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Sorry. Just that any time someone mentions power play, my only response is maniacal laughter. It's like a natural defense.
Engineers Forcing players to kill soft targets or cops for materials
- Thread starter psyantologist
- Start date
Sorry. Just that any time someone mentions power play, my only response is maniacal laughter. It's like a natural defense.
Option C: Its good
Even things you disagree with are possabilitys
And your really don't need to kill traders for FSD mods. I've done fsd mods of all grades and couple of Grade 5 now and never killed any trader.
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Option C: Its good
Even things you disagree with are possabilitys
And your really don't need to kill traders for FSD mods. I've done fsd mods of all grades and couple of Grade 5 now and never killed any trader.
There is no Option C.
If there was an Option C this Topic would not Exist.
There is Plan C tough which we could Resort to.
[video=youtube;0PPVjYeD-Mk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PPVjYeD-Mk[/video]
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I don't know what the problem is. Haulage ships? I collected the mats I needed after gunning down WANTED haulage ships... which included Cobra Mk III and Asp, so don't think it's exclusively ZP Haulers.
The problem is that the drop of those items appeared to be based on the role the ship is carrying at the time. From what I've seen, Asps in HIRES acting as pirates don't drop them. Meaning you were probably gunning down smugglers.
Sure, it's legal to kill them, but I for one don't consider smuggling to be a capital offense, and I'm not willing to kill for it. If the smuggler is affiliated with a known pirate faction, I might make an exception, but that's an awful lot of searching to find haulage ships acting in a haulage role working for a pirate faction.
That said, there are other ways to get those components - they can all be gotten from mission rewards, and most of them can be gotten from signal sources (degraded emissions detected, for example).
I'll admit the mechanic of items that only regularly drop from haulage ships does annoy me... but it doesn't annoy me nearly as much as having an engineer that I have to smuggle to unlock (and thus will never unlock), and another I have to mine to unlock (and thus will never unlock) does!
This whole thread confuses me :S
Some players choose not to play certain parts of the game, which is fine and obviously entirely up to them. But, to then complain that they don't receive the benefits available from playing those parts of the game, how does that make any sort of sense?
Some players choose not to play certain parts of the game, which is fine and obviously entirely up to them. But, to then complain that they don't receive the benefits available from playing those parts of the game, how does that make any sort of sense?
The issue with Engineers is that the parts of the game that you need to play for certain upgrades makes no sense. For example, you need mining materials to upgrade certain weapons, and yet mining is a "non-combat" profession because you mount mining lasers on your ship. So a bounty hunter, who should be able to get all the necessary materials to upgrade weapons during the course of their normal activities suddenly has to start mining just to get osmium to craft certain weapons. That's just silly. It's similar to the FSD and thruster upgrades requiring Chemical Manipulators and needing to blow up transports to get those. Explorers don't blow up transports in the course of their exploration, so again they have to do a completely unrelated activity to upgrade their FSD drives. I have no problem with upgrades being tied to the primary activities of the professions they are related to, but making a bounty hunter start mining or an explorer start blowing up transports is just terrible game design. Not to mention that it's completely counter to the idea of an immersive space sim where your character follows some type of internal "narrative" that you've created for them. Having to do random activities destroys this immersion and this makes the game pointless for many players because it's no longer about interacting with the game universe in a coherent way, it's suddenly about doing random activities to "progress" in some way and the entire point of why you're even playing the game is lost.
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This Part of the Game Offers an Significant Advantage to others and Punishes People Like me who simply have to Work and thus cannot Spend Weeks of time on it.
I would Currently not go into Open Play. Simply because PvPers running around with Heatshock Lasers and Improved Armor and Shields are nothing I could Possibly Beat without having those Upgrades.
For what it's worth, I've been flying a Courier with no guns and a 2D shield generator around in Open for a week and a half hoping someone would interdict me so I could find out if her raw speed was as effective at outrunning other CMDR'S as it is at outrunning NPC's... but nobody has actually tried yet! I've seen a number of other CMDR's in supercruise, but apparently none of them were nefarious pirates. So, for now at least, flying in Open has not proven to be terribly threatening.
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You don't have to kill "innocent" NPCs you know...just drop at a NAV beacon and you will find plenty of haulers with a bounty on their head.
Only shameful despicable pirates would prefer to farm haulers at an Anarchy RES like Qi Yomisi (close to Duaguandri), right??
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EDIT: And for once that pirates have it easier than "honest" players, please leave us be...
Pretty much this. I have little trouble finding cargo vessels with wanted tags when super cruising about. I don't go for the inocent ones because it doesn't suit my play style.
Deleted member 38366
D
When it comes to finding Wanted Transporters for a legit kill that also drop needed Mats, the most luck I always have is by hugging a busy Station.
