well, some love the BGS for being a blackbox (I'm not one of them), and it caters experience and implicit knowledge... but at least it would be nice, if there was a general hint SOMEHOW, that spawns depend on states, economies etc.... in best case in an ingame way. missions for smuggler hunting when in boom, or chat that gives a clear hint in supercruise etc.
Engineers Forcing players to kill soft targets or cops for materials
- Thread starter psyantologist
- Start date
well, some love the BGS for being a blackbox (I'm not one of them), and it caters experience and implicit knowledge... but at least it would be nice, if there was a general hint SOMEHOW, that spawns depend on states, economies etc.... in best case in an ingame way. missions for smuggler hunting when in boom, or chat that gives a clear hint in supercruise etc.
they are WANTED, you don't get wanted for hauling illegal goods, so either "those npcs didn't pay their fines for a week", or "those NPC have shot someone, and now they are hauling illegal goods" - i believe, it is the first one, but who knows. in any case, system security opens fire, when someone is wanted ;-)
but from a RP perspective, i'd attack them because most of them do human trafficking. which is also why i personally find it acceptable, to attack seeking weapons dealers. always "hated those guys" - now i have a even better reason to attack them in POIs. but each his own! I'm just taking it as an exampel, that, while there are min-maxers ways to approach that, the game offers several options to do it defferently. it is a bit like with that mission-board-refreshing via mode-switching during robigo-times. you could as well cycle between the colonies ports to pick up missions (which is what i have done) - but obviously that cutted into cr/h-values. still, the game didn't "force you" to refresh the bulletin board via mode switching.
Only shameful despicable pirates would prefer to farm haulers at an Anarchy RES like Qi Yomisi (close to Duaguandri), right??
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EDIT: And for once that pirates have it easier than "honest" players, please leave us be...
What sane pirate would slaughter the cattle that carries the sweet bags of money for them,
in order to be milked for basic components for engineering?
I have my diffculties, not moral wise, but plain logically to destroy transport ships,
even NPCs, as it is contrary to the flow of goods in the system.
Sometimes fingers get trigger-happy, but that is the exception.
I as a pirate hardly can accept the need to kill haulage ships,
ferreting through the mechanical carcass to get BASIC modules
of any ship, every shipyard requires to build and equip them.
The logic flaw of looting is a large one.
It is true that you can hunt wanted ships without repercussion,
but before finding workarounds, we should get to the core of the problem:
Logic.
Why do we have to "disassemble" ships to get their components,
which are bulk-commodities basically for shipbuilding?
There are some rarer stuff that might be quirky like core dynamics proprietary composites,
but why wouldn't you be able to qualify as a buyer to core dynamics?
Looting should have been a boon to salvage as a job,
not a necessity for engineering stuff.
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Conflict Zones.
EDIT: Not wanted but, once you side, you don't murder them, you give them a good fight.
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I am going to put this one here.
[video=youtube;GArkyxP8-n0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GArkyxP8-n0[/video]
Grinding and Long Term Progression Systems which take forever for the Player to get to something. And Forces him to go through all sorts of stuff should not be the Target of a Game.
This Game is Full of such Systems.
The Insane Price Changes between Ships which make absolutely no Sense in relation to each other.
As well as the new Engineers Upgrade
This Game is Artifically Trying to make itself Longer. And thats not really the Point of a Game.
Stop Wasting our Time with this stuff. If the Game is Good we will Play it without you Forcing us to Grind 3 Weeks for getting some Effect of one of our Weapons!
[video=youtube;GArkyxP8-n0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GArkyxP8-n0[/video]
Grinding and Long Term Progression Systems which take forever for the Player to get to something. And Forces him to go through all sorts of stuff should not be the Target of a Game.
This Game is Full of such Systems.
The Insane Price Changes between Ships which make absolutely no Sense in relation to each other.
As well as the new Engineers Upgrade
This Game is Artifically Trying to make itself Longer. And thats not really the Point of a Game.
Stop Wasting our Time with this stuff. If the Game is Good we will Play it without you Forcing us to Grind 3 Weeks for getting some Effect of one of our Weapons!
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You dont have to kill cops. Just go to any combat zone and kill military ships.
You dont have to kill innocent traders either. Go to a control system of an enemy powerplay faction and kill powerplay aligned trade ships there.
In fairness, though, everything on this list should be available at a signal source/surface POI and/or as a mission reward.....even if they're only available as a high rank mission reward. I do believe that this is something that will come with the planned patch scheduled for the end of this month.
They should have just made it so that you can obtain the same materials from doing different things.
So if you need high density composites for example you would have several choices:
1. you could find it in a wrecked ship on a planet
2. you could find it in the remains of a wrecked ship in space
3. you could go and destroy some ships for it
4. you could trade some rares for it to some sort of junk yard materials dealer
5. You could get it as a mission reward
That way there would be something for the combat pilots, the explorers, and the space truckers. It would be up to the player to choose which path to take to obtain what he wants.
This suggests that its already a direction they're looking at taking things with the next patch.
![[DOOK] Droogie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/124/124078.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
Never killed soft targets or Cops and always got what I needed for engineers. For what mod exaclty are you forced to do so?
I don't know what the problem is. Haulage ships? I collected the mats I needed after gunning down WANTED haulage ships... which included Cobra Mk III and Asp, so don't think it's exclusively ZP Haulers. Those NPCs done wrong, so no atrocities committed. All perfectly legal and above board.
Those NPCs done wrong, so no atrocities committed. All perfectly legal and above board.I don't know what the problem is. Haulage ships? I collected the mats I needed after gunning down WANTED haulage ships... which included Cobra Mk III and Asp, so don't think it's exclusively ZP Haulers.
