Fly backwards and try mines, you'll find that those hardpoints now work well, yet others may be a problem.
If you are wanting to fire 8 mine launchers on a Conda at every opponent, you are out of luck. I'd say that's actually good design, not bad.
Engineers Forcing players to kill soft targets or cops for materials
- Thread starter psyantologist
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If you are wanting to fire 8 mine launchers on a Conda at every opponent, you are out of luck. I'd say that's actually good design, not bad.
"Fly backwards and try mines, you'll find that those hardpoints now work well, yet others may be a problem."
Quote of the Day.
Spoken like a True Fanboy.
Sorry Man. But as I said before.
Some People Learn to Work around bad Game Mechanics or even Abuse them for their own Benefit.
Others actually demand that the Game is Fixed to a Proper State.
And I am Second.
Mines are defensive weapons and should be mounted so that they are fired into a ships rear arc. If you can't fire mines properly from certain hardpoints this is clearly a bug that needs to be fixed. What you're suggesting about flying backwards is like someone noticing that some of their fixed multicannons are mounted to fire backwards instead of forwards, and your answer is that you fly backwards or fire them at enemies following you, it's "working as intended" because you can still technically hit something with them. That makes no sense at all.
3 words: compromised nav beacon. Headed there in my python a while ago. Managed to find wanted haulers, t-7's, t-9's, and a bunch of other trading and smuggling ships. All wanted. Also managed to collect 500 000 credits of bounties in the process without killing a single innocent.
Why insult him? Has nothing to do with fanboyism. He's right. Says a lot about the game that you can misuse things and damage yourself. Dropping a mine in front of yourself and running into it is silly. Backwards thrust and fighting, which is very much a valid tactic can benefit from well placed mines. The game has valid options for varied strategies. If you struggle to adapt to that then try something else but to say it's a bad mechanic is faulty reasoning. Much as was the case when you suggested high waking was a bad mechanic. It isn't. There's also nothing to suggest it was a bug that was kept in for others to exploit. You don't like it and that's fine. A lot of us do like it because it provides options that are situationally useful and fit a wide variety of play styles and require thinking, practice and skill to accomplish effectively. I'm sorry, but your suggestions would lead us to a game simple enough to play off a tablet and personally I think that would suck. What else do you want, landing gear to automatically deploy when you approach dock?
Sorry but I have to Ask.
YOU SERIOUS ?
Are you Seriously claiming that this is Intended and that you should Fly Backwards using Mines on these Slots ?
Mate no Offense. But no its not.
Its a Bug. Thats all there is too it.
And no Mate. Landing Gear is Manual for a Reason. Because you have to Decide wether you want to Land or not.
With Mines however this is a different case. You dont Install those for them to be Scuttled by your own Hull.
Mines in themselves are an Weapon that is in it very sense meant to be Dropped against Pursuiers. What sense would it make to Turn around and Fly Backwards and then Throw Mines.
If I turned around I could Shoot Missiles or normal Weapons in the First Place.
Dropping mines this way makes no Sense.
As an sidenote it makes just as little Sense as High Wake and Low Wake.
Low Waking into Empty Space which needs hardly any Calculations and has little risk of hitting anything undesired is Disturbed by Mass Objects close to you. Because its apparently juggling up Calculations.
But High Waking to another System which requires very accurate complex calulations which should by all Rights be Disturbed like hell when Mass Objects close to you keep moving around thus creating variables and changes in your calculations in which a single millimeter off could throw you light years off target. Is completely fine and doesnt even take longer.
Something I advocate everywhere.
Consistency of Game Mechanics.
Rules need to Make Sense with each other and have to be True for everyone at all Times.
In Elite Dangerous. Alot of Systems are changing their Physics Laws like other People change their Underwear....
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The wake thing is clear handwavium but it makes sense because it provides clear benefits and punishments as a game element. You low wake and you are back on track where you were. You high wake and you have to go through the gauntlet all over again to reach your destination. it makes perfect game sense.
