Please don't neglect mechanics for everyone by focusing on pure multiplayer content!

[Luniticisi]

As a good few people have said here already, Multi-crew does look very much like a gimmick, something that people will try and then it'll be forgotten about , much like the way CQC is going now (I can't see adding more maps and play-modes actually holding peoples interest for very long).

So in the long run (and this is just my opinion) Creating and developing CQC was wasted dev time, although I may change my tune when the assets from it are put in the game proper.

And this is the direction I see Multi-crew heading - people will try it out (I probably won't, I have only winged up twice for a total of about 2 mins) and then it'll get old and die ... possibly meaning more wasted dev time on a "flash in the pan" game mechanic.

But really who knows .. FD could well have something up their collective sleeve and surprise us .. (But after CG's, PP, Wings and CQC It is clear that the statement about ALL modes would be shown the same love, wasn't exactly true)

Again all just My opinion.

 

[Zeta Legion]

The strange thing to me is, if I am reading it right the issue is not that FD do not want to have npcs in there doing each role but because it is too hard to do.

And yet historically normally devs say it is the MP side which is hard to get right with even the lowest budget games having fairly usable npcs in there.

To be honest from the get go i had an inkling that the mp stuff may have been a bit lumpy and took a while to get right esp the competitive stuff.... But I never for one second ever considered the solo npc content would have been a problem

The possibility that FD simply can't handle DEVELOPING crew AI, something that should be a thuddingly obvious inclusion in a space sim with 100+ meter long ships with multiple decks and at least eight (count em on the Anaconda) escape hatches is frankly terrifying to countenance.

I mean, really? Why MINIMIZE individual participation by dumping multiple people on the same ship, instead of MAXIMIZING it by giving one player more to manage, on the battlefield and off?

DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

 

[Arubeto]

The possibility that FD simply can't handle DEVELOPING crew AI, something that should be a thuddingly obvious inclusion in a space sim with 100+ meter long ships with multiple decks and at least eight (count em on the Anaconda) escape hatches is frankly terrifying to countenance.

I mean, really? Why MINIMIZE individual participation by dumping multiple people on the same ship, instead of MAXIMIZING it by giving one player more to manage, on the battlefield and off?

DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Yup, thought the same. When people are complaining they don't have enough to do in their cockpits, distributing what little tasks they do have among multiple people doesn't sound like such a good idea.

On the other hand, I do believe FD will come up with some additional things the individual crew members will be able to do to make the individual roles more interesting.

But even then I doubt other players will find acting as "engineer" over extended periods of time more fulfilling then flying their own ships.

NPCs on the other hand wouldn't mind...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yup, thought the same. When people are complaining they don't have enough to do in their cockpits, distributing what little tasks they do have among multiple people doesn't sound like such a good idea.

On the other hand, I do believe FD will come up with some additional things the individual crew members will be able to do to make the individual roles more interesting.

But even then I doubt other players will find acting as "engineer" over extended periods of time more fulfilling then flying their own ships.

NPCs on the other hand wouldn't mind...

Indeed the way I see it npcs with their own skills and abilities along with them being mortal adds so much to the game and it it modemagnostic. It benefits everyone multiplayer and single players. It will also allow missions to get new crew and all sorts of rich depth . suddenly I would be happy to do loads ofmpoorly paid missions possibly in weaker ships if it means after a few hrs it meant I gained the loyalty of an elite turret gunner who may then offer to work for me.

As it stands right now multicrew is just like wings and cqc ... Content for MP only with nothing for the loners... Such a shame esp when FD themselves listed is full blown detail how they wanted it to be still viewable in the design archives

 

[Kristov]

This community is one funny beast...

We've got the PvP crowd stating that this game is designed for PvP, it's what the game is ALL about.
We've got the PvE crowd screaming that no more multiplayer content should be developed or added, it's a total waste, no one plays with others, least of all ME(the poster)!

Both crowds are so wrong that it's not even funny anymore. This is a PvE game from the ground up, PvP is simply allowed to happen, it's not designed for or catered to. Multiplayer is what this game is SUPPOSED to be about, with some nods giving to the FACT that this game is advertised as an online multiplayer game and that's it. Wings, ever been in one? I can tell a lot of you in this thread haven't, you got no clue how much of a CharlieFrank Wings can be. We can join up with 3 other people for a Wing of 4 total ships, that's it. The NPCs will come at you Wings of 8, we're limited to 4. Instancing, P2P connections, yeah, FD has SO catered to the multiplayer crowd, you poor poor PvE only players.

