Engineers Your RNG Engineers killed this game

[Deleted member 103587]

I came here from Xbox. I've been a console-only gamer for over 20 years. It was the lust for Horizons which gave me the desire to build the $2200 USD PC system, several months ago.

Then engineers happened.

I do not mind grinding for RNG material so much. What I do mind is the stupid RNG engineers themselves. Putting this into perspective, these fools would have been shot the 1st time they took a dump in somebody's ship.

Your "ENGINEERS" HAVE SCREWED UP MY SHIPS every single time.

I haven't logged in since. (over a week now, as of this posting)

Fix or delete them, then let me know so I can go get my ships fixed.

Yeah, I'm VERY mad.

P.S. I'm still waiting on a response to the ticket I created 2 weeks ago.

 

[MottiKhan]

Oh no! The game is doomed. Doooooomed.

 

[Starender]

I came here from Xbox. I've been a console-only gamer for over 20 years. It was the lust for Horizons which gave me the desire to build the $2200 USD PC system, several months ago.

Then engineers happened.

I do not mind grinding for RNG material so much. What I do mind is the stupid RNG engineers themselves. Putting this into perspective, these fools would have been shot the 1st time they took a dump in somebody's ship.

Your "ENGINEERS" HAVE SCREWED UP MY SHIPS every single F'ing time.

I haven't logged in since. (over a week now, as of this posting)

Fix or delete them, then let me know so I can go get my ships fixed.

Yeah, I'm VERY mad.

P.S. I'm still waiting on a response to the ticket I created 2 weeks ago.

You are 100% right, RNG upgrades will kill ED, it already is a lot of players left.
When someone work for 10 hours for something and he looks at the screen, roll a dice and make a bad or even average roll, it just kills any sense of reward, we feel abused, insulted, even some hate and rage.

Really infuriating, i really hope they erase RNG upgrade and put them fixed or maybe a "favor" like experimentals to get an automatic good roll or anything really, because it will kill Elite, i'm certain of that.

 

[suicideeddie]

if you are having problems with a known or undocumenteed bug go here, https://support.frontier.co.uk/view.php.
trolling and whining... just wait a white for a mod to lock or delete your posts.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You are 100% right, RNG upgrades will kill ED, it already is a lot of players left.
When someone work for 10 hours for something and he looks at the screen, roll a dice and make a bad or even average roll, it just kills any sense of reward, we feel abused, insulted, even some hate and rage.

You either need to stop with the hyperbole or seek help, mate. Sane people dont feel 'abused' or 'insulted', nevermind hate and rage when a 'roll of the dice is average' in a computer game. Thats quite literally insane...

 

[thorn-]

You are 100% right, RNG upgrades will kill ED, it already is a lot of players left.
When someone work for 10 hours for something and he looks at the screen, roll a dice and make a bad or even average roll, it just kills any sense of reward, we feel abused, insulted, even some hate and rage.

It's not even just Engineers... it's the fact that Frontier can't decide from patch-to-patch, or version-to-version, where the goalpost is. And I'm just tired of chasing it around the field.

I remember when they did the original Python nerf last year. DEV said "The Python is more powerful than we intended. Therefore we're correcting our mistake." The history of the players' reaction to that doesn't need to be repeated in-depth here, it's well-known. Personally, I didn't even own a Python (still can't afford one), so my opinion on the matter was only related to how difficult it would now be for me to combat a Python. But overall, my feeling was "Well, I understand why people are upset. I sort of agree, but this seems to be a one-time situation."

Except it wasn't. It was just the first of never-ending tweaks and "corrections."

Since that time, DEV has added heat, subtracted heat, then added heat.
Players learn to deal with heat, so DEV reduces heatsink capacity.
Add power capacity, subtract power capacity.
Make AI powerful, then do whatever it is now.
Call USS a "placeholder" last year, now call it "intended content."
Missiles do damage, then they're useless, then they work again.
Shield cells use reasonable power. Wait... now, loads of power. Wait, now they add lots of heat and use loads of power.