Wanted Type-7's or AspS/AspX (they seem to count as Transporters in a Station instance) docking or undocking are common enough to grab a few of the otherwise hard-to-attain Materials.
Wanted Type-7's or AspS/AspX (they seem to count as Transporters in a Station instance) docking or undocking are common enough to grab a few of the otherwise hard-to-attain Materials.
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I've played in open exclusively for two years now, almost entirely within the bubble (I'm not much of an explorer
) and have seen hundreds or possibly thousands of other Cmdrs. In all that time I've only had four or five combat encounters with other players, the other 99.9% have been either passing by doing our own thing, shouting out a quick 'Hi Cmdr, fly safe', stopping for a quick chat or occasionally teaming up to do some task or other. Of the combat encounters, two were being interdicted by opposing Cmdrs (fair play to them) during CGs, one was me interdicting somebody opposed to a CG and the last few were random lunatics shooting-on-site, seen once then never again.For me at least (and other Cmdrs I've met in game), open play's forum reputation as some sort of bloodbath is not so much an exaggeration as a myth.
Having said that, I'm sure there are certain systems at certain times where PVP minded players gather to fight, but I've not run across them yet
Because the ways in which these upgrades are gated generally defy any attempt to make sense out of them.
Because it's really stupid and illogical to tell a man who wants better armor on his ship that he has to go mining to get it. If you're tying upgrades to game activities you should at least tie them to activities related to how those upgrades will be used.
Right now, as a combat pilot who refuses to mine or smuggle, I am cut off from armor upgrades entirely, and from the best shield upgrades.
This is to say, FD has decided to make gate upgrades related to combat effectiveness behind non-combat activities - one which is about as exciting as watching paint dry, and the other of which is illegal!
Railroading your players into game activities they don't want to do in order to get upgrades you know very well they will view as essential (and don't tell me FD does not know that combat pilots will view these upgrades as essential... FD is not that naive!) is the antithesis of the "Blaze your own trail" Elite: Dangerous advertises.
If there were no PvP in the game, it might be different. But PvP is there. As a combat pilot, I cannot count on AI inferiority to ensure victory, because not all my opponents will be AI. I can't discard any advantage, because other players won't!
So I'm caught between principles, in a trap of FD's design. Either I surrender to the game's attempts to push upon me hours and hours of grinding so-called content I have no interest in or desire to experience so that I might deny my opponent an advantage... or I stick to my guns, refuse to do things I don't like, and either retreat into Solo or accept inevitable defeat in any PvP encounter that comes along.
I've pushed this dilemma off by upgrading my Courier - which is not a combat build - first. But I'm very much not looking forward to trying to find a viable approach to building my FdL without the mods which are unavailable to me.
Odds are, I'll just never fly that ship in Oen.
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You have a choice. To make your hands dirty or not.
You want to be immortal. To be immortal you need to be a vampire. To be a vampire you need to drink a blood.
But you do not like to drink a blood. Simple - you will not be immortal.
Another example - You want to drink a coffee feel more 'wake up', but you do not like a coffee. Simple. If you do not drink a coffe then you will not feel more 'wake up'. It is Your choice to drink a cofee or not.
You just not have balls to do something bad to someone innocent. Then you will not have an upgrade or will not be immortall.
This is an essence of choice and a consequences.
You are deciding of what job you will do and what you will get.
Now, story is ended.
You can kill Seeking Weapons weapons dealer to get Chemical Manipulators. They are not innocent. They are making their money on tools of doom. Kill them, then you will make world better.
Problem of moral choice solved.
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No there is no choice.
I am an Explorer.
And I.ll Stay an Explorer. If that Means I am Excluded from the Game I.ll simply not Waste Money on this Game any Further.
No Offense Mate.
But imagine some Drug Dealer Kidnapping your Daughter.
And then he Demands you Deal Drugs for him.
You say you dont want to.
And he tells you.
Well you got the Choice. You can make your Hands Dirty and your Daughter will Life.
Or you dont.....
You Telling me that this is an Actual Choice in your Eyes ?
We didn't need this material collection to force us to do something different CG already exist and were good way to make players do different stuff. Some may enjoy the current implementation of looting and crafting but they would have enjoyed as much even if it worked differently. They would have liked as much less annoying and frustrating system. FDev made bad choice when the took system that is known to be hated by many and enjoyed by some instead of system that most of players would haven't had any problems with.
Hyperbole much? Sure, things need to be tweaked and you have a fair gripe as to the tasks should all be related to the job most clearly relevant to the upgrade, but your example is all kinds of off. Are you comparing that upgrade to your baby daughter? C'mon, man! You can be more reasonable than this. I've repped posts of yours before on other threads. Take a moment and maybe think about that example and why it isn't appropriate (I mean from a logical standpoint, not emotional or ethical)No there is no choice.
