Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[relayer]

Time for my quarterly post...

WHY do people in other modes (realistically, this means open) have such a hard time understanding that, as a solo player (who occasionally plays open or groups), I am affected by everyone in other modes (open, group)? I have no chance to skip away from such changes - I just shoulder them as just part of the BGS/environment/one more RND influence.

OPEN AFFECTS ME IN SOLO. Why are the solo players supposed to suck up open's changes, while open wants to take away the effect solo/groups have on the BGS? Talk about unbalancing...

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I never insulted anyone....

<snip>

I apologize that your reasoning ability made you think that you were...

<snip>

cowards

<snip>

etc.

<snip>

Your first sentence belies everything that comes after it. I will leave things to the mods.

 

[DarkWalker]

And would go as far as to tell people not to bring their dirty carebear gear in to PvP.

The insult is clearly unasked for, but depending on when that happened, asking to avoid bringing PvE gear into PvP was valid; for a good while in WoW, without the extra resilience from PvP gear a character would be killed almost instantly in PvP.

It is the same reason I, as a tank, started refusing players decked in PvP gear for dungeon runs. The extra resilience in the gear reduced the other stats, making the gear much less powerful in PvE than the equivalent PvE gear. A PvP-geared DPSer would do so little DPS he would be useless, and a PvP-geared healer would be out of mana before the first pull was halfway done.

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<strike>gang</strike>

You can use stricken through text by putting it between [ s] and [ /s] (remove the spaces inside the brackets).

 

[relayer]

Thanks, doc. I am glad someone finally made the clinical diagnosis that pulling someone out of supercruise and divesting them of their cargo (and/or ship if they are uncooperative) is a valid MENTAL problem.

Bran Tse Mallory said nothing of the sort. You are distorting his reply. He said:
"gankers are emotionally immature people who need medical help with their mental problems but that's another story!"

You describe piracy or pvp. I could only see you upset if you were, in fact, a ganker, which is not at all
"pulling someone out of supercruise and divesting them of their cargo (and/or ship if they are uncooperative)"

If you don't know the difference between this and ganking, your argument is going to go nowhere.

 

[Zieman]

You can use stricken through text by putting it between [ s] and [ /s] (remove the spaces inside the brackets).

Like [s]this[/s]?

 

[relayer]

1. A system with two faction in civil war for over a month because no ship had visited the system thus forcing an update.
2. Booms and busts lasting similar lengths of time for the same reason.
3. Faction influence not changing if no ships visit the system.

Basically, the instancing system applies to the BGS as well - if an instance is not created within the 24 hour update cycle, the system is not processed. If you think about it, this is a really smart move, as it saves the transaction server from calculating unnessecary updates. It does lead to the occasional strangeness such as described above.

+rep for info! Didn't know this about the BGS; very interesting. Thanks!

 

[Sysmon]

Personally I enjoy being able to shift between modes. As have been mentioned above, both modes influence each other anyway so we never will get rid of being influenced by the other modes. What we do get rid of is the ability to directly influence or be influenced by other players.

Last night I finally returned after a long exploration trip, selling 50 million CR worth of data at Lave Station. To avoid troublemakers I switched to Solo for the last part of the trip (I generally play open). NPCs can cause trouble too, of course, but they generally don't lurk about with a setup for strongest possible alpha strikes and they don't attack you inside stations. I will also gladly switch to Solo if I'm just inconvenienced by the presence other players. But I do enjoy the company of other players and am not against PvP/player piracy if months of work and all my assets are not at risk.

Ideally there would be no need for a Solo mode in my opinion. But for that to work, the penalties for unprovoked and/or unlawful attacking should be higher and better enforced by the game. However, that would leave out many players that play ED to see the world burn. I'm not sure they should be kept from playing this game just because I don't condone that choice of career. A bit more effective policing and lasting consequences of illegal activities, especially murder, might be useful though.