The Problem is that People dont want to go around doing Different Jobs.
An Explorer does not want to Kill People.
But he wants an FSD Jump Range Upgrade.
An Upgrade which is gotten from Materials that Require you to go. Surface Mining, Kill Transport Ships and Scanning High Wakes.
3 Different Jobs. Now the Surface Mining falls somewhat into the Explorer thing.
But High Wake Scanning and Killing Transport Ships ?
Most of the Upgrade in this Game are only Available by doing 3-4 Different Jobs. Jobs which partially require Different Equipment and most of the Time are not even the Job which your later on Doing with that Upgrade lol.
Take the Laser Damage Upgrades for example. They all Require you to do Surface Missions and Attack Surface Bases to get the Firmware.
From a Game Designers Viewpoint. This Design Screams to me. "We want to Force the Player to Play all the Content and not only the Part that he wants to Play"
The only way around doing that. is to get the Materials from USS or Missions which Offer Random Materials dependent on a Systems State and thus usually take alot of Grind and alot of Repetition before you actually get the Stuff you want.
And sorry but this is Horrible.
I will likely never get an Engineer Upgrade. Simply because I am working and only have maybe 2 Hours per Day for Gaming.
2 Hours I sure as hell wont Spend every Day for WEEKS just to get Materials for one Upgrade.
The Current Engineer Mechanics are the Same as the Ship and Equipment Prices.
They are Illogical and cause an Insane Grind.
And sorry. But thats Rubbish.
Especially because all of these Materials are Apparently basic stuff and Ship Components. Why the cant we just Buy this Stuff ????
I mean 99% of this Stuff should be Available for Buying at Stations.
Scavenging for them should of course be Cheaper. But you should be able to just Buy them.
This whole thing Screams that the Devs somehow wanted to use this to Artifically hold Players inside the Game for an Extended Period by making an Unimaginable Grind out of it to get this Stuff.
And Sorry but thats not Fun or Entertaining. Its Boring like Hell and Frustrating.
The Engineers could be such an Great thing adding new Content to the Game and new Depth to Ship Customization. If you could just Buy those Materials which would Create an money Sink for Rich Players to Modify their Ship. And at the same Time make sure that those who Scavenge and Mine for the Stuff get it much much Cheaper or can Simply Sell it for Cash if they dont need it.
Instead they made it a Grindfest that many Player Outright Refuse to even bother with.
From the Introduction of Engineers to the Material Gathering. It makes no Sense and is Only Grind.
And Sorry but thats Rubbish.
I agree in part to what your saying, I would like ALL materials to be obtainable from any activity. I am not too concerned with drop rates or RNG but I would like to do what I find fun and still find what I need. Its all well and good saying if you don't like it don't do it but that's just restricting game content which in my humble opinion is bad game design
No, you are thinking it is broken because you do not want to do it, it does not mean it is broken. It mean you think it is and you don't want, so yo then you will not get an upgrade.
You just need your hands dirty. No pain, no upgrade. You cant eat coockie and have coockie.
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There is two Options here.
A.
Its Broken.
B.
Its Rubbish.
Wether the System being Crab being Intentional or Not. Doesnt Change that its Rubbish. And Sorry but this Do 10 Different Jobs to Farm Materials for an Upgrade is Rubbish.
It Destroys the Entire Game Meta of Deciding for yourself what Job you do in this Game because you no longer have this Choice.
This is Bad Game Design. End of Story.
Edit:
And as an Sidenote.
This whole "Well you dont want to do it then dont do it" is Rubbish.
Because the Upgrades give an Tremendous Advantage. One which more and more becomes an Requirement thanks to ED putting up Monster NPCs etc.
If you Say that we cannot Play an Part of the Game we Paid for because we dont want to bother with Crappy Game Design. Then well I guess this Game is not Worth Money and Deserves the Bad Reviews its getting Lately.
Thats all there is to it.
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i think you bring up some vey valid points here - human game design, forced activities.
i just want to share a repeated observation of myself. i didn't care about upgrades the last 10-14 days. two minor factions i back were expanding, a war was to be fought, i did a short exploration trip, and then there were the dangerous games.
thursday night i looked through my spreadsheet (stupid that we need to keep those...), to check which upgrades i will aim for this weekend. and found out that i somehow collected all materials needed beside 2 very rare materials. so i spend a whole friday night playing elite : shiplogistics (ship transport needs to come soon!), and did 11 upgrades to 4 ships (L4/L5 upgrades).
now i might go searching for those very rare materials, or "play the game" or both - anyway, i made the same observation on myself the first 2 days of the new patch: it was horrible to grind for my first L5 FSD increase...
i'm not sure, what to conclude, but i somehow think taking upgrades/engineering as "content" or something to play for, isn't the right thing to do with the current design. either they need to change that (so people can play for engineering like for playing to get to beagle point or to back their minor faction or to get elite or for CR or whatever), or the presentation of this feature was misleading, or their picture of players is different to many players mindset...
I absolutely disagree with every part of this.
I think it's interesting and encourages people to step outside of their comfort zone. I enjoy it. And I don't consider Engineer upgrades essential for anyone expect PvPers: The rest of the PvE environment can be tackled without needing upgades.
All opinions are valid, but the mechanics that you claim 'are rubbish' are enjoyed by other players.
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Hello, little snowflake. My pony was stolen by anarchists. They carried it off in a small cargo ship. Go there and kill these anarchists. Oh, and bring back the pony, too.
See my signature regarding powerplay. My suggestion was for those who want to roleplay the good guy and not kill innocent traders. You do not even have to participate in PP, but you can still kill PP NPCs for their materials.
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