External View [A definitive discussion]

[NeilF]

I assume from what everyone is saying, that we aren't going to have rear views on our ships ?

is this correct?

Doesn't seem likely. Clearly in real world it's daft that there wouldn't technology to achieve this, along with computerised visual systems to spot "stealth" ships for you etc etc. But we're of course talking about a game and not real life, so FD make choices in order to help create interesting/challenging game play. I guess a rear view camera might be seen to them as detrimental?

The same might be the reason we never get an external view.

 

[Riedquat]

I concur - A poll that adds up to over 160% doesn't bode well!

As for the purpose of the thread, seems you misunderstand its purpose maybe. No one is trying to tell FD their jobs.

I strongly suspect that if a similar poll (done correctly) was available on the game launcher screen six months after release, that we would see very different results once people have had a chance to settle in.

Being confined to one view is more at home in arcade style shooters than deep and meaningful space sims, especially the one that gave birth to the rest.

If there is no rear view available ( I'm not sure if this is the case), then IMO that is an even bigger mistake.

I am 100% certain that FD will have a change of direction somewhere on this at some point in the future, it will be a compromise, but it will be something.

 

[NeilF]

I strongly suspect that if a similar poll (done correctly) was available on the game launcher screen six months after release, that we would see very different results once people have had a chance to settle in.

Being confined to one view is more at home in arcade style shooters than deep and meaningful space sims, especially the one that gave birth to the rest.

If there is no rear view available ( I'm not sure if this is the case), then IMO that is an even bigger mistake.

I am 100% certain that FD will have a change of direction somewhere on this at some point in the future, it will be a compromise, but it will be something.

Well, I hope you're right. I hope there is a simple external view in some shape or form when the game is released. But if it turns out FD see too many issues, then it will never be

 

[Sterlino]

thumbs up for the rear view available, but in doubt abot the external view thing.

and about the poll, i just said .. it's a lame.
many answers with the same topic
and only 1 for the 3rd person view pourpose.

I TRUST devs... they will choose the best for this game i am very sure about it.
we don't need a poll or whatever..

 

[NeilF]

and about the poll, i just said .. it's a lame.
many answers with the same topic
and only 1 for the 3rd person view pourpose.

Yes, the poll is a bit of a mess. Unfortunately it's a bit of a legacy thing and even the mods can't remove it

 

[NeoRacer]

I don't see what the problem is?

 

[Theodrid]

Sorry Neo...I don't fully understand?, are you suggesting a toggle external view on/off button?

Forgive me, but that is missing the point of this entire thread if that is what you are suggesting.

 

[NeoRacer]

It is what Im suggesting, and Im seeing all kinds of weird and wonderful draconian solutions to the issue that some people think its an immersion killer and cheat if you can see 3p. Well Im saying its easily solved by a few toggle switches. We dont need to re-invent the wheel and handicap enjoyment of this game bcus a vocal minority has issues. Wait till the full game is out..there will be a huge 'what' from 'regular' gamers.

Sorry Neo...I don't fully understand?, are you suggesting a toggle external view on/off button?

Forgive me, but that is missing the point of this entire thread if that is what you are suggesting.

 

[jabokai]

I don't see what the problem is?

The problem is that some people are obsessed with PvP and do not want any options which could be seen as giving any kind of advantage to others, no matter how small, that they themselves do not want to use.

That's it, in a nutshell.

 

[Theodrid]

It is what Im suggesting, and Im seeing all kinds of weird and wonderful draconian solutions to the issue that some people think its an immersion killer and cheat if you can see 3p. Well Im saying its easily solved by a few toggle switches. We dont need to re-invent the wheel and handicap enjoyment of this game bcus a vocal minority has issues. Wait till the full game is out..there will be a huge 'what' from 'regular' gamers.

Minority, are you sure about that? And there are many, many valid concerns in this thread from people against or worried that a 3rdppov will offer strategic and combat advantages. These cannot be dismissed with an 'oh well if you don't like it, then don't use it' kind of response I'm afraid. Why? - Well, those in the 'against it' position do not feel comfortable encountering players with it enabled in certain situations.

 

[Rog]

The problem is that some people are obsessed with PvP and do not want any options which could be seen as giving any kind of advantage to others, no matter how small, that they themselves do not want to use.

That's it, in a nutshell.

Jabokai is exactly right. The needs/demands of PvP seems to be steamrollering just about every other aspect of the game.

It's a real shame, because PvP is going to be a small part of gameplay for many, and non-existent for quite a few.

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

The problem is that some people are obsessed with PvP and do not want any options which could be seen as giving any kind of advantage to others, no matter how small, that they themselves do not want to use.

That's it, in a nutshell.

The problem is many of you folks appear to completely ignore what Frontier have plainly stated in regards to the real reason for a first person only perspective.

Frontier wants to create an experience where the player is in their characters body which is inside the ship. A third person view takes a player outside of their body.

By ignoring that aspect and arguing for a third person view within the parameter of "advantage vs lack of advantage" is a red herring.

Any implementation of a third person view which would take the player outside their in game body undermines the experience of what Frontier have stated they are trying to make.

Folks can argue outside that parameter as much as they like but by doing so they are treating the real issue with contempt. Those who support a third person view which takes a player outside their body (ie. 3rd person apart from a drone/camera controlled accessed through the cockpit hud) are simply people who are in opposition to the notion that a player is actually "in" their player body.

Jabokai is exactly right. The needs/demands of PvP seems to be steamrollering just about every other aspect of the game.

It's a real shame, because PvP is going to be a small part of gameplay for many, and non-existent for quite a few.

You folks keep stating nonsense like this. The first person only view is premised on the idea that the player is in their body. It has nothing fundamentally to do with PvP.

