Mr. Brookes please confirm this lore change.

Howard o Pato

Howard o Pato
Suddenly everyone is beating down as if it were a bad thing. but let us consider for a second that the galaxy is divided and controlled completely by political factions, and that historical facts can simply be erased to hide a greater political secret yet.
Let's imagine a Thargoid as a vampire,
he's there,
everyone knows what he saw,
but no one will believe the delusions of a pilot with crazy stories.
As well as you can not tell that a vampire (Stephenie Meyer) shines like a diamond in the sun, and everyone knows they die burned like the Blade movie. And no one will really believe that there is truth.
New stories can only be counted if the basic concepts are broken. otherwise everyone will still be putting garlic in their cockpits.
 

Jaiotu

Jaiotu
Howard o Pato said:
Suddenly everyone is beating down as if it were a bad thing. but let us consider for a second that the galaxy is divided and controlled completely by political factions, and that historical facts can simply be erased to hide a greater political secret yet.
Let's imagine a Thargoid as a vampire,
he's there,
everyone knows what he saw,
but no one will believe the delusions of a pilot with crazy stories.
As well as you can not tell that a vampire (Stephenie Meyer) shines like a diamond in the sun, and everyone knows they die burned like the Blade movie. And no one will really believe that there is truth.
New stories can only be counted if the basic concepts are broken. otherwise everyone will still be putting garlic in their cockpits.
Click to expand...

Garlic bobble head incoming!
 

Becks

Becks
Marra said:
Becci, pass me your flamethrower...
Click to expand...

*passes flamethrower*

And if you press here it shoots liquid silber, too ... ideal against vampires ... if they exist.

(I wanna rep you but my tank is empty :( )
 
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SeeZaa

SeeZaa
i think there are 2 perspectives at work here.. the players and the characters..

as players, we have this construct of a lore based not just on what we have played, read, and collectively discussed relating to Elite fiction, but also what we have been encouraged to believe. that does not make it any more cast in stone, or any less open to interpretation, than history.

as characters, we know what we have personally experienced, what we have been led to believe, heard as rumour through 2nd, 3rd, 4th.. (n)th hand stories, or simply just assumed. again not much different to history, or any less debatable.

i quite the idea that things may not be as i once thought.. regardless of the reasoning behind it.. there is nothing to suggest that what we will now learn, will be any less rich, than that which we remember, or thought to be true. i also like the idea of a rumour mill instead of a detailed breakdown of the story as it unfolds, i want to experience the story, not do a walk through.

even if there is very little difference in what the lore has become now, from what we previously knew, it makes sense for a guide on Elite: Dangerous lore, to be a completely accurate guide to Elite: Dangerous lore, and not something totally based on previous iterations and understanding. besides.. having a plot twist, or a change of direction in a sequel, doesn't make the original any less valid, or obsolete, it often provides new perspectives and introduces new ideas, while advancing the story.
 
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Legacy_LuckyLuke

Banned
Legacy_LuckyLuke
I can see pitchforks on the horizon.

Seriously though, as was mentioned in one of the previous threads on this, it's absolutely fine, exciting even, to be told ED is a 'reboot' of the universe, but we need to know what's in or out, as this frames many of the actions and activities we undertake in the game. Or in the least understand when something 'official' might be released. I think some of us were relying on Elite Encounters to give us the lowdown, but the announcement on Dave Hughes site seems to throw that into question now too. Right now I feel as if everything I know is wrong !

I presume the five or so books that were released with ED are the only reliable material now? But even those had many nods to the previous games. I'm confused. :S
 
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Jaiotu

Jaiotu
LuckyLuke said:
I can see pitchforks on the horizon.

Seriously though, as was mentioned in one of the previous threads on this, it's absolutely fine, exciting even, to be told ED is a 'reboot' of the universe, but we need to know what's in or out, as this frames many of the actions and activities we undertake in the game. Or in the least understand when something 'official' might be released. I think some of us were relying on Elite Encounters to give us the lowdown, but the announcement on Dave Hughes site seems to throw that into question now too. Right now I feel as if everything I know is wrong !

I presume the five or so books that were released with ED are the only reliable material now? But even those had many nods to the previous games. I'm confused. :S
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm perfectly fine with a reboot. I just need to know some of the basic history of this new galaxy. As a "light roleplayer" my in-game actions almost always are driven by how I imagine myself reacting in the circumstances. That's why I don't do slavery or other dubious activities. The Alliance's (no longer canonical) actions in FFE are one of the reasons I sided with the Federation. I'm out here to "blaze my own trail" and write my own story ... Only now everthing about that story is in question. Between this and the three days of doing nothing (nothing!) but scouring planets for Polonium I'm having a hard time getting motivated to play.
 