As for the mines, they make even more sense. The sense that it makes in turning around and dropping mines is that you get a visual on your enemy which makes for more effective aiming. Depending on your ship you can have the mines as well as other weapons meaning not only do you fire back face on but you force your opponent to either take the mines in the face or evade and turn his/her/it's back on you, creating a far more advantageous position (especially if you go with concussive). It's smart; It works and if you can't manage it it will punish you... Sorry mate, but these mechanics aren't faulty, you just don't like them.
As for the mines, they make even more sense. The sense that it makes in turning around and dropping mines is that you get a visual on your enemy which makes for more effective aiming. Depending on your ship you can have the mines as well as other weapons meaning not only do you fire back face on but you force your opponent to either take the mines in the face or evade and turn his/her/it's back on you, creating a far more advantageous position (especially if you go with concussive). It's smart; It works and if you can't manage it it will punish you... Sorry mate, but these mechanics aren't faulty, you just don't like them.
1.
Yes Mate. Exactly this.
It makes sense to provide clear benefits and punishments.
Thats what you call "Lazy Game Design"
It means that rather than making a Proper System which Links into each other and gives the Player and Logical Checkpoint from which he can Learn the Game.
You simply Create an Unlinked Mechanic which can work this way or that way depending on the Situation to make sure that certain situations are incentivized.
And thats exactly what this Game is doing Constantly.
Its doing Mechanics to Force a Certain Player Behavior and reasoning them with. "Oh well its Magic just Accept it"
[video=youtube;sVgVB3qsySQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVgVB3qsySQ[/video]
2.
Mate once more.
Mines are stuff that you Drop to your Rear to Shake Pursuit.
The moment you Turn around. You have more Efficient Weapons at your Disposal.
So the Claim that these Mines should be Thrown while going Reverse is a Fallacy.
Sorry Man but its Obvious as hell that your Trying to Defend a Bug as an Game Mechanic.
[video=youtube;DutkNSZwM3k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DutkNSZwM3k[/video]
You can call it lazy if you want, but I certainly don't. I think it's rather effective and I like how well balanced they've made it. If you want to complain about handwavium in this game then the entire concept of supercruise is up for grabs. Personally, I enjoy it and that's as far as we can go there.
As for your limited definition of mines, you are treading on the patently absurd. Real mines are not dropped behind you, but rather they are placed over a field, or a road etc etc. in ED they are simple explosives with no thrust. How you choose to use them is up to you. They don't have a friend or foe setting so they are dangerous as soon as they are activated. You can use them in any way you can come up with in which they are effective (or not). In the US, a police department just used a bomb disposal drone to blow up a sniper with a bomb attached to the drone. Frankly, FD's implementation of the mines is downright close to realistic and I'm all for it. In fact, I throw the mines "while going Reverse". By necessity, this means it is not a fallacy. The strategy works. Again, I think you just don't like it and are trying hard at coming up with excuses for why it isn't "right".
As for your limited definition of mines, you are treading on the patently absurd. Real mines are not dropped behind you, but rather they are placed over a field, or a road etc etc. in ED they are simple explosives with no thrust. How you choose to use them is up to you. They don't have a friend or foe setting so they are dangerous as soon as they are activated. You can use them in any way you can come up with in which they are effective (or not). In the US, a police department just used a bomb disposal drone to blow up a sniper with a bomb attached to the drone. Frankly, FD's implementation of the mines is downright close to realistic and I'm all for it. In fact, I throw the mines "while going Reverse". By necessity, this means it is not a fallacy. The strategy works. Again, I think you just don't like it and are trying hard at coming up with excuses for why it isn't "right".
Honestly said. No its not.
No Offense but the System causes Players to be Unable to Learn the Game by Playing it. Because knowing one Mechanic for one Place doesnt mean it works the same Way in the next Situation.
This is an Fallacy and Bad Game Design.
Its Inconsistent and not only makes a very Bad Dent into the Lore and immersion. But also causes an non existent Learning Curve causing Players to get Frustrated about Failing on a Mechanic.
Its Lazy Game Design. And very Bad for the Game because it causes more Damage than it Fixes Problems.
To begin with there is no Reason to give any Benefit towards Leaving the System rather than just going into Supercruise.
If they wanted this to be Case they could have added an Mechanic for Emergency Jump which will take you to a Random System in your Contacts.