S

 

[relayer]

I have had several of my "customers" file reports on me for "grief play" even though I had only ever had a single encounter with them. (I dont know that they actually have filed them, but I have been threatened with the report).

I am finding difficulty with your posts for the reason/example quoted above.

First you state something as a fact: "I have had several of my "customers" file reports on me for "grief play" even though I had only ever had a single encounter with them."

Then right after: "(I dont know that they actually have filed them, but I have been threatened with the report)."

So it's hard to trust your numbers, your evidence or your arguments.

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As a player who is not interested in PvP but very much interested in Co-Op I would instantly switch to Open the second FD introduced a non-PvP flag.

I would also, in a nanosecond.

 

[Commander Debic]

There you go see, someone pulls this old chestnut out of the ashes and they start roasting it all over again. Happy Christmas guys.

 

[relayer]

You can use stricken through text by putting it between [ s] and [ /s] (remove the spaces inside the brackets).

ARRRGH! I tried that but it didn't seem to take, so I tried the older tag. Thx!

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Like [s]this[/s]?

hahaha EXACTLY! *sticks tongue out at DarkWalker*

and erm, shouldn't that be <> and not []?

Dang this new html stuff...

[experiments like a true scientist]

Let's try the bracketed Ses: does this work? YES

Or the <> : <s> does this work?</s> NO


hmmph when did they switch from <> html tags to []? grrrr

Finally, some reason: "HTML <strike> tag: not supported in HTML 5"

 

[Leto Thule]

I am finding difficulty with your posts for the reason/example quoted above.

First you state something as a fact: "I have had several of my "customers" file reports on me for "grief play" even though I had only ever had a single encounter with them."

Then right after: "(I dont know that they actually have filed them, but I have been threatened with the report)."

So it's hard to trust your numbers, your evidence or your arguments.

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I would also, in a nanosecond.

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone. Many people view pirate activity as grief play, and have threatened to report me. I don't know if they actually do it, because I do not have access to the ticket.

As to the first post, no, a ganker is not mentally unstable nor do they need medical help. It says that, verbatim, in the post YOU quoted. Please explain how that is to be taken any other way. I am not a ganker, but I know players that you would define as such, and they are regular people, just like you and me. Nobody needs "medical help" for actions taken in a game. If they did, Call of Duty would be producing more serial killers and mercenaries than the record books could hold!

 

[Leto Thule]

Last night I finally returned after a long exploration trip, selling 50 million CR worth of data at Lave Station. To avoid troublemakers I switched to Solo for the last part of the trip (I generally play open). NPCs can cause trouble too, of course, but they generally don't lurk about with a setup for strongest possible alpha strikes and they don't attack you inside stations. I will also gladly switch to Solo if I'm just inconvenienced by the presence other players. But I do enjoy the company of other players and am not against PvP/player piracy if months of work and all my assets are not at risk.

Well sir, that is where pirates thrive. Of course its not something you want to lose. I realize I am likely in the minority here, but I enjoy the thrill of being hunted when I am carrying an exorbitant amount of assets. How are us pirates suppose to make any cash if everyone does this?

Ideally there would be no need for a Solo mode in my opinion. But for that to work, the penalties for unprovoked and/or unlawful attacking should be higher and better enforced by the game. However, that would leave out many players that play ED to see the world burn. I'm not sure they should be kept from playing this game just because I don't condone that choice of career. A bit more effective policing and lasting consequences of illegal activities, especially murder, might be useful though.
S

This would be fantastic. As a pirate, I expect to be hounded by law enforcement while in areas I have accrued a bounty. Making me have mods on my ship to be able to dock at unfriendly ports, having to sneak in, and being chased by security forces would be fantastic. The current fine system is inconvenient at best. I accosted someone the other day who refused to negotiate, and decided to run... and as my flight group vaporized his hauler I received a paltry 400 CR bounty. Pfft. It went away later that day. I want notoriety!! Give me the bounty I need so that people come after me! Advertise my nefarious deeds on port screens and send mission runners after ME instead of NPCs!