Outside of Wings and CQC, NONE of the content added to this game is aimed at multiplayer, not a single bit of it. Horizons, you think THAT is multiplayer content? Whatever you are smoking/drinking/injecting/snorting, it's time you stopped, seriously, you've had WAY too much if that's what you think. I can blitz a surface base all by my lonesome without any trouble at all, and on top of it being easy, I make MORE credits doing it all by my lonesome! Oh yeah, that's really catering to the multiplayer crowd!

Multicrew, so many of you despise it, yet you demand it with NPCs only at the same time. You decry it's usefulness yet demand you get it with NPCs, that makes no damn sense at all. If it's so useless for players, why would it be any better with NPCs? Funny thing, as already mentioned, Star Trek Online, during the early alpha testing, we were asking for multicrew functionality, we kept asking for it through the closed beta and into the open beta and then when it went Live we kept asking for it. And it wasn't just a small minority group asking for it, it was universally wanted. It's STAR TREK for pity's sake, which has always been about the crew working together, and that's what we wanted. We had NPC crew members, that was it, and they were....lacking to put it mildly. I had friends who didn't like FLYING the ships but they did enjoy firing the guns or playing with the engineering controls or sensors, they really wanted to do THAT and only that, just as they did when RPing Star Trek. They weren't happy that we couldn't all get together on a single ship and fly it as a crew. My best friend, the best man at my wedding, one of the biggest Star Trek fans in the world(seriously, he can tell you show and episode based on the opening line of dialog, tell you when it was filmed, who was in it, who wrote it, directed it, did the costumes, catered it..no kidding, who did the catering), he was SO excited when he found out I was a closed alpha tester. He was ready to actually build a computer good enough to run the game until I told him, no crewing up and running a ship together. He wrote a nasty letter to Cryptic over that, wrote letters to Paramount and various Star Trek cast members for the various shows, everyone and anyone he could think of, to get that added to the game. It wasn't done, so he never built a new computer, never got the game, watched me play a few times and was very upset that it was so solo player oriented, no teamwork, no crew working together, the very heart of Star Trek. They lost a LOT of players from the alpha and beta testing phases over that, entire groups of multiple thousands of people who boycotted the game over this silly little feature you folks say isn't needed and is pointless, no fun and useless.

Star Citizen, so many of the ships in that game are designed for multiple players to use them at once, 1 person flying, someone else controlling the fixed weapons, others controlling the turrets, someone else taking care of the shields, repairs, engineering, and then there's the boarding/counterboarding aspects on top of that. And it's a HUGE selling point for Star Citizen. There's huge organizations in Star Citizen where the majority of the members won't fly their own ships, they'll be crew members on someone else's ship, they have interesting in FLYING, they want to man the guns, the engineering console, the sensors, boarding party, that's it, flying holds no interest for them at all. Same as with Star Trek Online, only CIG listened, CIG is making all that stuff happen, and it's getting them more and more money every single day.

Yeah, multicrew is silly, boring, useless...to you folks who are looking for a single player only experience and that's it. Thing is, this IS an online multiplayer game, and there are lots of folks who would love to play, but they have no interest in flying a ship, they want to be ON one, but they'd rather not fly it. Multicrew allows them that, they can sit in that second chair or the engineering station or the sensor station, they can man the guns, or just go along for the ride for the companionship and RP options.

Oh, and turrets on a multicrew ship, they'd be controlled directly by the PLAYERS manning them, as opposed to the ship's computer controlling them, so chaff wouldn't effect them at all. THAT is why a multicrew Anaconda is like having multiple ships in one, the ship's computer isn't running everything for you, other players are, and unlike the ship's computer, they aren't fooled by chaff, they can turn off modules you don't need in combat, prioritize repairs while in combat, all while the person in the 1st chair takes care of flying the ship, keeping the enemy where his gunners can hit it and avoiding getting hit.

I've played games that allowed this, I've had complete strangers in my B17 in BF1942 and they were able to keep enemy 109s off my tail as I lined up for a bombing run. I've had them in my APCs in BF1942 and BF:Vietnam and BF2/2142, and they kept that APC going a lot longer than I'd have been able to by myself, same with tanks, 2 seater aircraft, attack choppers, transport choppers and even jeeps. Unlike most of you in this thread, there's a huge amount of online gamers who ENJOY playing with others in a game, they will work together without having to be in the same clan/team/unit, they just enjoy the teamwork that multiplayer games offer.