Or an even more Logical Choice would be that an Emergency Jump takes you to an Random Location roughly 1 Light Year Away without Risking to Hit an System due to Calculation Errors.
As for the Mines.
No Mate. You are Desperately Trying to Defend a Bugged Game Mechanic and thus make up Ridiculous and Obviously Wrong Uses for it that would never ever Appear.
And no.
I am not Surprised you dont know this. Because Interestingly. People Learn about Mines mostly from WW2
Meaning they Learn about Landmines, Air Mines and Sea Mines. Each of which have their Respective way of Use.
Sea Mines are usually Blocking a Field with Chains so Passing that Line causes the Chains to be hooked up and Drag Mines to you.
Air Mines are usually Dropped from Aircraft with a Parachute so they Explode at Rooftop Level to Maximize the Area Damage.
And Landmines which is the ones your Referring to. Are Mines you Put out to a Field with an Contact Fuse which will Kill someone or Destroy Something if you Drive/Walk over it.
Unfortunately this is not the Original Use of Mines.
The Base Idea for Landmines came from China. Which Buried or Placed Explosives on Importand Chokepoints and then Detonated them by Hand if the Enemy Approached.
Meaning that there was no Automatic Trigger to this.
It was an Timed Bomb that was Dropped towards an Enemy in Expectation of the Enemy Reaching this Place in a Certain Time.
The Naval Use of this came almost 300 Years Later. When Crates with Explosives like this were Thrown at Enemy Ships still using a Timed Trigger of course.
The First Real Mine came from the United States during the Independence War.
And unlike what you Claim. This was (like the Mines we got Ingame) an Active Ship Weapon which was Used in Combat and not Buried Beforehand.
""
American David Bushnell invented the first practical mine, for use against the British in the American War of Independence.[8] It was a watertight keg filled with gunpowder that was floated toward the enemy, detonated by a sparking mechanism if it struck a ship. It was used on the Delaware River as a drift mine.[9]
""
Ok History Session Over.
Mate no Offense. But what your doing there is Fanboyism. Your Defending a Bug to be a Feature.
If this is indeed a Feature its a Bad Implementation. Because any Modern Combat Jet has Security Systems so his Weapons dont Trigger if they are still facing into the own Vehicle.
An Spaceship from the 23th Century Equipped by an Professional Outfitting Dock Failing to Inform you that these Weapons should not be Fired Fronatally.
Moreover without an Security Mechanic to make sure its only Fired in a Certain Situation where it makes Sense is Ridiculous.
Needless to say that this would be entirely Stupid Based on Current Game Mechanics and Controls. Because you can only Define 2 Buttons for Weapons to Fire. (Which is Pitiful for a Game nowdays) which means that you dont really have the Controls available to make any Sense in having Weapons for Different Situations.
It's rather telling that you resort to name calling "fanfoyism" once you run out of arguments. I learned the game by playing it (making your first argument entirely moot). Insta mapping an emergency jump would be as handwavium as anything else (unless you take into it the risk that the player might be stuck and never be able to jump back out again). Death in the game is a massive bit of handwavium, for example (because it doesn't happen). I don't see you discussing that. To be honest a lot of your arguments make no sense at all. It's just an emotional plea for them to do what you want because you don't like how it is. Anytime someone points that out you resort to desperate and irrelevant arguments leading to some pathetic insult. Plenty of more lucid discussion to be had so I think you and I are finished here.
goodbye, ignore on.
Your Welcome. And Likewise.
If I want People to somehow Justify something Stupid I watch Simpsons or Southpart. I dont need this in a Forum.
Fanboy Statements are Fanboy Statements.
I cannot help that.
If your Justifying an Bugged Game Mechanic by making up some Ludicrous and Obviously Wrong Reason for it. Then Sorry but thats Called Fanboyism.
As for your Comment. Sorry Man. But I have made an Argument each time I posted.
Meanwhile you are Spending way more Time attacking and Commenting my Person than you do actually making any Argument.
