Immersion breaking discovery in exploration : cannot pass a literal 'wall'

[cesmode]

Hi,
So I am out exploring just beyond Horsehead Nebula, specifically at Messier 78 Sector CQ-y C 1. I tried to jump to another star that is further out and couldn't...ok, I tried another, and another and I cant. After zooming out, I realized that I have just crossed an 'invisible' wall or a boundary that is meant for ships that can jump 30LY+...and after looking at it further I realized that this boundary is literally in the shape of a cube around horsehead/barnards/orion/etc...

Its as if someone said "Draw a box around this entire area and pack it with stars. Outside of this box, reduce the density of stars by X% and increase the distance between stars by X%". It looks deliberate and not natural.

I have no issues with stars becoming increasingly difficult to reach the further out you go...and/or if at some point I just cant go any further. But looking at the Galaxy map I am witnessing a systematic wall of stars, literally in the form of a wall/straight line, where I can't go any further...the density of stars is drastically reduced beyond this specific point. My problem is that this didn't happen naturally, randomly, and in variable areas of the the surrounding area. It is a wall going straight across that hits a corner, and then turns and makes a wall going around the other side. In the galaxy, in the universe, things like this wouldn't happen systematically, blatantly, and abruptly. It happens over time...some areas maybe you can get around, some you cannot.

Its like you are level 20 in an MMO and when you try to go to the zone next to the one you are currently in, the game says "you need to be level 30 to enter this zone". Thats the developer literally saying "You are not geared enough to be here". This is hugely immersion breaking in E because literally the entire point of exploration is pushing boundaries with what you have.

Still enjoying it, and there are a ton of stars to explore near me but if I wanted to go any further from Sol, I need to end my trip, head back to Sol and upgrade.

Honestly, this kind of dealt a blow for me.

 

[Beckstation]

Build up to become a better and more stronger player. Gain more credits from exploring locally and then you can work your way to a ship that can jump more of a distance. Then you can explore wherever. Also if you plot a route you the star you wanted to go to, the computer will get you there. Somehow.

 

[the100thmonkey]

There are a few artefacts in the galaxy map where real data was merged with the procedurally-generated galaxy. Rather than developer intervention, it seems to me that you've found one (photos are square.)

I'm not in-game at the moment, so not able to look, but I will say one thing: Why on earth are you exploring that far away in a ship that hasn't got the FSD to make >30LY jumps?

 

[cesmode]

Build up to become a better and more stronger player. Gain more credits from exploring locally and then you can work your way to a ship that can jump more of a distance. Then you can explore wherever. Also if you plot a route you the star you wanted to go to, the computer will get you there. Somehow.

You kind of missed my point. I fully understand that there are unreachable stars depending on your FSD jump distance. I get that. The problem I had is that this is visible in the literal shape of a box around the area that I am at...Its an abrupt wall of stars that are clustered together in a line and beyond that, it gets immediately drastically less dense. It didn't happen gradually or naturally. Its like passing from one zone to the next and you see the drastic change.

And I tried plotting a route to one of the unreachable stars and the computer says "route unavailable". I can only assume that this means that given my ships jump range, I can't jump from star to star in a route and end up where I want to be.

 

[bitstorm]

I believe it's to do with the procedural generation, that each cube sector is procedurally generated independently based on a seed, as a result you get those horrible divisions occurring.

That might not be quite right, but I think it's something along those lines, I think only Frontier truely knows how it's implemented.

I suppose potentially one way to fix it might be for Frontier to make the sectors smaller around those division lines, that way they can smooth it all out a bit. But then again maybe that might not be very easy to do.

 

[cesmode]

There are a few artefacts in the galaxy map where real data was merged with the procedurally-generated galaxy. Rather than developer intervention, it seems to me that you've found one (photos are square.)

I'm not in-game at the moment, so not able to look, but I will say one thing: Why on earth are you exploring that far away in a ship that hasn't got the FSD to make >30LY jumps?

Can you explain that a bit more? What do you mean artifacts? All I found was a cluster of stars in the form of a wall going up and down an around the nebulas.

And why am I going that far? Because I want to And anyone on these forums have said "just go". Sadly, Im realizing that regardless of direction that I headed out in, aside from heading toward the galactic core, I can just go up until a certain point and that certain point is the same regardless of direction.

 

[Thetele]

With horizon and synthesis you can make your jump range 2x better, 30 ly range become 60.

 

[cesmode]

I believe it's to do with the procedural generation, that each cube sector is procedurally generated independently based on a seed, as a result you get those horrible divisions occurring.

That might not be quite right, but I think it's something along those lines, I think only Frontier truely knows how it's implemented.

I suppose potentially one way to fix it might be for Frontier to make the sectors smaller around those division lines, that way they can smooth it all out a bit.

Exactly what Im trying to say, thank you. And I fully accept that I may very well be approaching the range limit of my ship. I just didn't want it to happen so abruptly, and when viewing the area in galaxy map its obvious that the game is saying "Beyond this exact system, you cant go any further regardless of which direction you set out in".