Edit: Yes, you read that right. I said "flight group". I am not here for good fights, I am here to steal things! Honorable combat? Go to CQB.

Yarr!

 

[DarkWalker]

Well sir, that is where pirates thrive. Of course its not something you want to lose. I realize I am likely in the minority here, but I enjoy the thrill of being hunted when I am carrying an exorbitant amount of assets. How are us pirates suppose to make any cash if everyone does this?

I really don't get this. I find being hunted when I do have something to lose to be purely frustrating, without anything positive to make up for it. The thrill for me is in the action, not in the stakes.
(But then, of course, I'm the opposite of a gambler. I've never spent a red cent in gambling in my whole life.)

And, as far as pirates making cash from players, you have no sympathy from me. I'm the kind of player that would rather self-destruct back to a Sidewinder than allow a pirate to get even one unit of biowaste from me.

 

[relayer]

Many people view pirate activity as grief play

I am guessing you have never read Jordan Cobalt [resident pirate]'s views on piracy and the ensuing dialogue from solo or group players that specifically states "I do not mind piracy when it is piracy. I do not support ganking in any way." There are many posts in this thread stating the above, all 3 incarnations of it.

As to the first post, no, a ganker is not mentally unstable nor do they need medical help. It says that, verbatim, in the post YOU quoted. Please explain how that is to be taken any other way.

Well...

"A ganker is someone that preys on "easy" targets, most of the time the ganker is of a higher level or having superior gear available to him/her." - WoWWiki

"Ganking is the process in which a group of characters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level" - Urban Dictionary

"Bullying: to use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants." - American Heritage Dictionary

"Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior that involves a real or perceived power imbalance." - Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of sociall or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict." - Wikipedia

Sociopath: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience." - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)

Psychopathy: "is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited behavior." - Wikipedia


Those are the generally accepted definitions of "ganking" and of a particular mental disorder. A hallmark of such disorders is the inability of the person to recognize their disorder when it is apparent to most people.

 

[Leto Thule]

I am guessing you have never read Jordan Cobalt [resident pirate]'s views on piracy and the ensuing dialogue from solo or group players that specifically states "I do not mind piracy when it is piracy. I do not support ganking in any way." There are many posts in this thread stating the above, all 3 incarnations of it.



Well...

"A ganker is someone that preys on "easy" targets, most of the time the ganker is of a higher level or having superior gear available to him/her." - WoWWiki

"Ganking is the process in which a group of characters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level" - Urban Dictionary

"Bullying: to use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants." - American Heritage Dictionary

"Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior that involves a real or perceived power imbalance." - Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of sociall or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict." - Wikipedia

Sociopath: "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience." - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)

Psychopathy: "is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited behavior." - Wikipedia


Those are the generally accepted definitions of "ganking" and of a particular mental disorder. A hallmark of such disorders is the inability of the person to recognize their disorder when it is apparent to most people.

HAHAHAHAH!! Did you just really link me an URBAN DICTIONARY entry as a reference?!??! You are really, really grasping at straws here my friend.

As for the medical dictionary entries, they apply to REAL WORLD things. If a bully takes your lunch money, or degrades you in front of your peers, THAT is bullying. If you have antisocial behavior and lack of conscious IN REAL LIFE, that is a sociopath. A PSYCHOPATH is someone who KILLS PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE. I wont bother stating the obvious fact.. ah yes I will... that THIS IS A GAME!! People dont get hurt! If I heist you in the game, and it affects you in REAL LIFE, you should NOT BE PLAYING IT!!

Edit: Also, the quotes you provided for bullying, 100% describe piracy - NOT ganking.

"Bullying: to use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants." - American Heritage Dictionary - Yep, pirates need to be strong.

"Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior that involves a real or perceived power imbalance." - Webster's Collegiate Dictionary - Pretty sure nobody "wants" to be pirated. And yes, spaceship weapons and violence are involved. Fake, of course.