You are for most Part Cherry Picking a Single Line out of my Post. Completely Ignoring all Arguments of my Posts. Attempting to Repeat the Discussion Senselessly over and over by more or less trying to make it look like the Arguments you cannot Refute dont Exist.
Which is an very Poor Tactic. And Heck its a Fact which really gives me a Good Laugh when you of all People Accuse me of being Out of Arguments.
Just because you Ignore them doesnt mean they aint there.
Also
I am saying what I think. Thats a Trademark of mine.
And Sorry. But what your doing is Desperately Attempting to somehow Justify something that does not make sense to somehow define it as an Feature when its actually a Bug.
And well Sorry to be Blunt. But that is exactly what People call a Fanboy.
Your so Blinded by your Love for the Game that you cannot Accept the Idea of something being Wrong about it. Thus you will see a Reasonable Excuse for something even in the most Ridiculous Scenario.
Mines are Bugged.
They are NOT working like Intended.
To begin with if you check the Mine Launcher in the Game. You see very Fast. That the Entire Idea behind this Mine Launcher. Is to Shoot out Mines away from your Ship Hull so they can Throw Mines from an Frontal Hardpoint into an Trajectory where it will not Collide with your Hull.
And well guess what. Its not Working. Its B U G G E D.
And yes we are Finished here for Sure. Becuase I.ll Proceed to Add you to the Ignore List.
People who only comment my Person and for most Part just Ignore Arguments are not worth the Time it Takes to Answer.
I am done Wasting my Breath and Effort to bring Detailed Arguments and Reasoning to someone who will apparently not read it. And instead just Quote One Line from the Post and Limit the Entire Discussion to that One Line while Pretending that the remaining Post did not Exist.
Greetz Sun
If I want People to somehow Justify something Stupid I watch Simpsons or Southpart. I dont need this in a Forum.
Fanboy Statements are Fanboy Statements.
I cannot help that.
If your Justifying an Bugged Game Mechanic by making up some Ludicrous and Obviously Wrong Reason for it. Then Sorry but thats Called Fanboyism.
As for your Comment. Sorry Man. But I have made an Argument each time I posted.
Meanwhile you are Spending way more Time attacking and Commenting my Person than you do actually making any Argument.
You are for most Part Cherry Picking a Single Line out of my Post. Completely Ignoring all Arguments of my Posts. Attempting to Repeat the Discussion Senselessly over and over by more or less trying to make it look like the Arguments you cannot Refute dont Exist.
Which is an very Poor Tactic. And Heck its a Fact which really gives me a Good Laugh when you of all People Accuse me of being Out of Arguments.
Just because you Ignore them doesnt mean they aint there.
Also
I am saying what I think. Thats a Trademark of mine.
And Sorry. But what your doing is Desperately Attempting to somehow Justify something that does not make sense to somehow define it as an Feature when its actually a Bug.
And well Sorry to be Blunt. But that is exactly what People call a Fanboy.
Your so Blinded by your Love for the Game that you cannot Accept the Idea of something being Wrong about it. Thus you will see a Reasonable Excuse for something even in the most Ridiculous Scenario.
Mines are Bugged.
They are NOT working like Intended.
To begin with if you check the Mine Launcher in the Game. You see very Fast. That the Entire Idea behind this Mine Launcher. Is to Shoot out Mines away from your Ship Hull so they can Throw Mines from an Frontal Hardpoint into an Trajectory where it will not Collide with your Hull.
And well guess what. Its not Working. Its B U G G E D.
And yes we are Finished here for Sure. Becuase I.ll Proceed to Add you to the Ignore List.
People who only comment my Person and for most Part just Ignore Arguments are not worth the Time it Takes to Answer.
I am done Wasting my Breath and Effort to bring Detailed Arguments and Reasoning to someone who will apparently not read it. And instead just Quote One Line from the Post and Limit the Entire Discussion to that One Line while Pretending that the remaining Post did not Exist.
Greetz Sun
Your Welcome. And Likewise.
Fanboy Statements are Fanboy Statements.
I cannot help that.
If your Justifying an Bugged Game Mechanic by making up some Ludicrous and Obviously Wrong Reason for it. Then Sorry but thats Called Fanboyism.