MartinG

M
Fenric said:
In Frontier First Encounters, there were multiple endings depending on player action. One involved the player stealing a vaccine for the mycoid virus from INRA and delivering it to the Thargoids, resulting in them rewarding you with a Thargoid ship, and meetings taking place between them and humanity's scientists. It was my understanding up until now that this was what happened as far as the Elite: Dangerous universe is concerned.

There was another ending where the player is instead given a more potent version of the mycoid virus by INRA and delivers this to the Thargoids instead of a vaccine, meaning no Thargoid ship was gifted to humanity and no exchanges of scientific data occurred.
Click to expand...
For the record, there was also a third ending of the Thargoids plot (although I don’t know how much, if anything, of it was actually implemented in the game): the player could take the Argent’s Quest mission and then simply neglect it, effectively stealing the ship. This was supposed to trigger a series of articles about the player being hunted by another Quest-class ship; should the player decide to return the ship then, there was another set of articles about the ignominious end to Argent’s attempt at contacting Thargoids, and political impossibility of another attempt. (In the dump of all journal entries, this story branch starts with “’QUEST’ STILL MISSING” and ends with “WHITHER THE THARGOIDS NOW?”; the entries alternate between Frontier News, Federal Times, Imperial Herald, RIG, and Universal Scientist.)

Perhaps that ending is to become canon now. From the storytelling point of view, it would make sense: it would effectively have no effect on humanity’s relations with Thargoids, thus leaving all options open.
 
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mossfoot

mossfoot
From a storytelling point of view it kind of has to be this way. Otherwise contact with the Thargoids would have had to be mentioned before this. But the big Ts are more of less myth at this point and clearly nobody has official contact with them.
 
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frostypaw

frostypaw
Unfortunately while that's an appealingly minor change the level of editing that has been done to Encounters implies this runs far far deeper - and that's why we need clarity.

It's great that there are the books, but forcing everyone to read them all to understand the setting of the game is unnecessarily harsh and about face - and much of what they were based on (dark systems?) isn't in the game anyway so we are pretty much in the dark.

Single sentences don't really cut it when there's all this to cover and possibly in doubt
 

madbilly

M
Creative pitchforks spotted, there's some backlash from Formidine Rifters as well.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

LuckyLuke said:
I was equally wondering what this means for the Elite Dangerous Wikia... What a pain to have to go through and edit/redact entries. One might as well start over...
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One might as well change the name of the game to avoid any ambiguity! If you remove backstory, then apart from a few spaceships and superpowers there's not a lot left to connect this to previous games!
 
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madbilly

M
I'm getting really cynical now, so don't read this if you're still feeling even remotely optimistic!
If we ignore everything from previous games, ignore the official novels,the fiction/progress diaries - basically ignore any backstory that isn't in the game itself (Elite: Legacy doesn't count because I had to buy it separately) - then there isn't really any "lore" at all.
Perhaps I'm being unfair.
 

Steph

Steph
Liqua said:
Could someone translate this for me please ?

I haven't read TJames' book and I don't know what Michael is on about.
Click to expand...

I didn't want to spoil the book for those people who are yet to read it. Hopefully there are plenty of readers of the official novels yet to come and it would be wrong of me to give away details.
 

frostypaw

frostypaw
Steph said:
I didn't want to spoil the book for those people who are yet to read it. Hopefully there are plenty of readers of the official novels yet to come and it would be wrong of me to give away details.
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If it's not things that should be public knowledge then fair enough, but this is currently failing a basic foundation of storytelling in an RPG situation - and Elite undeniably has RPG elements.

Their world must make sense. They don't reach over 40 (as a portion at least of cmdrs are) without a single clue about history or without having looked into a slew of mysteries and intrigue over their lives. We would all have learnt about the Empire's expansion, we would all have known about Galcop and at least faintly whether there was a war etc - everyone would have heard about the big historical events, and a lot of the rumour and supposition in a thousand bars in a thousand spaceports

Anything less kinda breaks the rpg element. Sure you can integrate the telling of history alongside a nice neat story, but we don't have that here - people need to be able to start the game on their console or pc and CHOOSE KNOWINGLY what they want to do as they wonder whether to stay independent or go with a major or minor faction - to me this is the important side of character building not a face but the reasoning behind what you do, and currently the only way to find out who is who is out-of-game through five books whose accuracy to game timeline we don't know and a large number of fan made timelines that we're now told are wrong?