My grandson and I were really looking forward to the multicrew, he's not as good as I am with the flight mechanics but he's damned good at shooting stuff, better reflexes than grandpa has these days, so we'd planned on having a lot of fun, me in the 1st seat, him in the 2nd seat. Grandpa sets the course and keeps the bogeys lined up, grandson takes em down. And since I can have 4 or more SRVs on my Python, we'd set down and go have some races, or work together to assault a base, one in the SRV the other in the ship. Get my son in law in the mix and we'd have 2 SRVs and my ship attacking at once. I'd outfit my ship with all turrets so he could control them and have the best fields of fire possible, but none of you seem to see how that will work. That's what the comment about a single ship with 4 players in it being as good as wing means...try checking out the games that allow this, you'll understand...maybe.

 

[Guard_Gnome]

Winging up with random people is one thing, you still get to keep your autonomy. But getting in someone else's ship while they fly? That's a whole different level of commitment. The only way I (and I imagine most other players like me) would get to experience multi-crew is with friends, and the simple fact is that everyone I know has already quit playing because the game is empty and boring. Looks like another gimmicky "feature" added by FDev expressly in the interest of making interesting looking game trailers. GG FD.

 

[Zeta Legion]

This community is one funny beast...

We've got the PvP crowd stating that this game is designed for PvP, it's what the game is ALL about.
We've got the PvE crowd screaming that no more multiplayer content should be developed or added, it's a total waste, no one plays with others, least of all ME(the poster)!

Both crowds are so wrong that it's not even funny anymore. This is a PvE game from the ground up, PvP is simply allowed to happen, it's not designed for or catered to. Multiplayer is what this game is SUPPOSED to be about, with some nods giving to the FACT that this game is advertised as an online multiplayer game and that's it. Wings, ever been in one? I can tell a lot of you in this thread haven't, you got no clue how much of a CharlieFrank Wings can be. We can join up with 3 other people for a Wing of 4 total ships, that's it. The NPCs will come at you Wings of 8, we're limited to 4. Instancing, P2P connections, yeah, FD has SO catered to the multiplayer crowd, you poor poor PvE only players.

Outside of Wings and CQC, NONE of the content added to this game is aimed at multiplayer, not a single bit of it. Horizons, you think THAT is multiplayer content? Whatever you are smoking/drinking/injecting/snorting, it's time you stopped, seriously, you've had WAY too much if that's what you think. I can blitz a surface base all by my lonesome without any trouble at all, and on top of it being easy, I make MORE credits doing it all by my lonesome! Oh yeah, that's really catering to the multiplayer crowd!

Multicrew, so many of you despise it, yet you demand it with NPCs only at the same time. You decry it's usefulness yet demand you get it with NPCs, that makes no damn sense at all. If it's so useless for players, why would it be any better with NPCs? Funny thing, as already mentioned, Star Trek Online, during the early alpha testing, we were asking for multicrew functionality, we kept asking for it through the closed beta and into the open beta and then when it went Live we kept asking for it. And it wasn't just a small minority group asking for it, it was universally wanted. It's STAR TREK for pity's sake, which has always been about the crew working together, and that's what we wanted. We had NPC crew members, that was it, and they were....lacking to put it mildly. I had friends who didn't like FLYING the ships but they did enjoy firing the guns or playing with the engineering controls or sensors, they really wanted to do THAT and only that, just as they did when RPing Star Trek. They weren't happy that we couldn't all get together on a single ship and fly it as a crew. My best friend, the best man at my wedding, one of the biggest Star Trek fans in the world(seriously, he can tell you show and episode based on the opening line of dialog, tell you when it was filmed, who was in it, who wrote it, directed it, did the costumes, catered it..no kidding, who did the catering), he was SO excited when he found out I was a closed alpha tester. He was ready to actually build a computer good enough to run the game until I told him, no crewing up and running a ship together. He wrote a nasty letter to Cryptic over that, wrote letters to Paramount and various Star Trek cast members for the various shows, everyone and anyone he could think of, to get that added to the game. It wasn't done, so he never built a new computer, never got the game, watched me play a few times and was very upset that it was so solo player oriented, no teamwork, no crew working together, the very heart of Star Trek. They lost a LOT of players from the alpha and beta testing phases over that, entire groups of multiple thousands of people who boycotted the game over this silly little feature you folks say isn't needed and is pointless, no fun and useless.

Star Citizen, so many of the ships in that game are designed for multiple players to use them at once, 1 person flying, someone else controlling the fixed weapons, others controlling the turrets, someone else taking care of the shields, repairs, engineering, and then there's the boarding/counterboarding aspects on top of that. And it's a HUGE selling point for Star Citizen. There's huge organizations in Star Citizen where the majority of the members won't fly their own ships, they'll be crew members on someone else's ship, they have interesting in FLYING, they want to man the guns, the engineering console, the sensors, boarding party, that's it, flying holds no interest for them at all. Same as with Star Trek Online, only CIG listened, CIG is making all that stuff happen, and it's getting them more and more money every single day.