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of sociall or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict." - Wikipedia "Cut your engines, lower your shields, or I will open fire! Yarr!"

All examples provided by you, and all three of them describe what a pirate does. I assure you, I am no bully in real life.

 

[Mouse]

HAHAHAHAH!! Did you just really link me an URBAN DICTIONARY entry as a reference?!??! You are really, really grasping at straws here my friend.

As for the medical dictionary entries, they apply to REAL WORLD things. If a bully takes your lunch money, or degrades you in front of your peers, THAT is bullying. If you have antisocial behavior and lack of conscious IN REAL LIFE, that is a sociopath. A PSYCHOPATH is someone who KILLS PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE. I wont bother stating the obvious fact.. ah yes I will... that THIS IS A GAME!! People dont get hurt! If I heist you in the game, and it affects you in REAL LIFE, you should NOT BE PLAYING IT!!

Edit: Also, the quotes you provided for bullying, 100% describe piracy - NOT ganking.

"Bullying: to use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants." - American Heritage Dictionary - Yep, pirates need to be strong.

"Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior that involves a real or perceived power imbalance." - Webster's Collegiate Dictionary - Pretty sure nobody "wants" to be pirated. And yes, spaceship weapons and violence are involved. Fake, of course.

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of sociall or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict." - Wikipedia "Cut your engines, lower your shields, or I will open fire! Yarr!"

All examples provided by you, and all three of them describe what a pirate does. I assure you, I am no bully in real life.

So there is no such thing as cyber bullying? And if someone PVPing me ingame when I've asked them not to or removed myself into a private group not too .. and they infiltrate to PVP .. I should not play because it will cause issues in real life?

PVP is that important that we should ignore that even IN A GAME.. things can effect real life?

 

[Cowboy Bats]

HAHAHAHAH!! Did you just really link me an URBAN DICTIONARY entry as a reference?!??! You are really, really grasping at straws here my friend.

Gank is portmanteau of gang and kill. It's gaming jargon, hence urban dictionary would indeed be the place to find that particular definition. It's not a real word at this point likely to be addressed by Websters.

As for the rest of your post dismissing allegations because this is a game. To be honest, I find that to be naive at best. There are numerous examples of players in this very game who've gone out of their way to cause the most inconvenience to other players for kicks, such as the laying in wait at Hutton pre-mug days because of the sadistic satisfaction of costing the unsuspecting player all that time in supercruise. That is most certainly an expression of some underlying anti-social pathology.

You can justify these behaviors all you want, but that won't change the fact that some of us know better, and we really just don't want to play with disturbed individuals. To be honest, this subject is even difficult to discuss here, because with the rules being what they are, it is almost impossible to accurately portray such players without committing a forum offense. Suffice it to say that even if we can't call a spade a spade here, we'd still like to keep other spades out of our gardens.

 

[DarkWalker]

All examples provided by you, and all three of them describe what a pirate does.

Yep. Thankfully the game as designed allows me to exclude those players from ever meeting me, as I have no desire to ever play with them. Being in the same instance as them would render the game unfit to serve as entertainment for me.

 

[Faded Glory]

I am not advocating forcing people into pvp!!! I never said anyone was a coward in real life, and again, what you do in a game isn't who you are in reality. If so, please point me to where my space ship is parked.

For what it's worth, and for clarity, I wasn't, at all, suggesting you were. I actually think you have come across as a perfectly decent pirate role player. I just felt like adding my 2 cents worth to the current discussion, because while you do not do those things, this whole 'episode' of this thread was ignited by someone doing just that, and suggesting that the cowards who hide in solo should be treated like second or third class gamers.

Sorry for the misunderstanding Leto, and apologies to you (but not the other poster) if I offended you.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Closing for clean up.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Opening again. Let's not get into offtopic debates about psychology, and some of the posts were getting close to direct implications regarding certain players mental health. I don't think we need discussions like that.

Keep it friendly, keep it sane