The core gameplay is boring

[Colonel Kenney]

The core of Diablo is just to kill monsters over and over again, collect items and level up so you can simply repeat it all over again.
The core of angry birds is to fling your birds at stuff over and over again in slightly different ways.
The core of Counterstrike is just to pew-pew at other players over and over again.

And yet, each is (or was) a seriously addictive game that is/was very popular.

Most games at their core are fairly basic and repetitive.

At least with ED you are not fixed into doing a single type of task repetitively. You are free to chop and change as much as you like, and when that gets a little tiring, you can always go and do some pew-pew in CQC if that is your thing.

Wow.. you are comparing ED to Angry Birds? Thats very very sad. That is something a kid will play on their phone or ipod while waiting in a Dr's appointment or something like that. You also sort of defeated yourself by even trying to make a comparison. Angry birds has a vast number of different unique challenges. ED has only repetitious challenges with the same outcomes. Angry birds has goals... ED really does not other than to continue to repeat yourself over and over until you raise your dollar figure or your rep a percentage. Angry birds came up with a good fun formula that had infinite variety. ED has the core in place but not the infinite variety yet. I mean its there but there is no way to interact with it.

Diablo was indeed popular and it was fun for its day for a while but then it got old and boring once you learned all you could possibly do. BUT it also had an infinite variety of loot and all sorts of other randomly generated stuff. It was fun to explore the dungeons and it had a good story. ED doesn't have that nor does it have anything that engages you. It was a boring clickfest for sure once you cleared it, why bother after that for sure. But it was fun when you went through it.

Counterstrike is a competitive "sporting" event. That is apples and oranges. That is why they tried to make that arena in this game nobody plays. There is a trend going toward online sporting games like rocket league, dota etc. Apples and oranges.

Literally your argument has failed. I get where you are trying to come from though. You CAN make repetition FUN for sure if you do it right. ED has not.

 

[Ignition]

While this has lots of merit, the personality of the player plays a role as well. Some people are passive and want to be lead by the hand while others prefer actively striking out on their own. I'm the latter. I won't sit in a station waiting for the perfect mission. If I see nothing I want to do, I'll pick a random system / station and go there. More often than not I'll get distracted on the way by something and voom, off I go in a different (and often unexpected) direction.

Other players want to press 1 button to shoot an asteroid.
Other players want to press 1 button to explore.
Other players want to press 1 button to jump to the next system to deliver their cargo.

And me, I want complexity in what I do, nothing more. No more 1 button gameplay.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

don't quote a tiny part of the phrase please.

And answer the whole paragraph. thaks.

Oh lighten up

I did call you a wise man.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

I've linked the interview with Mr. Braben where it was called "open world" at least twice, if not three times now.
No idea where the "sandbox" label comes from. Probably from Steam? Where basically everything is a sandbox and the goat simulator recieves highly favorable reviews.

The issue is "sanbox" was heavily redefined officially by the industry. You can basically now slap "sandbox" on every game also being an open world game. Games like TES 3: Morrorwind were never called a "Sandbox". But they nowdays furfill the definition. However Elite is officially stamped wiht the "infinite freedom" stamp. and this is not rue by how its implemented. Too many game mechanics do actually force a lot of limits onto you. it would need to be a true sandbox to be infinite, but therefore building sandcastels, or at least stations is what would be needed. X is a sandbox with infinite freedom. Eveochron is. Taking those 3 titles, Elite is the most "freedomeless" one.

But the first sentence of Elite's page is "rich gameplay". Now we could argue about what "rich" means in this context, but its surely not very rich in it. Its below what other gams already did, far below. So how would we define the other games when Elite in it's current level is already "rich"

then

, which each also contain literally hundreds of tweaks and new features large and small

that season 2 part still coming with horizons must be huge, because I don't see those hundrets of tweaks and new featurs in Horizons. Unless every planet you can land on is a called a feature on it's own.

Each 1:1 scale world offers incredible vistas and countless gameplay opportunities

those opportuntities, countless? someone must have a very low range of vlaues if he hits "countless" with what horizons is going to offer. Unless of course every planet in their absolutely repeatable patterns counts as an own oportunity.

There is just a load of things in an exaggerated description of advertising this game will not be able to furfill if the current way of development will be continued.

