Why no 3rd person?

[Colonel Kenney]

I want to rip out the hastily made third person camera and replace it with an easier to operate one only.

I'm fully behind that. REPPING!

Just make it an orbit camera where you can use the number pad to orbit around just like every other 3rd person camera.

Also if you want ultra coolness - make it like ARMA where you can use TRACKIR to look around!!

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Falcon 4.0 has 3rd person and it's useless for flying. When I play War Thunder realistic, I fly first person only and it's easier. How did people think that 3rd person made things easier anyway - where's the evidence that this is even a thing?

This exactly - its why I posted all the DCS 3rd person videos. There is no advantage and all it does it glorify your own art and increases the enjoyment of the people playing the game.

 

[ick]

Pumpkin, i understand you perfectly, however it doesn't make any sense as we don't have any 3rd person view in the game.
So how could we even test that? But lets go to DayZ or ArmA and you can do the 1st and I can do the 3rd. Or you could watch this and tell me that this is all wrong and we are just making stuff up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zoVIsIT2A

Lysander, this is an awesome video and illustrates exactly why 3rd person on ED is a line that should not be crossed. As stated in the video 3rd person flight...... poisons the experience.

Adding 3rd person view flight is a one way trip that destroys immersion. The community is better off long term with one way to fly. First person.

The real world pilots i know that game agree. No 3rd person flight.

 

[Adept]

3rd person is extremely distancing. It takes you out of the simulation and has you controlling a remote avatar. It doesn't fit Elite at all.

 

[WeirdWizard]

3rd person is extremely distancing. It takes you out of the simulation and has you controlling a remote avatar. It doesn't fit Elite at all.

So don't use it then. Why try to prevent someone who would find it takes them more into the simulation, less distanced and thinks it would fit Elite just as well as it did in the last two elite games from having more fun?

 

[babelfisch]

So, if I go through your posing history I will find that you have zero complaints about anything in the game at any point because, well, it's what the devs wanted to do?

And you have zero suggestions: because you are here poo-pooing the suggestions of others as "not what the devs want"?

We might as well get rid of the "feedback and suggestions" forum, huh?

Sadly you didn't understand anything, please stop quoting me out of context and learn how to read.

 

[WeirdWizard]

The community is better off long term with one way to fly. First person.

The real world pilots i know that game agree. No 3rd person flight.

You're right of course, one way to fly. Let's forgot the play your way nonsense. One way, in fact let's remove that pesky keyboard, mouse and joypad support crazyness. That's not the right way to fly, it has to be HOTAS or nothing, none of those lesser joysticks either thanks. Naturally VR only, I mean that's the right way, right? Who'd play on a flat screen, that's totally immersion breaking right there. The 3 game modes obviously must be merged into one, goes without saying really. We'd best get rid of those volume controls too, can't have people turning off music can we. Do that little lot and the game will be better for everyone, those poor fools who think they know what they'd prefer will soon realise how wrong they are once they've been forced to do it the right way...

The real world garbage men I know agree!

 

[Adept]

I'm not precious about a drone. Contextually that's exactly what it is but to actually have a physical drone that can be interacted with causes too many issues for it to be worth the trouble in implementing. I'll be happy with an easier to use orbit style camera.

Easier to use shouldn't mean it can be used to scan the sky and look for silent running ships IMO. 3rd person gameplay is a bad idea for Elite IMO.

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So don't use it then. Why try to prevent someone who would find it takes them more into the simulation, less distanced and thinks it would fit Elite just as well as it did in the last two elite games from having more fun?

Because 3rd person view gives a huge advantage and has big gameplay effects. Lysander already posted a video which explained it perfectly.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Easier to use shouldn't mean it can be used to scan the sky and look for silent running ships IMO. 3rd person gameplay is a bad idea for Elite IMO.

Or ya know, just not in open if the tiny percentage of people who this would actually affect thought it was that important. Or with a bit more effort ships that don't register on radar could be hidden when in external cam mode.

 

[Affront7]

It's real shame that a full 3rd person camera has never been tested in one of the previous Betas. That way could test and see what effects if any it has on the game and combat, rather then people just making assumptions about the pros and cons. Would be good to see it in a future beta.

 

[ick]

What is with the bad attitude and insulting language from the forums? Lets cut that off.

Now, on with the discussion....

So don't use it then. Why try to prevent someone who would find it takes them more into the simulation, less distanced and thinks it would fit Elite just as well as it did in the last two elite games from having more fun?

WierdWizzard,

Unfortunately, I don't see that as an option. It destroys the genre.

1. In a mix of 3rd vs. 1st "choose what you want", 3rd person flying almost always wins..... an inferior 3rd person pilot has quite an advantage over a 1st person veteran. So you can't have "choose which you want" in a pvp environment. Otherwise everyone in pvp would HAVE to run 3rd person to be competitive... and what little dose of "reality" 1st person provided would be gone. Now you have just neutered ED and made it like every other arcade simulator on the market.

So to summarize, I think any game that is PvP either needs to be 1st or 3rd, not "choose what you want". Switching isn't compatible with multiplayer gaming.