Yeah, multicrew is silly, boring, useless...to you folks who are looking for a single player only experience and that's it. Thing is, this IS an online multiplayer game, and there are lots of folks who would love to play, but they have no interest in flying a ship, they want to be ON one, but they'd rather not fly it. Multicrew allows them that, they can sit in that second chair or the engineering station or the sensor station, they can man the guns, or just go along for the ride for the companionship and RP options.

Oh, and turrets on a multicrew ship, they'd be controlled directly by the PLAYERS manning them, as opposed to the ship's computer controlling them, so chaff wouldn't effect them at all. THAT is why a multicrew Anaconda is like having multiple ships in one, the ship's computer isn't running everything for you, other players are, and unlike the ship's computer, they aren't fooled by chaff, they can turn off modules you don't need in combat, prioritize repairs while in combat, all while the person in the 1st chair takes care of flying the ship, keeping the enemy where his gunners can hit it and avoiding getting hit.

I've played games that allowed this, I've had complete strangers in my B17 in BF1942 and they were able to keep enemy 109s off my tail as I lined up for a bombing run. I've had them in my APCs in BF1942 and BF:Vietnam and BF2/2142, and they kept that APC going a lot longer than I'd have been able to by myself, same with tanks, 2 seater aircraft, attack choppers, transport choppers and even jeeps. Unlike most of you in this thread, there's a huge amount of online gamers who ENJOY playing with others in a game, they will work together without having to be in the same clan/team/unit, they just enjoy the teamwork that multiplayer games offer.

My grandson and I were really looking forward to the multicrew, he's not as good as I am with the flight mechanics but he's damned good at shooting stuff, better reflexes than grandpa has these days, so we'd planned on having a lot of fun, me in the 1st seat, him in the 2nd seat. Grandpa sets the course and keeps the bogeys lined up, grandson takes em down. And since I can have 4 or more SRVs on my Python, we'd set down and go have some races, or work together to assault a base, one in the SRV the other in the ship. Get my son in law in the mix and we'd have 2 SRVs and my ship attacking at once. I'd outfit my ship with all turrets so he could control them and have the best fields of fire possible, but none of you seem to see how that will work. That's what the comment about a single ship with 4 players in it being as good as wing means...try checking out the games that allow this, you'll understand...maybe.

*sigh*

SC doesn't exist yet. There is no proof it will ever see the light of day as CiG have pitched it. They certainly talk a great game but what have they actually presented to you? A bunch of barely-functional modules with zero connectivity and questionable mechanics. Declaring SC the ultimate space sim before it's even been pressed to a disk is pure hyperbole. /rant over.

On Topic:

I really think you aren't considering the difference between multicrew in Battlefield for example and the multicrew as pitched to us by FD. In a game like Battlefield, sessions typically don't last more than an hour at most before it's back to the lobby or quick-match screen waiting to get into another game. Moreover there is usually a limited number of vehicles and a proliferation of players encouraging cooperative vehicle piloting. There is no single-player aspect to worry about either. This makes it easy to jump into a game, grab a vehicle or co-pilot/gunner position, and around until either your vehicle gets destroyed or the game ends. There is no cost associated with getting your vehicle destroyed or being a bad gunner aside from maybe being screamed at by the 12 year old behind the other computer screen. Gameplay is typically quick and visceral with very little down-time keeping things interesting.

Compare that to ED. An individual session can last for many hours, and with the exception of CZ or a good spawn at a RES there is a LOT of down-time where you are doing nothing but jumping from system to system, docking with stations, or god forbid refreshing the bulletin board so you can actually get enough missions to make a reasonable profit (another issue for another time). Horizons offers the stronghold assaults that could conceivably be taken on by a multi-crew using a combined arms approach but you could just as easily all be piloting your own ships with your own SRV(s) or launch-able fighter(s). That is to say, I fail to see how you could keep the rest of your very human crew interested in a multi-crew experience long enough to get anything meaningful done that everybody couldn't have simply used their own ships for. The game just isn't set up well for drop-in-drop-out play.

You also seem to be laboring under the assumption that those of this who are pro-NPC Crew are opposed to any implementation of PC Crew. What most of us are concerned about is not that a multiplayer feature is being added, but the fact that feature is EXCLUSIVE to multiplayer when it could just as well benefit both sides by having NPC Crew with the OPTION for PC Crew. Some of us want the feeling of not piloting a ghost ship, giving orders to or otherwise cooperating with crew without the hassle of setting up a group session specifically to fill up empty chairs on the damn bridge. You want to sit in a turret all day shooting stuff that comes into LoS. Good for you, you're getting what you asked for. Some of us are still waiting.

