The Eagle wasn't meant for anything other than a short term stepping stone, and maybe some low Rez's. But look, it's probably a good fighter to improve your piloting skills. I used to take one into conflict zones and actually did pretty well as long as I could stay out of the way of enemy lasers.
Small Combat Ship Concerns
- Thread starter Kylby36
- Start date
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Isn't the Eagle centuries older? By the way, this cheap Eagle is a royal PITA, with 20% more hull than a stock Corvette: http://coriolis.io/outfit/eagle/32A3A3A1D2A2A2C2929290029272525.Iw1-EA==.IwBhrSrI?bn=hull
Isn't the Eagle centuries older? By the way, this cheap Eagle is a royal PITA, with 20% more hull than a stock Corvette: http://coriolis.io/outfit/eagle/32A3A3A1D2A2A2C2929290029272525.Iw1-EA==.IwBhrSrI?bn=hull
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I've been flying my Cobra MK III for months and have fought quite a few players in larger ships. I've got 1 insurance claim and that was in a stock Imperial Courier. It's all player skill. No ship is completely ineffective If you got the skill. Case in point, I saw my sister take down a Vulture in a Type 7. Granted that was an NPC but the fact she could in something that's by no means a combat ship is really something.
You should check out Isinona on youtube. He's been playing this game since the early beta and has only one video of a ship bigger that a Cobra in combat.
This is a joke right? Why should small ships 1v1 be able to do anything but annoy a bigger ship? The bigger ships are more concerned with other bigger ships then your tiny little fighter.
Attempts at 'balance' of this type will only destroy what little pilot progression there is.
Attempts at 'balance' of this type will only destroy what little pilot progression there is.
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I get where the OP coming from actually but I think the biggest thing is the OP just hasn't put the time in to understand the smaller ships. If you do it right a Cobra could easily tank a Conda. just that's time to learn how is all.
The Eagle is competitive against more expensive ships, especially if they're NPCs. I can comfortably take out a DB Explorer in an Eagle, have taken out low ranked Couriers. I don't enjoy the length of time it takes for my pea shooters to finish the job but it happens. I wouldn't want to try it with an Anaconda but that seems reasonable to me.
I do think that ships should be a bit more asymmetrically balanced, and that smaller ships should serve niche roles that make them at least somewhat viable against larger ships.
The current pilot progression completely disregards any type of skill a pilot could potentially have. There needs to be balance so that when you actually have a big ship, it takes skill to pilot it.
But either way, I'm not saying a small fighter (I'm saying this for the 15th time) should be able to completely destroy a big ship no problem. I'm saying that a small fighter should without a doubt be quicker/more agile than a python or a fer-de-lance. They are already more agile but it doesn't matter, because a big ship can just boost away and spin around and shoot it while you're struggling to catch up to stay out of its fire. At that point there is no point for maneuverability when all it comes down to is firepower.
All I'm saying is is that they should be much faster. Nothing else. Everything is fine. They just need a lot more speed.
If someone wants to fly an eagle all their life, they should be able to if they are a good enough pilot. This is what balance means. For larger ships you must be a godly pilot to kill it with an eagle. I'm not seeing why raising the speed of small fighter ships would be such a problem. (Keep the vulture the same though)
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Lets use a fighter jet analogy.
The eagle is like a Mig-15. Huge numbers built and very successful for its time. It is now outdated and relatively cheap.
The FDL is the F-22 Raptor. Very expensive to build and not made have been made. In terms of combat performance, it is one of the best.
So please explain why a Mig-15 that has been around for 60 years should be able to take on the latest and greatest Military Combat Aircraft
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So what about an instance where the big ship is targeting the eagle/viper? Just because they're a lower tier ship it automatically means they HAVE to be destroyed?
Small fighters need more speed. It's too easy for a big ship to just boost away, spin around and shoot. Their boost speed is somehow faster than the Eagle.
Yeah but I was just using the Cobra as an example. The Viper's better fit in a fight than the Cobra in the right hands. In theory the Eagle could probably work too since it's so maneuverable it cold avoid being hit entirely. I should try that now that I'm thinking about it.
Because there haven't been any new military technologies since the Eagles were made according to lore? Yeah new ships, but still the same FSD, same weapons, nothing more than gimballed.