And on and on, and over and over.

If Elite is a sandbox, it's not the kind that white knights say it is. It's one in which the PLAYERS are the NPCs in the sandbox, and the Designer is the one playing the game. It makes complete sense why Frontier has a 10-year plan for Elite, because by 2025 they'll finally decide how a ship released in 2015 should perform.

 

[Starender]

You either need to stop with the hyperbole or seek help, mate. Sane people dont feel 'abused' or 'insulted', nevermind hate and rage when a 'roll of the dice is average' in a computer game. Thats quite literally insane...

My point exactly, 10 hours of work for nothing is quite literally insane.

I feel however i want, and i say whatever i want as long as i don't insult anyone, you just called me seek, that on the other hand i really don't appreciate, so i respectfully ask you to not say anything like that ever again, please.

Thank you.

 

[racer1]

I came here from Xbox. I've been a console-only gamer for over 20 years. It was the lust for Horizons which gave me the desire to build the $2200 USD PC system, several months ago.

Then engineers happened.

I do not mind grinding for RNG material so much. What I do mind is the stupid RNG engineers themselves. Putting this into perspective, these fools would have been shot the 1st time they took a dump in somebody's ship.

Your "ENGINEERS" HAVE SCREWED UP MY SHIPS every single F'ing time.

I haven't logged in since. (over a week now, as of this posting)

Fix or delete them, then let me know so I can go get my ships fixed.

Yeah, I'm VERY mad.

P.S. I'm still waiting on a response to the ticket I created 2 weeks ago.

You don't need to use them. My unmodded ships still work just fine. You can remove the mods if you don't like them.

 

[RichardMoss1984]

The anti-RNG rolls onwards with it's doomsaying, Fdev tries to fix grind and then gets stick for "making it too easy", veiled threats at some mass exodus if the game isn't PERFECT to people's desires....
... I'm all for a debate about the shortcomings of the game, but it must be a frustrating job trying to keep people happy for Fdev...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I came here from Xbox. I've been a console-only gamer for over 20 years. It was the lust for Horizons which gave me the desire to build the $2200 USD PC system, several months ago.

Then engineers happened.

I do not mind grinding for RNG material so much. What I do mind is the stupid RNG engineers themselves. Putting this into perspective, these fools would have been shot the 1st time they took a dump in somebody's ship.

Your "ENGINEERS" HAVE SCREWED UP MY SHIPS every single F'ing time.

I haven't logged in since. (over a week now, as of this posting)

Fix or delete them, then let me know so I can go get my ships fixed.

Yeah, I'm VERY mad.

P.S. I'm still waiting on a response to the ticket I created 2 weeks ago.

Dude, just rebuy the modules and calm down or something...

 

[Starender]

The anti-RNG rolls onwards with it's doomsaying, Fdev tries to fix grind and then gets stick for "making it too easy", veiled threats at some mass exodus if the game isn't PERFECT to people's desires....
... I'm all for a debate about the shortcomings of the game, but it must be a frustrating job trying to keep people happy for Fdev...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Dude, just rebuy the modules and calm down or something...

True, but they should not try to make everyone happy, it's an impossible task, they just just try to create fair gameplay, that way the fair people will stay, the unfair will come and go as they want to. Simple as that really.

 

[RichardMoss1984]

From what I can tell, most people are fine with the RNG, and just wanted it tweaked. The crowd who won't tolerate it at all are a small if vocal minority.

Also, I've noticed you seem to be the most vocal of that crowd. If it's so dreadful.. play something else?

 

[Ian Skippy]

My point exactly, 10 hours of work for nothing is quite literally insane.

I feel however i want, and i say whatever i want as long as i don't insult anyone, you just called me seek, that on the other hand i really don't appreciate, so i respectfully ask you to not say anything like that ever again, please.

Thank you.