The epic scale combined with the finest details make this the largest designed playspace in video game history.

not true, playspace is bigger in some other games, simply due to how jumps are system 2 system wise in Elite.

Elite Dangerous is all based on 'hard science', so the composition of the galaxy itself, the way ships fly, SRVs drive, their look, their technology, the different societies, is all plausible; its what we believe it will be in the 34th century.

Wow, next time the fanboys come up with "its a game" argument when we ask why its scientifically incorrect we just need to quote this one. Hardly anyone happening in elite is "plausible" by said critera, its 80% made up on the "belieive" but this believe is surely outside "hard science".

There are a lot things the game still advertises itself with, which it does not deliver actually, things why people joined the game and ended up calling it "boring" and "unfinished" because it holds not what it advertised. FD has to work on it to make people believe in them again because selling further seasons will be based on trust towards their advertising. And Planetary landings has yet still "mining" in its advertisement. So I gonan eb curious if it truly gets implemented. Or if shooting random small desposits as we got it yet is the "mining" part.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Other players want to press 1 button to shoot an asteroid.
Other players want to press 1 button to explore.
Other players want to press 1 button to jump to the next system to deliver their cargo.


And me, I want complexity in what I do, nothing more. No more 1 button gameplay.

And now we've come back to the hysteric claims.
Just to make every slight point you might have look totally ridiculous.

Well.. as the old saying goes .. "only boring people get bored".

 

[shadragon]

We should have a board added feature that posts the numbers of hours you have in the game in your sig block automatically.

Agree with OP, the bones of the game are great but they(dev) don't seem to know how to make compelling game play.
- 232 hours played.

Would put most responses in proper perspective. Or at least force people to look up the meaning of the word 'compelling'.

They say a PC Game should give one hour of play for every dollar you spent on it to determine success. I suspect most of the players who do say this got way more than their money's worth.

 

[Cynaqq]

Just to highlight this one single thing. Isn't it too late already?
How would this be any improvement for players having reached the higher ranks already (and there are a lot of them)?
Only thing I can think of is performing a restart.
Not a bad thing necessarely though. Did it once when 1.3 hit and still not regretting it. Although I can't imagine doing that ever again after having invested so many hours in my current cmdr.

It depends on how they will implement it. If they treat the military as semi independent factions which give missions based on rank, people of high rank can start from the top, doing the most rewarding missions right away. I don't think they'll implement a military story line to be completed so the ascension through ranks shouldn't be a problem for the already high rank people.

Also, they can say 'sorry' and reset everyone's military ranks, devise new rewards for ascending in the military, limit it to one military at once and chalk it up to the game being a work on progress, take the momentary heat and wait for things to get better in the long term. All in all, a better system will be better regardless of when it's implemented. They changed the marketing model of the game last week. They are selling the base game to everyone plus expansion season passes now instead of the standalone Horizons version. They changed this despite all the people who already had purchased the game at a higher price. They gave us gold plating for the Asp as a compensation. I personally don't care but a lot of people is up in arms. Does it change the fact that it was a better decision for the long term? I don't think it does.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Lord of the Rings - just a little guy that takes a piece of jewellery to a mountain and a bad guy tries to stop him. No depth.
Space Odyssey - just a bunch of monkeys praying to a stone and a couple of guys going in a space ship to Jupiter.
Ubik - just a story about stuff that falls apart. No depth.
Mass Effect - just a game about a bloke that saves the world. No depth.

Your fault, not Frintier's. There was/is depth to Elite storylines, maybe you just couldn't find it?




But Elite was always that kind of game. It gave you little hints, some tools and the story had to be made up by yourself. I'd even say it's the ESSENCE of this game, and it's every previous iteration. I don't know if you've played the previous games, but if you have - why were you expecting anything else in this iteration? If you haven't - well, I'm sorry Elite hasn't turned up what you were hoping for

That is a highly used and flawed argument as well. This isn't 1984. This is 2016. There were limitations back then. So if we invented a stone wheel we should revere and relish a stone wheel... when 1000 years later we say well we were trying to reproduce the stone wheel for nostalgia with out technology and expect people to use that wheel? No they'd stick to the all weather radials. People are used to a comfortable ride. This is just like you saying - no you should ride on the stone wheels because that is the whole purpose for you to suffer and enjoy it! Don't make it any better or up to par with other successful tires. A smart person would make it look like the old one but ride like a new one and appease the masses instead of forcing everyone to ride a stone wheel.