FD have stated they have no plans to add NPC Crew and I honestly do not understand why. You could bang on about how a group of players should be better than AIs but honestly with how the NPCs work in most games I am not convinced that would ever be an issue. It's more content for everyone and you're stamping on it because it's got an Open mode and by god everybody should be social all the time while ignoring the Solo option.

 

[Kristov]

*sigh*

SC doesn't exist yet. There is no proof it will ever see the light of day as CiG have pitched it. They certainly talk a great game but what have they actually presented to you? A bunch of barely-functional modules with zero connectivity and questionable mechanics. Declaring SC the ultimate space sim before it's even been pressed to a disk is pure hyperbole. /rant over.

On Topic:

I really think you aren't considering the difference between multicrew in Battlefield for example and the multicrew as pitched to us by FD. In a game like Battlefield, sessions typically don't last more than an hour at most before it's back to the lobby or quick-match screen waiting to get into another game. Moreover there is usually a limited number of vehicles and a proliferation of players encouraging cooperative vehicle piloting. There is no single-player aspect to worry about either. This makes it easy to jump into a game, grab a vehicle or co-pilot/gunner position, and around until either your vehicle gets destroyed or the game ends. There is no cost associated with getting your vehicle destroyed or being a bad gunner aside from maybe being screamed at by the 12 year old behind the other computer screen. Gameplay is typically quick and visceral with very little down-time keeping things interesting.

Compare that to ED. An individual session can last for many hours, and with the exception of CZ or a good spawn at a RES there is a LOT of down-time where you are doing nothing but jumping from system to system, docking with stations, or god forbid refreshing the bulletin board so you can actually get enough missions to make a reasonable profit (another issue for another time). Horizons offers the stronghold assaults that could conceivably be taken on by a multi-crew using a combined arms approach but you could just as easily all be piloting your own ships with your own SRV(s) or launch-able fighter(s). That is to say, I fail to see how you could keep the rest of your very human crew interested in a multi-crew experience long enough to get anything meaningful done that everybody couldn't have simply used their own ships for. The game just isn't set up well for drop-in-drop-out play.

You also seem to be laboring under the assumption that those of this who are pro-NPC Crew are opposed to any implementation of PC Crew. What most of us are concerned about is not that a multiplayer feature is being added, but the fact that feature is EXCLUSIVE to multiplayer when it could just as well benefit both sides by having NPC Crew with the OPTION for PC Crew. Some of us want the feeling of not piloting a ghost ship, giving orders to or otherwise cooperating with crew without the hassle of setting up a group session specifically to fill up empty chairs on the damn bridge. You want to sit in a turret all day shooting stuff that comes into LoS. Good for you, you're getting what you asked for. Some of us are still waiting.

FD have stated they have no plans to add NPC Crew and I honestly do not understand why. You could bang on about how a group of players should be better than AIs but honestly with how the NPCs work in most games I am not convinced that would ever be an issue. It's more content for everyone and you're stamping on it because it's got an Open mode and by god everybody should be social all the time while ignoring the Solo option.

Star Citizen is not a pipe dream or scam, I don't get why some people continue to insist it is either. Have you actually downloaded and tried Alpha 2.0 or 2.1 on the PTU? It's not exactly a fantasy, it's happening, and it's getting more exciting all the time, especially since they've gotten the procedural tech for planet creation working and will now be allowing free landing on planets instead of scripted sequences where you can only land in special locations and that's it. Very much like Horizons, you can go anywhere you want. Big change from their previous plan, and there's more coming, so where the negativity comes from is beyond me. And I'm not that invested in Star Citizen, no blinders here, I was not a fan of the scripted planet landings at all for example, one of the big downsides to the game for me. Still not a big fan of the small universe it will have, I'm an explorer, can't really do in SC what I do in Elite, but the OTHER aspects, the multiplayer and group stuff CIG is doing, that I'm a huge fan of.

NPC crew members not being a priority, simple to understand. There's no such thing as NPC AI, it doesn't exist, never has, no one's created an AI yet and some of the best minds on the planet have been working on that for a long time now. NPCs in video games follow scripts, that's it, how varied and in depth those scripts are is what determines how realistic they are. To date, they all suck, without exception, even the ones I've created myself sucked, due to the simple fact that as soon as you leave the script, they get lost, NPCs can't ad lib at all. The NPCs in this game, not the best I've seen, I know what all has to be taken into account and I'm actually impressed by the NPC functionality in Elite Dangerous. They do have their issues though, threatening to boil me up constantly while never moving or taking a shot, never taking a shot after they open fire once, sitting and spinning without ever firing, ramming into the sides of stations or asteroids or other ships, the list goes on and on. The forums have so many complaints about the NPCs and how stupid they are. And so many of you seem to think it's so easy to make a good NPC, one capable and human like...not a single clue among the lot of you evidently, nor have you noticed that the NPCs in this game are so bad that they can't fly their own ships, and you want them to crew YOUR ship?