 

[Kristov]

Ok, your post is a little confusing to me, could be me, so let me ask a question or two..

Can your ship not jump 30+ LY and you hit an area where the stars are over 30LY apart?

OR did you a hit an area where stars suddenly stop and create a gap that's over 40LY across

This is purely stock jump range distance mind you, synthesis boost for the FSD now gives the ability to hit an 80LY jump range for an Anaconda set for max range, and an Asp set for max can hit around 70LY. And there's plenty of areas in the galaxy where the stars seem to form a wall and there's nothing on the other side within 45LY or farther, perfectly natural formation due to the spinning motion of the galaxy and it's spiral arm shape, that isn't a man made artifact meant as a wall.

I've hit areas like that out along the 'bottom' of the galaxy, you hit them in the Expanses and other areas coreward from the Rim as well, just look at the galaxy map, you can see quite a few with the naked eye looking at the entire galaxy from above, zoom in and you can find a lot more of those areas scattered around.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Can you explain that a bit more? What do you mean artifacts? All I found was a cluster of stars in the form of a wall going up and down an around the nebulas.

I mean "artefact" in the same way that photoshop leaves artefacts in an image that it has been used to manipulate. There's an old thread on the forums about a pillar of stars that really stands out from the rest of the galaxy. Turns out it's based on, iirc, Kepler data.

And why am I going that far? Because I want to And anyone on these forums have said "just go". Sadly, Im realizing that regardless of direction that I headed out in, aside from heading toward the galactic core, I can just go up until a certain point and that certain point is the same regardless of direction.

No. You can go a very long way in even a Sidewinder kitted out for exploration - it will give you a >20LY jump range. A Hauler will give you > 30LY if you run it unshielded. There's a CMDR on the forums who's circumnavigated the galaxy in a Sidewinder.

The maximum FSD range I've seen is a hair over 40LY in an Anaconda fitted for exploration. There is no "certain point" written into the game aside from the actual FSD range of your ship. It's possible, in principle, to visit any and every star system in the galaxy, provided you have the tools for it. If you own Horizons, equipping an SRV and collecting materials from the surface of landable bodies enables "FSD injection", which can double your jump range while the injection lasts. You're looking at >80LY in an exploration-fit Anaconda, and over 70LY in an Asp, with 60LY in an Asp capable of running from enemies.

Consider the seeming impossibility of exploring that region as a challenge - get the credits together to take an Asp Explorer (or a Hauler, if you're feeling stupid brave) and jump that gap. Either that, or find a way round. I'm sure that there has been no deliberate tinkering by the devs. In fact, you'll probably find that when you get round the rift, you're not the first soul to have visited.

 

[cesmode]

Ok, your post is a little confusing to me, could be me, so let me ask a question or two..

Can your ship not jump 30+ LY and you hit an area where the stars are over 30LY apart?

OR did you a hit an area where stars suddenly stop and create a gap that's over 40LY across

This is purely stock jump range distance mind you, synthesis boost for the FSD now gives the ability to hit an 80LY jump range for an Anaconda set for max range, and an Asp set for max can hit around 70LY. And there's plenty of areas in the galaxy where the stars seem to form a wall and there's nothing on the other side within 45LY or farther, perfectly natural formation due to the spinning motion of the galaxy and it's spiral arm shape, that isn't a man made artifact meant as a wall.

I've hit areas like that out along the 'bottom' of the galaxy, you hit them in the Expanses and other areas coreward from the Rim as well, just look at the galaxy map, you can see quite a few with the naked eye looking at the entire galaxy from above, zoom in and you can find a lot more of those areas scattered around.

I hit a spot where literally the distance between stars is no less than 30LY. Its not a line, its a wall going up down and across around the nebulae that I mentioned in the original post, its on three sides of these nebulae (the fourth side is the side that Sol is on so obviously no wall there).

 

[Vasious]

Exactly what Im trying to say, thank you. And I fully accept that I may very well be approaching the range limit of my ship. I just didn't want it to happen so abruptly, and when viewing the area in galaxy map its obvious that the game is saying "Beyond this exact system, you cant go any further regardless of which direction you set out in".

Can you circumnavigate and come in from a different direction?
Trying to get across some of the thinly populated areas, I have had to take detours over a 1000 light years, so the route planner initially just says "no path"

I think I had trouble with NGC 7822 in a 25 ight year Adder

 

[the100thmonkey]

I hit a spot where literally the distance between stars is no less than 30LY. Its not a line, its a wall going up down and across around the nebulae that I mentioned in the original post, its on three sides of these nebulae (the fourth side is the side that Sol is on so obviously no wall there).

There are another two avenues that you haven't considered then - getting in from "above" or "below" the wall.

Jump back home. Sell the data. Upgrade your ship. Laugh at the wall.