Elite was dead boring back then too but ii was ground breaking because it allowed us to do something we couldn't before. So it engaged our imaginations. Just because it was limited back then does not mean it has to be limited today. Since then people have figured out the psychology and formula for FUN in games. That is why 99% of the games out there are NOT like elite was. They added to it. So wanting to go back to the old ways is silly and quite frankly childish. Go play oolite or something then? We were pitched a certain game, a DDA was made and they sold us. Then they delivered something different. All people are whining about is basically for them to get back on track. To deliver what they showed in the concept art and other things they used to sell us. Because that is what we thought was fun and why it was all written in the DDA.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It does feel somewhat like a bunch of mini-games bolted togethor with little/no depth and cause and effect...

Thats it in a nutshell..

Cause and effect.. There is none. The BGS sim is still not working properly to this day and there is no conduit for people to interface with it. THE GOOD NEWS is that they are working on that now though. But the BGS is a small part of it.

 

[KaizoMK]

A discussion is more than repeating yourself with an increasing amount of caps, and pointless if you cannot accept that your opinion is just that, an opinion. If you just want to convert people to your 'truth' you're talking to the wrong guy.

That's not an opinion regarding depth, it's an explanation of it. You didn't watch it did you?

 

[Cynaqq]

Other players want to press 1 button to shoot an asteroid.
Other players want to press 1 button to explore.
Other players want to press 1 button to jump to the next system to deliver their cargo.

And me, I want complexity in what I do, nothing more. No more 1 button gameplay.

How many buttons would you like to press to shoot an asteroid?
How many to explore?
How many to jump and deliver cargo?

It doesn't make sense to make these any more complex than pressing a button because the end result is what matters. Making mining require more buttons to extract ores will not make it more engaging. It'll make it more tedious. Give Haz Res sites much better yield to make it attractive for miners, create the synergy between them by expanding on the wings mechanism so escort pilots will have more reason to accompany miners and boom, you have better depth. A higher number of buttons for the same end result will not make it more interesting.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Just because it was limited back then does not mean it has to be limited today. Since then people have figured out the psychology and formula for FUN in games.

They have found stuff that appeals to masses of non-gamers ... "consumers" .. yea.
That's all they've found.


(my often quoted "Delusions of Grandeur" .. kinda what this optimized gameplay leads to ;P )

 

[Ignition]

Sorry, I misunderstood you then. Well, war between Fed and Imp would be a massive story arc that probably had to be incorporated in the game slowly and progressively. It may be coming, you never know...



Just like Elite then.



Clearly then this game isn't for you <shrug>, what else do you want me to say? Why don't you just accept that and come back in a years time to see if something has changed that will drag you back in? It's not like it's going anywhere.

And what do you want Frontier to do about it? They are not able to complete a 10 year project in 1 year, no one is... If you don't understand that, I'm sorry, but you'll only find disappointment in the game for now. Hundreds of thousands of players are clearly having a blast with the game, so I dare to say it;s your problem with how you perceive the game and what you want it to be (which it isn't, perhaps YET).

Constant complaining won't change this so why waste your time on it? There are so many other things you could do instead...

As I said before a change in priorities. Me like other people want to play the game now and not wait years to play it, and by that I'm not saying they finish the game now, just adding complexity in the core of the game. Just to fill the basic activities so at least I could play at least 1 hour of this beautiful looking game. My ED launcher is getting dusty.

 

[CTCParadox]

Just like Elite then.

KSP also requires you to be a rocketry nerd rather than just a space nerd.
What challenges do you set yourself in Elite btw?

CMDR CTCParadox

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

We should have a board added feature that posts the numbers of hours you have in the game in your sig block automatically.



Would put most responses in proper perspective. Or at least force people to look up the meaning of the word 'compelling'.

They say a PC Game should give one hour of play for every dollar you spent on it to determine success. I suspect most of the players who do say this got way more than their money's worth.

Who says that? thats a totally nonsense made up number, lol I can program you a game where oyu have to click a button every minute and win when it reaches 500. Gonna sell you it for 1$. Now you have gamecontent worth 8 hours. and 20 minutes for only 1$. Great game, such success, much wow, dat content/dollar.