We need clarity - we can't take sides in the dark.
 
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Howard o Pato

Howard o Pato
let's talk about something else to talk about the same thing.

In MGS1 the player would have to choose between one of two endings.
1- save Meryl and let otacon die and take the bonus bandana to tie in the head.
2- save otacon and let Meril die and take the bonus stelt camouflage.
long many thought that the canonical end was the final that save Meryl. and the community believed it for a long time, or at least to leave the MGS2 trailer where snake appeared with stelt and talking on the radio with Otacon.
And it made a lot of people angry because they thought the first end had been dropped and that Meryl would be dead.

But in the end, the two endings were valid and snake was a good hero to continue the save game and return to save the other.

Now imagine a world where INRA is unconscionable. and his great influence manipulated many riders to get what he wanted. causing some take a cure and others a more powerful version of the virus, in addition to others who were just lost in space dust, or swallowed by broken quests.
And in the end it is published in the newspapers just what it was supposed that the public could digest, hiding all other truths.

And now someone can prove that everything was a lie and that all went wrong. new truths can surgim in-game or by many other means.
Everything can be true yet. or the whole truth may be lies, told so many times that become truths.
I think we have a new range of endless possibilities ahead of us.
 

madbilly

M
Allen Stroud said:
Lave Radio episode 113 on this went out last night. We'll get the recording up soon.
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Thanks Allen. I've managed to listen to it now, took a long old while to get around to main subject!

You sheepishly admit that you knew pretty much knew about this "lore change" for two years, that's a very well hidden elephant in the room! :x I've no issue with you knowing about it and not telling anyone, I think that's fair enough, as you say it's FD's responsibility to do the "reveals". I'm very surprised that it appears that Drew Wagar and Dave Hughes didn't know about this (at least that's my interpretation from their websites), so maybe a lot of other things have happened since you made the discussion documents. It's Frontier's right to decide what is "official"for ED, but I feel they also have a moral responsibility to respect other people's efforts, i.e. not telling Dave Hughes what he's written is rubbish, having let him stay on this track for 2+ years - I'm sure he didn't have 100000 words just based on the FFE ending and there are other backstory changes yet to be revealed.

In the stream you and the others talked about something that has been requested many many times in the past and even more so since DJTruthSayer's unofficial reveal - yes we need full and complete history/backstory guide. I would love to see your compilation from the early days, but from FD's refusal of this, and Drew's and Dave's pages, it sounds like they're still not interested in sharing a detailed, leaving it to our imagination instead (like everything else). However, won't new licensees need this information? So maybe Frontier have updated your original contribution.

You offered to help us through this grieving process! Can you tell us which of the FFE journal entries are valid? Which parts of the gazetteer, novellas, tales from the frontier, etc. Like I said to Michael in an earlier post, we don't want spoilers, just to know what's what. I daren't ask about ships, I dread what I might hear (I personally don't see the point of saying they never existed, but I'm sure it'll happen).

Off topic - Ages since I've had time to listen to Lave Radio, when did it start being a livestream? Still entertaining but personally I preferred it when you recorded then edited offline before release, I have even less time to listen to these unedited versions than I did the shorter ones.

MartinG said:
For the record, there was also a third ending of the Thargoids plot (although I don’t know how much, if anything, of it was actually implemented in the game): the player could take the Argent’s Quest mission and then simply neglect it, effectively stealing the ship. This was supposed to trigger a series of articles about the player being hunted by another Quest-class ship; should the player decide to return the ship then, there was another set of articles about the ignominious end to Argent’s attempt at contacting Thargoids, and political impossibility of another attempt. (In the dump of all journal entries, this story branch starts with “’QUEST’ STILL MISSING” and ends with “WHITHER THE THARGOIDS NOW?”; the entries alternate between Frontier News, Federal Times, Imperial Herald, RIG, and Universal Scientist.)

Perhaps that ending is to become canon now. From the storytelling point of view, it would make sense: it would effectively have no effect on humanity’s relations with Thargoids, thus leaving all options open.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting option, that list of journal entries is a very interesting read, there's a lot in there that I don't remember seeing before. Is it reliable? Is Jades list of broken missions complete?
 
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