 

[cesmode]

Can you circumnavigate and come in from a different direction?
Trying to get across some of the thinly populated areas, I have had to take detours over a 1000 light years, so the route planner initially just says "no path"

I think I had trouble with NGC 7822 in a 25 ight year Adder

I tried once... no dice. And I might be able to find a way around. Again, thats not really the problem Im having with this. The issue I take is that you can see a cube of stars where the density of stars abruptly stops on all sides at a specific point all the way across. Imagine small box with M&Ms inside(the stars. Outside of the box the M&Ms are less in count and are spaced out much more. The cardboard being the literal line between a handful of M&Ms and a small amount...the divider, the line. As someone said, proceedurally generated which created a horrible division of a densily packed area vs less dense (and all the way around).

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There are another two avenues that you haven't considered then - getting in from "above" or "below" the wall.

Jump back home. Sell the data. Upgrade your ship. Laugh at the wall.

Probably going to end up doing that. Might monkey around areas that I can hit within the confines of this accessible cube of systems. Try to find some undiscovered and earth-likes. Maybe do this for the rest of today maybe tommorrow..then turn around for the return trip home (with a stop at mintaka).

 

[Ydiss]

This sounds like a problem with the stellar forge or a display issue, rather than intended design.

 

[the100thmonkey]

(with a stop at mintaka).

Say "hi" to Melody for me.

 

[Kristov]

I hit a spot where literally the distance between stars is no less than 30LY. Its not a line, its a wall going up down and across around the nebulae that I mentioned in the original post, its on three sides of these nebulae (the fourth side is the side that Sol is on so obviously no wall there).

Ok, so you can't jump the gap, it's too far for your ship due to the range. Give me some star names in the area, I'll take a look, but I don't recall any square boxes around the area of space you mentioned, so narrow it down if you could. Again, hitting a 'wall' of stars where there's nothing on the other side for 30+LY range isn't man made, the galaxy does that naturally, the shape is like a pinwheel, there are distinct spokes coming out from the center and they spiral as they extend out toward the rim, and that causes walls to form with wide expanses between them, especially out towards the Rim at the ends of the spokes.

 

[xondk]

Hi,
So I am out exploring just beyond Horsehead Nebula, specifically at Messier 78 Sector CQ-y C 1. I tried to jump to another star that is further out and couldn't...ok, I tried another, and another and I cant. After zooming out, I realized that I have just crossed an 'invisible' wall or a boundary that is meant for ships that can jump 30LY+...and after looking at it further I realized that this boundary is literally in the shape of a cube around horsehead/barnards/orion/etc...

Its as if someone said "Draw a box around this entire area and pack it with stars. Outside of this box, reduce the density of stars by X% and increase the distance between stars by X%". It looks deliberate and not natural.

I have no issues with stars becoming increasingly difficult to reach the further out you go...and/or if at some point I just cant go any further. But looking at the Galaxy map I am witnessing a systematic wall of stars, literally in the form of a wall/straight line, where I can't go any further...the density of stars is drastically reduced beyond this specific point. My problem is that this didn't happen naturally, randomly, and in variable areas of the the surrounding area. It is a wall going straight across that hits a corner, and then turns and makes a wall going around the other side. In the galaxy, in the universe, things like this wouldn't happen systematically, blatantly, and abruptly. It happens over time...some areas maybe you can get around, some you cannot.

Its like you are level 20 in an MMO and when you try to go to the zone next to the one you are currently in, the game says "you need to be level 30 to enter this zone". Thats the developer literally saying "You are not geared enough to be here". This is hugely immersion breaking in E because literally the entire point of exploration is pushing boundaries with what you have.

Still enjoying it, and there are a ton of stars to explore near me but if I wanted to go any further from Sol, I need to end my trip, head back to Sol and upgrade.

Honestly, this kind of dealt a blow for me.

The whole square box thing is annoying as you get deeper yeah, however from my understanding it is a limitation on hardware and similar when generating the background image for each system, all the stars are there, however having to load in all of them and displaying every single one of them would be very very heavy given the enormous amount of stars, that said I think I read somewhere that they are working on making it load better and in a sphere rather then squares, that way it would be nera impossible to see that the stars beyond whatever sphere size they have chosen, and the boxes of stars would be gone.

 

[the100thmonkey]

He's not talking about the skybox.

 

[bitstorm]

This is the sort of thing cesmode is referring to :

Spoiler

Not the real data "strips", the artefacts of the stellar forge building cubes (presumably each from its own seed).

As I say maybe one way to fix it would be to make the sectors smaller around the divisions and seed them so they merge better.

But from a technical point of view I obviously have no idea of how easy that would be, nor how much would need manually fixing this way, this is a whole galaxy were talking about and finding and fixing all such lines might actually be a pretty huge undertaking. Dunno, I guess there are ways you could automate it, but I also wonder about if it's right to just start deleting and adding new stars at this stage.