Hope you don't get dizzy easily, and have plenty of rebuy money, that's all I can say about that.

 

[Eymerich]

Star Citizen is not a pipe dream or scam, I don't get why some people continue to insist it is either. Have you actually downloaded and tried Alpha 2.0 or 2.1 on the PTU? It's not exactly a fantasy, it's happening, and it's getting more exciting all the time, especially since they've gotten the procedural tech for planet creation working and will now be allowing free landing on planets instead of scripted sequences where you can only land in special locations and that's it. Very much like Horizons, you can go anywhere you want. Big change from their previous plan, and there's more coming, so where the negativity comes from is beyond me. And I'm not that invested in Star Citizen, no blinders here, I was not a fan of the scripted planet landings at all for example, one of the big downsides to the game for me. Still not a big fan of the small universe it will have, I'm an explorer, can't really do in SC what I do in Elite, but the OTHER aspects, the multiplayer and group stuff CIG is doing, that I'm a huge fan of.

NPC crew members not being a priority, simple to understand. There's no such thing as NPC AI, it doesn't exist, never has, no one's created an AI yet and some of the best minds on the planet have been working on that for a long time now. NPCs in video games follow scripts, that's it, how varied and in depth those scripts are is what determines how realistic they are. To date, they all suck, without exception, even the ones I've created myself sucked, due to the simple fact that as soon as you leave the script, they get lost, NPCs can't ad lib at all. The NPCs in this game, not the best I've seen, I know what all has to be taken into account and I'm actually impressed by the NPC functionality in Elite Dangerous. They do have their issues though, threatening to boil me up constantly while never moving or taking a shot, never taking a shot after they open fire once, sitting and spinning without ever firing, ramming into the sides of stations or asteroids or other ships, the list goes on and on. The forums have so many complaints about the NPCs and how stupid they are. And so many of you seem to think it's so easy to make a good NPC, one capable and human like...not a single clue among the lot of you evidently, nor have you noticed that the NPCs in this game are so bad that they can't fly their own ships, and you want them to crew YOUR ship?

Hope you don't get dizzy easily, and have plenty of rebuy money, that's all I can say about that.

Well... Ai in a conflict zone wouldn't be an Ai but, after all... it's fun.

And That's It.

(get the point ? )

 

[Zeta Legion]

*snip*

NPC crew members not being a priority, simple to understand. There's no such thing as NPC AI, it doesn't exist, never has, no one's created an AI yet and some of the best minds on the planet have been working on that for a long time now. NPCs in video games follow scripts, that's it, how varied and in depth those scripts are is what determines how realistic they are. To date, they all suck, without exception, even the ones I've created myself sucked, due to the simple fact that as soon as you leave the script, they get lost, NPCs can't ad lib at all. The NPCs in this game, not the best I've seen, I know what all has to be taken into account and I'm actually impressed by the NPC functionality in Elite Dangerous. They do have their issues though, threatening to boil me up constantly while never moving or taking a shot, never taking a shot after they open fire once, sitting and spinning without ever firing, ramming into the sides of stations or asteroids or other ships, the list goes on and on. The forums have so many complaints about the NPCs and how stupid they are. And so many of you seem to think it's so easy to make a good NPC, one capable and human like...not a single clue among the lot of you evidently, nor have you noticed that the NPCs in this game are so bad that they can't fly their own ships, and you want them to crew YOUR ship?

Hope you don't get dizzy easily, and have plenty of rebuy money, that's all I can say about that.

First off, you and I both know very well that AI in gaming is at this time merely short-hand for scripted programs designed to simulate a character, object, or player. Nor is this discussion about independent pilot AI. They are not flying the ship. This is a straw-man argument and you know it.

Countless games have allowed simulation of a team or squad. Take Dragon Age Origins for example; you can set certain tasks to be performed automatically based on certain criteria, which can be very broad or highly specific for each party member. In addition to these pre-set instructions you can take charge of a given NPC squadmate at any time and issue specific commands without having previously set them up. This same formula has been used in many party-based games both turn-based and action-based and works very well for simulating a group without mandating you handhold each individual character every step of the way while retaining player agency in combat in case the AI gets itself into a mess or your pre-planned instructions fail to apply to the situation.