Now I know it is easier to argue from a point of fiction and get wrapped up in side issues because the fundamental issue is black and white but all you are really doing is attempting to a score goal whilst ignoring the actual goal box.

 

[TheSpackman]

The problem is many of you folks appear to completely ignore what Frontier have plainly stated in regards to the real reason for a first person only perspective.

Frontier wants to create an experience where the player is in their characters body which is inside the ship. A third person view takes a player outside of their body.

By ignoring that aspect and arguing for a third person view within the parameter of "advantage vs lack of advantage" is a red herring.

Any implementation of a third person view which would take the player outside their in game body undermines the experience of what Frontier have stated they are trying to make.

Folks can argue outside that parameter as much as they like but by doing so they are treating the real issue with contempt. Those who support a third person view which takes a player outside their body (ie. 3rd person apart from a drone/camera controlled accessed through the cockpit hud) are simply people who are in opposition to the notion that a player is actually "in" their player body.

Personally my imagination is perfectly capable of still believing itself inside the ship regardless of the view I have.

Fair point (rather arrogantly made) if Frontier have stated their vision for what the limited perspective of the game provides and I can admire that.

Doesn't mean I have to agree with it nor cease discussing why I'd miss a 3rd person view.

Your angle is a good one though simply different from the problem people are generally expressing they have with the 3rd person view.

 

[Mike Evans]

You folks keep stating nonsense like this. The first person only view is premised on the idea that the player is in their body. It has nothing fundamentally to do with PvP.

Now I know it is easier to argue from a point of fiction and get wrapped up in side issues because the fundamental issue is black and white but all you are really doing is attempting to a score goal whilst ignoring the actual goal box.

Pretty much. The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it. The fact it has implications for multiplayer (those implications being that everything is conveniently fair) is a bonus really.

 

[jabokai]

The problem is many of you folks appear to completely ignore what Frontier have plainly stated in regards to the real reason for a first person only perspective.

Frontier wants to create an experience where the player is in their characters body which is inside the ship. A third person view takes a player outside of their body.

By ignoring that aspect and arguing for a third person view within the parameter of "advantage vs lack of advantage" is a red herring.

Not ignoring it at all, I just disagree with it! Plenty of games offer multiple views as a way to play - the fact that Frontier choose to restrict you to one view because they see it as the best experience is of no concern to me as a point of discussion. They're ignoring the fact that their view is not "correct", it's just another view. Of course, they have the power (and right) to do so, they evidently don't mind that it will upset a bunch of people in the process... and they don't need to care because they've always said they'd make the game they want to play and that's fine.

As it happens I hate 3rd person view for playing games but I'd still like to see it in just because so many other people would like it and it would affect me not a jot! Unlike Frontier who seem keen to force their vision on us whether we like it or not I'd prefer people to be able to customise that vision to suit themselves to a reasonable degree... hell, we can't even change that horrible orange colour in the cockpit!

The competitive aspect of 3rd person is not a red herring because people who don't want 3rd person bring it up as much as the "grand vision" argument so why wouldn't people present opposing arguments along the same lines?

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

Pretty much. The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it. The fact it has implications for multiplayer (those implications being that everything is conveniently fair) is a bonus really.

I am very thankful it is the direction you fellas have taken.

It is a risk for sure as it does not cater to what most people have gotten used to. Yet as has been stated you are making the game you want to play, not a game to simply cater to the bottom line.

I really think Frontier are onto something very unique and thus taking the a road into new territory and by doing so are going to set a new standard and influence future game design in a very positive way.

I appreciate the good work.

 

[Mors Magne]

I totally agree with sticking to the first-person view - "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Having a 3rd person view is likely to lead to unforeseen circumstances. For example, Elite: Dangerous runs the risk of being compared unfavorably to Eve Online:

Eve Online was designed to be played from a 3rd person viewpoint. If reviewers review Elite: Dangerous using a 3rd person view point they will compare Elite: Dangerous unfavorably to Eve Online. This is because Elite was designed to be a first person game.

A comparison like this could be a total disaster!

I actually feel very strongly about this. Immersion and the feel of the game is everything. For example, the game Archeage has a list of features that includes just about everything - but it's still a rubbish game!

 

[Mors Magne]

The problem is many of you folks appear to completely ignore what Frontier have plainly stated in regards to the real reason for a first person only perspective.

Frontier wants to create an experience where the player is in their characters body which is inside the ship. A third person view takes a player outside of their body.

By ignoring that aspect and arguing for a third person view within the parameter of "advantage vs lack of advantage" is a red herring.

Any implementation of a third person view which would take the player outside their in game body undermines the experience of what Frontier have stated they are trying to make.

Folks can argue outside that parameter as much as they like but by doing so they are treating the real issue with contempt. Those who support a third person view which takes a player outside their body (ie. 3rd person apart from a drone/camera controlled accessed through the cockpit hud) are simply people who are in opposition to the notion that a player is actually "in" their player body.



You folks keep stating nonsense like this. The first person only view is premised on the idea that the player is in their body. It has nothing fundamentally to do with PvP.

Now I know it is easier to argue from a point of fiction and get wrapped up in side issues because the fundamental issue is black and white but all you are really doing is attempting to a score goal whilst ignoring the actual goal box.

I totally agree with this 100%.

I played Elite back in the 80's - while sitting at your keyboard you really felt as if you were really inside your space ship. A 3rd person view would destroy that powerful feeling.

If people feel differently, go back to playing Eve Online - I dislike that game!

 

[Cody]

The experience is the main issue and the reason we did it.

<nods> Good!

 

[Riedquat]

I just wanted to see my ship...that's all.

How about giant mirrors in space?