I was somewhat hoping it was just hyperbole actually, and the hidden suggestion was that (assuming you want the devs to take your feedback seriously) you'd probably be better of not using such overly dramatic words. You may feel and say whatever you want ofcourse, but the further that deviates from whatever 'average user' FD is shooting for, the less interesting that is to anyone but yourself. And I'm sure you can agree that feeling 'abused', hate and rage because of a RNG result in a computer game is 'not normal'. Feel free to use any label for that you want: it wasn't my intention to offend you, I just wanted to point out how bizarre your post comes across when not seen as hyperbolic drama.

Anyway, lets leave it at that. More on-topic: I'd appreciate if the 'RNG haters' stop asking FD to remove it. If someone doesnt like some part of the game, that person is welcome not to do it. No need to steal other people's fun just because someone has not enough self-control or willpower to stop themselves from doing things they dont want to do.

 

[RichardMoss1984]

Anyway, lets leave it at that. More on-topic: I'd appreciate if the 'RNG haters' stop asking FD to remove it. If someone doesnt like some part of the game, that person is welcome not to do it. No need to steal other people's fun just because someone has not enough self-control or willpower to stop themselves from doing things they dont want to do.

This. Also, the simple fact is that frontier want the RNG, and it won't go. Seems wierd to hang about and get snide about it, when this is becoming VERY clear. It's like going to a party and not liking the music. Instead of shutting up or leaving, you just hang about telling people how rubbish the party is.

 

[Starender]

From what I can tell, most people are fine with the RNG, and just wanted it tweaked. The crowd who won't tolerate it at all are a small if vocal minority.

Also, I've noticed you seem to be the most vocal of that crowd. If it's so dreadful.. play something else?

I don't even play anymore, i tried really hard to like RNGineer but it's not worth it, so i moved on.
You're wrong tho, most people are really not fine at all with the RNGineers, every poll we did proves it. Does it need only small tweaks, or a solid results without any RNG ? we will know soon enough.

Now i like this project, and i want it to succeed, that's it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You don't need to use them. My unmodded ships still work just fine. You can remove the mods if you don't like them.

This. Also, the simple fact is that frontier want the RNG, and it won't go. Seems wierd to hang about and get snide about it, when this is becoming VERY clear. It's like going to a party and not liking the music. Instead of shutting up or leaving, you just hang about telling people how rubbish the party is.

You will notice that there is a common pattern: people who are very upset with the Engineers will:

1) grind while complaining about grinding
2) ask FD to remove the ability to grind
3) say they experience enormously negative emotions
4) yet continue to play

Its quite close to what slot machine addicts say. Seriously, do keep in mind that a percentage of this community quite literally is not able to control themself in-game with such mechanisms, and asking them to just stop doing something they dont like is akin to asking an alcoholic to just stop drinking.

 

[Eera]

SO TRUE ! +1op

 

[Devari]

It's not even just Engineers... it's the fact that Frontier can't decide from patch-to-patch, or version-to-version, where the goalpost is. And I'm just tired of chasing it around the field.

I remember when they did the original Python nerf last year. DEV said "The Python is more powerful than we intended. Therefore we're correcting our mistake." The history of the players' reaction to that doesn't need to be repeated in-depth here, it's well-known. Personally, I didn't even own a Python (still can't afford one), so my opinion on the matter was only related to how difficult it would now be for me to combat a Python. But overall, my feeling was "Well, I understand why people are upset. I sort of agree, but this seems to be a one-time situation."

Except it wasn't. It was just the first of never-ending tweaks and "corrections."

You make it sound like this is a bad thing. I don't understand that mentality at all. How could you possibly expect an online game, where thousands of players will fairly quickly find the most efficient/effective approaches, not to require constant reassessment and rebalancing?

Since that time, DEV has added heat, subtracted heat, then added heat.
Players learn to deal with heat, so DEV reduces heatsink capacity.
Add power capacity, subtract power capacity.
Make AI powerful, then do whatever it is now.
Call USS a "placeholder" last year, now call it "intended content."
Missiles do damage, then they're useless, then they work again.
Shield cells use reasonable power. Wait... now, loads of power. Wait, now they add lots of heat and use loads of power.

And on and on, and over and over.