This same method could work just as well for managing a crew of NPCs. It doesn't seem that hard a concept to grasp and FD can't be expected to simply not add any meaningful NPC based content to the game just because it might be hard to implement. Nor should it be okay to lean on the community to provide meaningful interaction in a game that literally has more worldspaces than players.

 

[Pomerlaw]

This game needs multiplayer interaction so much it hurts. But I don't think multi-crew is the answer. It sounds like Frontier is trying to get it out before Star Citizen... They should concentrate on what they already have, which needs a lot of work.

I may turn on to be wrong on this. I hope I am!

 

[Spudulika]

To be honest, I may well take part in the multi crew. However saying that, ED is a niche game and as such the developers need to listen to the community, clearly just adding multi player content is going to alienate (according to the poll regarding who will use Multi - Crew featues) , 65% of the ED population (assuming that the poll represents a good cross section of the player base).

I play on both the Xbox and the PC, depending on my location and or mood. What does concern me and actually really annoy me is that simple things such as captains log books, history of systems visited etc haven't been added to aid navigation on the XB1 version (and to be honest they would be useful on the PC version, though at least on the PC you can install an add on such as the Trading Tool Extension).

To me its the small features that aren't their despite post after post of people asking for them since, well since beta that worries me for the games future

 

[NextGame]

I will no doubt get a lot of flak for this but -

Wings : Rubbish - hard to manage, no real benefit.
Powerplay : Rubbish - just extra interdictions to avoid while you are "aligned with a faction"
CQC : lol didnt play
Planetary Landings : Rubbish - complete and utter lack of depth. There seems to be absolutely no worthwhile reason to land on a planet and drive around.

Some gameplay depth for solo players would be best addition they could make at this point as immersion is sorely lacking.

 

[Kristov]

First off, you and I both know very well that AI in gaming is at this time merely short-hand for scripted programs designed to simulate a character, object, or player. Nor is this discussion about independent pilot AI. They are not flying the ship. This is a straw-man argument and you know it.

Countless games have allowed simulation of a team or squad. Take Dragon Age Origins for example; you can set certain tasks to be performed automatically based on certain criteria, which can be very broad or highly specific for each party member. In addition to these pre-set instructions you can take charge of a given NPC squadmate at any time and issue specific commands without having previously set them up. This same formula has been used in many party-based games both turn-based and action-based and works very well for simulating a group without mandating you handhold each individual character every step of the way while retaining player agency in combat in case the AI gets itself into a mess or your pre-planned instructions fail to apply to the situation.

This same method could work just as well for managing a crew of NPCs. It doesn't seem that hard a concept to grasp and FD can't be expected to simply not add any meaningful NPC based content to the game just because it might be hard to implement. Nor should it be okay to lean on the community to provide meaningful interaction in a game that literally has more worldspaces than players.

And you neglect to mention that no one has done that in a working fashion in a real time online game, because you can't. Solo games offline or round based online, sure, works great when you can just pause the game anytime you want or the action takes place every X seconds, but you can't do that in a real time online game. Besides, that's not the NPCs doing things, that's YOU taking over and doing things, which you already do without NPCs on your ship. NOT the same thing at all and you know it, who's stuffing what in those clothes here?

And yes, FD can be fully expected to NOT add in features that will require too much time and money to try and develop and would NEVER work properly, it would be idiotic to do otherwise. NPC content that is meaningful does NOT automatically include NPCs manning your ship, it would be NPCs that are persistent, the Tier 2 NPCs that have been talked about, be they reps for the major powers or minor ones, or just the bartender at a station, the local dealer in illegal goods at an outpost or whatever, NPCs you can interact with, get missions from, learn of the game lore from, pick up gossip, whatever. Much more likely, far less costly in time and resources, and they'll work. Putting NPCs on the ship with you, not so much, you simply can NOT script enough possible options for that to be workable, and you can't give the player the time required to jump into the NPC and manually force it to do what they want in a real time game without any pause options. Strawman indeed....*tosses a lit match*

 

[Leo Sagan]

The strange thing to me is, if I am reading it right the issue is not that FD do not want to have npcs in there doing each role but because it is too hard to do.

I suspect this is the reason why we don't have npc ships and SRVs on planets either. While I can understand how tricky AIs programming can be, it is still something a GAME company should do from time to time. I mean, seriously FD, at some point you'll have to create more NPCs ... And smarter than they are now as well.

I know, it's a big shock, I'm sorry to be so harsh but someone has to tell you the truth.