I am an Explorer.
And I.ll Stay an Explorer. If that Means I am Excluded from the Game I.ll simply not Waste Money on this Game any Further.
No Offense Mate.
But imagine some Drug Dealer Kidnapping your Daughter.
And then he Demands you Deal Drugs for him.
You say you dont want to.
And he tells you.
Well you got the Choice. You can make your Hands Dirty and your Daughter will Life.
Or you dont.....
You Telling me that this is an Actual Choice in your Eyes ?
No there is no choice.
I am an Explorer.
And I.ll Stay an Explorer. If that Means I am Excluded from the Game I.ll simply not Waste Money on this Game any Further.
No Offense Mate.
But imagine some Drug Dealer Kidnapping your Daughter.
And then he Demands you Deal Drugs for him.
You say you dont want to.
And he tells you.
Well you got the Choice. You can make your Hands Dirty and your Daughter will Life.
Or you dont.....
You Telling me that this is an Actual Choice in your Eyes ?
No. I will then kill a drug dealer, with no remorse and no regrets.
You have a choice. You can explore with what you have or dirty hands and get stuff. You can also get an needed stuff from a missions.... So problem seems to be solved.
Do not want get it from a missions or it can take so long? Well so then your morality could be push on trial... You can always kill haulers or weapons dealers.
This is called a temptation
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Hyperbole much? Sure, things need to be tweaked and you have a fair gripe as to the tasks should all be related to the job most clearly relevant to the upgrade, but your example is all kinds of off. Are you comparing that upgrade to your baby daughter? C'mon, man! You can be more reasonable than this. I've repped posts of yours before on other threads. Take a moment and maybe think about that example and why it isn't appropriate (I mean from a logical standpoint, not emotional or ethical)
Thing is this one is actually meant to be Triggering this Emotional Ethical Viewpoint actually [noob]
Its about the Feeling you have about things
The Example might be a bit Rough. But its Perfectly Choosen here. Because thats pretty much what this Comment I keep hearing in here comes down to.
Telling People "Hey you got the Choice to make your Hands Dirty or not" Is exactly this kind of Emotional and Ethical Wrong thing that brings me up a tree right there.
Not going for these Upgrades means an Vast Disadvantage in the Game.
Especially when your Combat Oriented. So the Statement that People got a Choice is not Correct. Because lets Face it. They dont have a Choice. They have to get these Upgrades or they are Outmatched. Thats the Fact we got.
And here comes another Aspect. I am Playing a Game. I want to have Fun
I dont want to do bothersome Gruntwork for Days just to be able to Play again.
I am a Shift Worker. Which has on a very good Day 2 Hours available for Gaming.
Take a Guess how Eager I am to Spend this Time Grinding Materials for Engineer Upgrades.
So what am I doing right now ?
Thats Simple. I am sitting in Solo because I have no Counter for Thermal Shock Weapons. And I am not going to Risk my Ship in Open.
My Time Spend on the Game is Gradually Weakening and I am moving towards other Games. And I would dare Guessing I am not alone.
Sorry.
But Telling People like me an Sentence like
"Well you got the Choice. You can get your Hands Dirty or you Dont"
Directly Translates to us like. "Well if you dont Like it dont Play the Game"
And I am not kidding you there. Thats exactly the thing I am hearing out of that. This is what this means for me.
And now let me ask you again.
Do you really want all the Players who are not Ready to do Crazy Grind for this stuff and who dont want to do all kinds of Different Jobs they dont want to do. To leave the Game ?
Maybe You think a bit about this Sentence you that is being thrown around here ?
Maybe then you.ll realize just why I choose an "hyperbole" example
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No. I will then kill a drug dealer, with no remorse and no regrets.
You have a choice. You can explore with what you have or dirty hands and get stuff. You can also get an needed stuff from a missions.... So problem seems to be solved.
Do not want get it from a missions or it can take so long? Well so then your morality could be push on trial... You can always kill haulers or weapons dealers.
This is called a temptation
Sorry.
The Drug Dealer had an Gun.
When you came he Shot you into your Guts.
Then Shot your Daughter and Dumped both of you into an River closeby.
Sorry to tell ya. But you had no Choice.
Nah sorry. It's a terrible example and detracts badly from your argument. The point that things need tweaking and improvement is a good one. The comparison between a mod and ones own child is just silly. All it states is that you are overly emotional about the issue and unlikely to assess it clearly. I'm not saying that is true of you, just that that is the impression you give when you use that example. Also, while you do have to stray from exploration only when seeking your extended range, killing cops and innocent traders is not your only option (though it may be the fastest); hence the discussion on tweaks and mechanics.
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