2. If you did allow 3rd person view in the single player elements then when someone went to PvP there would be endless "tears and gnashing of teeth" if you then forced pvp to be 1st person in an attempt to preserve the feel of ED to be more of a real simulator.

3. Running separate 1st person only servers is not workable. We are all in one galaxy here. I don't think anyone wants two galaxies, one with 3rd person view and the other with 1st.

Lets favor for realism on this issue and get away from the desire to see shiny painted objects. I understand this desire, but having been in gaming for 35 years and watching great titles degrade into twitch shooters I can see that the damage to realism is far greater than the benefit of looking at my custom paint job when I fly.

 

[robbyp]

As I said above, no to 3rd person view, but a nice video screen, maybe in the status panel, showing different remote camera views would be good. Just like they have on ships, planes and cars.

 

[PavelKCZ]

Well, the long promised "Commander creation" will be a part of 2.4, if I remember correctly. Because the Commander creation does not have any sense without 3rd person view, I suppose that this 3rd person view will be implemented as a part of 2.4.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Well, the long promised "Commander creation" will be a part of 2.4, if I remember correctly. Because the Commander creation does not have any sense without 3rd person view, I suppose that this 3rd person view will be implemented as a part of 2.4.

I expect that commander creation is before 2.4 - and will make sense when multi-crew is released....

 

[PavelKCZ]

I expect that commander creation is before 2.4 - and will make sense when multi-crew is released....

Yes, as a Solo player, I totally forgot that there will be something called multi-crew. It is totally outside my scope.

 

[Gedemon]

It's called THE RADAR it tells you where everything is! Jeez how many times have you been told this and yet you still cling onto this ridiculous idea that somehow it's easier in 3rd perosn.

Fine, meet me later in open and go into 3rd person and we'll see how I kill you 30-0.

Did the radar tell you where everyone weapons are pointed ?

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'm fully behind that. REPPING!

Just make it an orbit camera where you can use the number pad to orbit around just like every other 3rd person camera.

Also if you want ultra coolness - make it like ARMA where you can use TRACKIR to look around!!

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This exactly - its why I posted all the DCS 3rd person videos. There is no advantage and all it does it glorify your own art and increases the enjoyment of the people playing the game.

I should clarify, I'm talking flight sims here. In First person shooters they should be first and only first for MP given the chance to look around things. I'm all for immersion, but I'm also a big fan of 3d modelling and love looking at the aircraft from different angles, etc. I'd support 3rd person on FPS's if when u were in 3rd you could only use it as a camera and it made all other players invisible (except those on ur friends list / team for group pics maybe) - something like that.

 

[Insomnia]

I just hate it when people are saying 3rd person view doesn't belong in Elite Dangerous, like that's a valid argument.
If it gives an advantage or not is a valid argument but also the *only* argument. And given how little impact a 3rd person view would have on the actual gameplay, other than giving the player the realisation that "this is the ship I fly", I just can't understand the reasons why not having it.
And what the heck... Flyby cam is OK?? Like some sort of replay camera?? Give me a break... Pls.
.
The debug camera exists today. Does that gives people advantages? Does it ruin the immersion? Does it even bothers you? Who knows, you might've used it even. And who knows, being able to steer while in debug cam mode would even be cool!
But please, don't make comparisons to other games, especially not games that are not even close to Elite Dangerous like hardcore flight sims or war sims.
.
I'm pretty much done here.
All I want is to be able to see my ship from behind or whatever, while steering the damned thing, and I would be very happy if we wouldn't be able to use any functions (like weapons) other than basic controls.
.
Fly safe commanders! o7

 

[babelfisch]

oh well with that brilliant line of reasoning I bet you managed to convince everyone here that you were right....on whatever it is you think it is but since you miserably failed to write anything of value nobody here would know.

If you want to know my reasoning you should start to read the thread, you'll find lots of it.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Did the radar tell you where everyone weapons are pointed ?

You really didn't think this one through, did you? Here, let me help you out with this image and see if you can work it out

 

[babelfisch]

With the exception of "realism"/"infiction" that all sounds pretty much like because we said so to me. It is a case of we know better than you the best way to enjoy the experience. I understand that in game design there are situations where you have to make these sorts of calls because it's impractical or indeed impossible not to. But providing external cameras isn't one, I'd be willing to bet this whole issue goes back to a white board brain storming session way back in the games design where someone wrote up "completely immersive first person experience" or something similar and everyone got all excited about it and it somehow because a holy tenant of the game. While I get that may have sounded cool in the brain storm and fits with the VR focus in the real world people like to see their ships flying about. Something they clearly understand as virtually all of their marketing material is from the third person.

The realism issue is fine except the line being drawn here is just odd with so many realism compromises made throughout the design. At the end of the day a harmless feature like external cameras doesn't need a justification because folks who feel the need will either a) not use it or b) come up with their own, IE it's the ships computer generating the view. A bit more realism would be nice in other areas of the game but that's another discussion entirely.

That's why I supported external cameras from the very beginning of this thread?!