Again, I don't understand this complaint. The game is complex and rather technical (not a straightforward FPS) and even a relatively small advantage for a given ship or module will quickly evolve into the "top tier" meta approach in the game. Did you like the game better when we had all the SCB-spamming nonsense? Or when missiles were made useless against shields, but you could never drop shields because of SCBs, so they had no role in the game? Or any other number of balance issues that FD recognized and corrected? It's an evolving game and each new patch brings content that shifts the meta completely and needs to be reevaluated. Take a basic weapon like the multicannon for example. Their only real weaknesses, on launch, were low shield damage and being ammo-dependent. Other than that they were better overall than lasers in the vast majority of situations, especially pre-SCBs when shields were not that hard to drop. Then we got horizons, and a hour or two of grinding nickel/iron/sulphur gives you enough for a dozen instant reloads in combat. So there goes the ammo issue. Then we got class 3 multicannons and incendiary special effects with engineers, and that suddenly makes them good against shields AND hulls, not to mention that shields already took a nerf with SCBs and heat generation, etc. Now incendiary multicannons were apparently too powerful, so incendiary rounds got a nerf. All of these changes were gameplay-driven and essential to maintain balance. The issue is that you don't see the changes to the game as requiring rebalancing for some reason, you seem to think each launch is going to be perfect without needing further changes or adjustments despite the significant changes that the new ships/modules/options bring to the game.

If Elite is a sandbox, it's not the kind that white knights say it is. It's one in which the PLAYERS are the NPCs in the sandbox, and the Designer is the one playing the game. It makes complete sense why Frontier has a 10-year plan for Elite, because by 2025 they'll finally decide how a ship released in 2015 should perform.

The issue here is really that the beta testing for every Elite release is done by a very small, very vocal minority of players rater than an open beta where the entire player base (i.e., everyone who has subscribed to a given season) has access. This is their biggest problem with the balancing. To expediate their beta testing they also dramatically discount ships, etc., so the emphasis is entirely on gameplay issues and not cost/grind/other factors that balance access to the content. Unfortunately means that we will need to deal with issues that weren't properly addressed in beta and then need a massive adjustment, like the 20 mil base cost for the Vulture that was later dropped to under 5 mil, or the overpowered AI + engineering mods which were subsequently nerfed/removed. These types of issues aren't going to be recognized properly with their extremely limited beta testing that FD currently does and need to be addressed when each expansion reaches the general player base. Unfortunately since beta access was an exclusive given to early backers you can basically expect this situation won't change, and effectively the first 4 weeks after any given expansion will be the "real" beta testing period where the players give feedback re. balance issues. The bright side here is that FD is amazingly responsive to player input and feedback. This has already happened with Engineers within the first 4 weeks, as we have favors, planetary mat postings, changes to the AI, etc., etc. We also have changes to the mat grinding, surface scanners, etc, on their way in the next month. So I see all these changes as good and absolutely necessary for the game and actually enjoy the process despite it's frustrations because I know that the game will be properly balanced again after 1-2 months of player input.

 

[RichardMoss1984]

I don't even play anymore, i tried really hard to like RNGineer but it's not worth it, so i moved on.
You're wrong tho, most people are really not fine at all with the RNGineers, every poll we did proves it. Does it need only small tweaks, or a solid results without any RNG ? we will know soon enough.

Now i like this project, and i want it to succeed, that's it.

You don't play, but are always on the forums? Like those guys who hang around school years after graduating?

 

[Starender]

You don't play, but are always on the forums? Like those guys who hang around school years after graduating?

And you speak about people who don't play but are always on the forums, like those guys who's looking other people dance while he's stuck at the free food table ?

I really don't appreciate your ton dude, it's the third post that you're judging me. I try to not judge you but it's getting harder to resist.

Back off.

 

[MottiKhan]

You don't play, but are always on the forums? Like those guys who hang around school years after graduating?

LOL! I met a guy like that once! At work. He read my resume and kept talking about going to the same High School as I did. We were in our 30's at the time. I avoided him as much as I could. Hahahaha!