This is a game so it's important that there is balance. Big ships should easily be able to take out small ships, but the small ships should be quick and agile enough to escape if they know how.
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Most players in big ships aren't going to run from a fighter. Plus the Viper is already one of the fastest ships in the game.
The Python is not a quick or agile ship. Typical PvE combat tactics in a python involve flying backwards or using turrets. It is basically a very well armed and armored freight ship.
The FDL is a high end fighter ship. A little bigger than the eagle in the same way that a F-22 is bigger than P-51D mustang, but still a fighter.
The idea of balancing small ships directly against big ships in combat is silly.
However the idea of small ships threatening big ships when equipped correctly is not unusual.
Torpedo Boats vs Battleships which then resulted in the development of the Torpedo Boat Destroyer.
While we have some weapons for this job (torpedoes in fact) they don't seem to be widely employed.
The issue is that the game is primarily balanced around what a single pilot can do. A big ship allows a single human pilot to do much more.
Letting us hire NPC wingmen to let us fighter swarm bigger targets would be a great addition allowing us to see that quantity has it's own quality.
Additionally balancing could be done in other places than direct firepower/durability.
Small ships could have much smaller sensor signature for the same heat level. Thus stealth recon/smuggling missions would be better done in small ships.
If racing was a more widely acknowledged profession then the speed/agility of small ships clearly makes them more suited.
p.s. The Eagle series does need a bit of love. More speed for the Eagle and some better agility for the iEagle pls.
CMDR CTCParadox
However the idea of small ships threatening big ships when equipped correctly is not unusual.
Torpedo Boats vs Battleships which then resulted in the development of the Torpedo Boat Destroyer.
While we have some weapons for this job (torpedoes in fact) they don't seem to be widely employed.
The issue is that the game is primarily balanced around what a single pilot can do. A big ship allows a single human pilot to do much more.
Letting us hire NPC wingmen to let us fighter swarm bigger targets would be a great addition allowing us to see that quantity has it's own quality.
Additionally balancing could be done in other places than direct firepower/durability.
Small ships could have much smaller sensor signature for the same heat level. Thus stealth recon/smuggling missions would be better done in small ships.
If racing was a more widely acknowledged profession then the speed/agility of small ships clearly makes them more suited.
p.s. The Eagle series does need a bit of love. More speed for the Eagle and some better agility for the iEagle pls.
CMDR CTCParadox
Better designs do not require new technologies. Gradual improvement is enough to bring about huge changes. You need only look at real life examples with firearms and internal combustion engines to see what kind of progress decades of small incremental improvements can yield.
And small ships can escape if the pilot is not trying to be a hero.
Just the other day I interdicted an Eagle in my FDL. He had a 70K bounty on him and he could have fled while I was scanning him for additional bounties. I dont carry a wake scanner so he could have jumped to any other system and I wouldnt be able to follow. He chose to stay, fight, and die.
Oh man guys... You are really irritating me... I'm not saying to balance the combat of the eagles/vipers... I'm saying that if they are fighters, medium/large size ships should not be able to catch up to them. It's just unbalanced for those who just like to play the eagle for the looks, or those who can't afford more because they're bad. It only makes sense that they would be faster than a big bulky ship.
If you want the eagle to threaten bigger ships, then equip it with rail guns. Believe me you will not be ignored for long with rail guns, unlike when you are running pulse lasers.
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Depends on the big ship. If the big ship is mostly composed of engines (looking at you Clipper) then nothing is stopping the big ship from being fast. On the other hand, most bigger ships are already a lot slower than the Eagle. Conda and Corvette need to boost to fly at what is a normal speed for the Eagle. If you like the Eagle, I would give the imperial courier a try. It is like a more modern eagle with bigger weapons, shields, better speed, and similar feel
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Depends on the big ship. If the big ship is mostly composed of engines (looking at you Clipper) then nothing is stopping the big ship from being fast. On the other hand, most bigger ships are already a lot slower than the Eagle. Conda and Corvette need to boost to fly at what is a normal speed for the Eagle. If you like the Eagle, I would give the imperial courier a try. It is like a more modern eagle with bigger weapons, shields, better speed, and similar feel