Unbelievable.

 

[Spudulika]

And you neglect to mention that no one has done that in a working fashion in a real time online game, because you can't. Solo games offline or round based online, sure, works great when you can just pause the game anytime you want or the action takes place every X seconds, but you can't do that in a real time online game. Besides, that's not the NPCs doing things, that's YOU taking over and doing things, which you already do without NPCs on your ship. NOT the same thing at all and you know it, who's stuffing what in those clothes here?

And yes, FD can be fully expected to NOT add in features that will require too much time and money to try and develop and would NEVER work properly, it would be idiotic to do otherwise. NPC content that is meaningful does NOT automatically include NPCs manning your ship, it would be NPCs that are persistent, the Tier 2 NPCs that have been talked about, be they reps for the major powers or minor ones, or just the bartender at a station, the local dealer in illegal goods at an outpost or whatever, NPCs you can interact with, get missions from, learn of the game lore from, pick up gossip, whatever. Much more likely, far less costly in time and resources, and they'll work. Putting NPCs on the ship with you, not so much, you simply can NOT script enough possible options for that to be workable, and you can't give the player the time required to jump into the NPC and manually force it to do what they want in a real time game without any pause options. Strawman indeed....*tosses a lit match*

Err really? NWN Online, Guild Wars, Star Trek Online, SWTOR ?

 

[rcdcce]

Even if you're a total solo'er I think its hard to deny that adding Wings was a valid game decision, even if its not perfect. I occasionally Wing up with 1 friend but that's about it. I'm glad it exists and even if I didn't at all I would be glad others had it. Multi crew I agree NPC's would help as it seems a much more niche play style than Wings. In the end its just another case of features that one aspect of the community couldn't care less about but others must have. ED's only fault is the variety of way's it can be played and this will no doubt continue to occur.

 

[almostpilot]

I think no one is denying that wings was a good addition to the game. What are citing is that should already have been implemented wings with NPC's and not only with real players as it is now. I think that the same is valid for multicrew.


But what bothers me most is the FD does not explain why until today has not improved the NPC in the game.

 

[Kristov]

Err really? DD Online, Guild Wars, Star Trek Online, SWTOR ?

Have you not read what I said, real time, not round based games like every single one of the ones you mentioned. I've played all of those, hell I turned down the beta invites for DDO because I wasn't fond of the Eberron setting they used, but I got it on release day because, well, it was the ONLY D&D game out, and it was actually a blast back then. 12 deaths before I got my first character, a Wizard, through the starter area. Not too bad, most people died 16 or more times. That's the original from years before it went F2P by the way, where even a Barbarian was likely to die on that starter area, it was SO good...*sigh*...then it went downhill, they LCD'd it so that any moron could play it. I understand why, the game was failing as it was, not enough of us that like difficult games, and there was no solo options in DDO originally, you entered a quest alone, you'd better be damned good or you were dead, no two ways about it, they didn't scale to your party size originally, Normal/Hard/Elite was the only scaling. Yeah, no, try finding me some real time online multiplayer games with functional NPCs that do what we'd need done as members of your ship crew. Those games, not even real time, and none of the NPCs you have with you do anything even half that complicated.

 

[Spudulika]

Have you not read what I said, real time, not round based games like every single one of the ones you mentioned. I've played all of those, hell I turned down the beta invites for DDO because I wasn't fond of the Eberron setting they used, but I got it on release day because, well, it was the ONLY D&D game out, and it was actually a blast back then. 12 deaths before I got my first character, a Wizard, through the starter area. Not too bad, most people died 16 or more times. That's the original from years before it went F2P by the way, where even a Barbarian was likely to die on that starter area, it was SO good...*sigh*...then it went downhill, they LCD'd it so that any moron could play it. I understand why, the game was failing as it was, not enough of us that like difficult games, and there was no solo options in DDO originally, you entered a quest alone, you'd better be damned good or you were dead, no two ways about it, they didn't scale to your party size originally, Normal/Hard/Elite was the only scaling. Yeah, no, try finding me some real time online multiplayer games with functional NPCs that do what we'd need done as members of your ship crew. Those games, not even real time, and none of the NPCs you have with you do anything even half that complicated.

DD Online was incorrect on my part, I meant NWN Online. Do you know what a round based game is? In all of the games I mentioned, your NPC's can and do function independently of you, they don't just stand their waiting for you to issue a command, although saying that, you can override their default behaviour by queing actions for them in some cases (or change their default behaviour, to a limited extent).

I'm not sure what the roles would be but the fact is that the AI script is already in the game, ie NPC's. They seem to be able to do everything we as pilots can do in our ships already.