thread about it, I have to do at least a little bit of work today.
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Don't worry. I have a lot of fun in-game and enjoy conversations on this forum.
And don't worry I don't really want piracy to be removed form the game, it was just a joke (obviously I fail miserably at making jokes).
I understand that it can get tedious to explain something again and again and that because of this the skin of some pirate-players is very thin related to this topic. I appreciate that you take the time to clarify and explain things to others.
If all pirates demand "abandon" then the other option is completely useless. One of the options doesn't make sense from a game mechanic point of view and could be removed without affecting the game.
It's up to the developers to decide which of the options should get removed or to add content in a way that makes both options viable alternatives.
There are a lot of postings on this forum that complain about the lack of content. This is a good example where the developers could add content that enriches the gameplay for everybody.
How about hiding the "abandoned" status of cargo until you've docked somewhere? Players would still be able to transfer cargo willingly, and pirates would have no way of knowing which you'd chosen until you were long gone. The pirate still gets the booty and the trader avoids feeling like they got totally reamed.
For the record, I'll never abandon unless I actually want to give the cargo away. You can take my stuff at gunpoint, but I'll be buggered before I hand over a thankyou note and a complimentary After Eight along with it.
For the record, I'll never abandon unless I actually want to give the cargo away. You can take my stuff at gunpoint, but I'll be buggered before I hand over a thankyou note and a complimentary After Eight along with it.