Terraria gave me a bad feeling because I got it for 2,50€ and the game is a massive blast worth far more than this. In Elite I have too much grind for too little content. I just play it because a friend also plays it, but once Starbound and Planet explorers may come out wiht the new features/engine. He will have troubles making me start Elite. Simply becuse the expected fun/playtime is too low.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Who says that? thats a totally nonsense made up number, lol I can program you a game where oyu have to click a button every minute and win when it reaches 500. Gonna sell you it for 1$. Now you have gamecontent worth 8 hours. and 20 minutes for only 1$. Great game, such success, much wow, dat content/dollar.

Las Vegas. Billion dollar industry. (most money is not made with Poker or Blackjack, but with slot machines .. guess you never were at a Casino)
Your good right to find all of the people enjoying it to be idiots.

 

[Abomination]

It depends on how they will implement it. If they treat the military as semi independent factions which give missions based on rank, people of high rank can start from the top, doing the most rewarding missions right away. I don't think they'll implement a military story line to be completed so the ascension through ranks shouldn't be a problem for the already high rank people.

Military factions.. hmm.. maybe even with a different branch of mission types.. that would be great. Although: ...

Also, they can say 'sorry' and reset everyone's military ranks, devise new rewards for ascending in the military, limit it to one military at once and chalk it up to the game being a work on progress, take the momentary heat and wait for things to get better in the long term. All in all, a better system will be better regardless of when it's implemented. They changed the marketing model of the game last week.

...heh, now THAT would be something!
Can already see the forums burning, but personally I would welcome such a change with open arms, reset and all.

 

[Ogidch]

Yes I know. Thats why I have hope in it to change.

But the way FD is developing the game is what I don't like. They are focusing in getting the game bigger but they aren't addressing the basic gameplay.

They keep adding new features: Powerplay, CQC and now SRV on planets and the more they add the more they need to fill.
It feels like a really big empty shell instead of a smaller but "more complete" and then it can grow from that.

Totally agree the core game should be more of a focus.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

They have found stuff that appeals to masses of non-gamers ... "consumers" .. yea.
That's all they've found.


(my often quoted "Delusions of Grandeur" .. kinda what this optimized gameplay leads to ;P )

Ok this is touted as a sandbox game.

Lets compare this to other sandbox games.

Minecraft
7 Days to Die
Ark Survival Evolved
Planet Explorers

What do all of those have in common that Elite does not? You can actually build something because they give you tools and materials to actually build.

Arma III - Zeus, mission editors
Any Bethesda game - mods and other tools
DCS - mission editors and tools

Could name any other sandbox type of game out there and you'll see all of them provide SOMETHING for people to use other than their "imagination".

Is isn't a sandbox unless there are some spades and buckets .. if that were the case it would be a beach. If it were a beach you'd be laying around all day bored... like we are right now in ED

 

[Ignition]

We should have a board added feature that posts the numbers of hours you have in the game in your sig block automatically.



Would put most responses in proper perspective. Or at least force people to look up the meaning of the word 'compelling'.

They say a PC Game should give one hour of play for every dollar you spent on it to determine success. I suspect most of the players who do say this got way more than their money's worth.

My stats say that I played 200 hs and you know, 70% of that time was looking at the graphics. The rest was me forced to play the game because I want a good sci fi space ship game since I play games.

So yeah, if the graphics could count as gameplay, this game would be awesome.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

How many buttons would you like to press to shoot an asteroid?
How many to explore?
How many to jump and deliver cargo?

It doesn't make sense to make these any more complex than pressing a button because the end result is what matters.

it depends, as you said, "because the reult is what matters" If I can lazily mine with one button and get decent result it's fine. If I have to press 10 buttons and get the same, its not fine. if I ahve to press 10 buttons but get 15x as much. Then yes I would prefer the 10 button mining. A good designed game finds a well defined balance between effort/reward. Elite simply lacks this. Minign contains too much clicking and microactivities compared to what trading offers in revenue. Not speakign of long range smuggling even, which is kinda far out of balance, yet something that feels rewarding towards the "effort/result" ratio. They missed the opportunaty to make mining interetsing and balanced. And making it a valid choice in the lower tiered ships. Ontop Mining would be an amazign group activity if implemented correctly