As for your Comment. Sorry Man. But I have made an Argument each time I posted.
Meanwhile you are Spending way more Time attacking and Commenting my Person than you do actually making any Argument.
You are for most Part Cherry Picking a Single Line out of my Post. Completely Ignoring all Arguments of my Posts. Attempting to Repeat the Discussion Senselessly over and over by more or less trying to make it look like the Arguments you cannot Refute dont Exist.
Which is an very Poor Tactic. And Heck its a Fact which really gives me a Good Laugh when you of all People Accuse me of being Out of Arguments.
Just because you Ignore them doesnt mean they aint there.
Also
I am saying what I think. Thats a Trademark of mine.
And Sorry. But what your doing is Desperately Attempting to somehow Justify something that does not make sense to somehow define it as an Feature when its actually a Bug.
And well Sorry to be Blunt. But that is exactly what People call a Fanboy.
Your so Blinded by your Love for the Game that you cannot Accept the Idea of something being Wrong about it. Thus you will see a Reasonable Excuse for something even in the most Ridiculous Scenario.
Mines are Bugged.
They are NOT working like Intended.
To begin with if you check the Mine Launcher in the Game. You see very Fast. That the Entire Idea behind this Mine Launcher. Is to Shoot out Mines away from your Ship Hull so they can Throw Mines from an Frontal Hardpoint into an Trajectory where it will not Collide with your Hull.
And well guess what. Its not Working. Its B U G G E D.
And yes we are Finished here for Sure. Becuase I.ll Proceed to Add you to the Ignore List.
People who only comment my Person and for most Part just Ignore Arguments are not worth the Time it Takes to Answer.
I am done Wasting my Breath and Effort to bring Detailed Arguments and Reasoning to someone who will apparently not read it. And instead just Quote One Line from the Post and Limit the Entire Discussion to that One Line while Pretending that the remaining Post did not Exist.
Greetz Sun
Yeah, you're way off the mark there mate. There's no reasoning with you. Ignore list it is.
Yttrium can be found easily on the surface of planets, you don't need to kill anyone for that. Do you even play this game ?
<--- has been Doing massive Surface Mining and has Found all kinds of Rare Materials. But has never even once Yttrium.
Mighty RNG Sama is Greeting you. Because thanks to the Randomness you can sometimes find stuff very fast. Or Spend hours Searching and never Find even a Single Piece of it.
I do think however that the more Importand Part he wants to Point out is. That you are Forced to do certain Jobs to get Materials.
Lets say I am Playing a Lawful Bounty Hunter.
Which means that I got my Combat Viper Outfitted and want to keep it this way.
I dont want to do Mining. Much less Surface Mining.
I dont want to do Transport Missions or Trading.
I dont want to do Base Raids and Salvage Missions.
I dont want to Kill Authority Forces or Fight in Conflict Zones.
What I want to do is Bounty Hunting.
So my only Source of Materials is Destroying Criminal Ships with a Bounty on their Head. And doing Courier and Killing Missions.
This means that I am never going to get certain Upgrades at all.
And even among the Upgrades I might Possibly get. I will need Forever to gather the Materials and would likely need 100-200 Hours Playtime to get 1-2 of them to Grade 5.
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It cannot be "easily found". There is no skill involved. It's not about difficulty. It can be "randomly found" with no way for the player to do anything about it. That is plain dumb and makes no sense at all.
I play Elite: Dangerous. Blazing my own trail. I'm hardly ever playing the lifeless driving simulator for sand buggies which is part of the game. Would you like it to be necessary for gathering Materials to play CQC? It's part of the game too! Why is playing Arena not mandatory for Engineers upgrades? Makes just as much sense as finding things on planets, randomly, which cannot be bought or traded, ever. You can buy a variety of things made from steel, but there's no iron. A magical unicorn comes along and turns iron into steel, certainly.
Force player to do things they don't like to get upgrades which are handy (in competitive cases darn near vital) for the activities players enjoy! It'll be fun! For sure! How about: No.
No one should need to mine 500t of ore to get armor/hull upgrades. That is plain cruel. How would the engineer be able to tell how much a player mined anyway? Makes no sense. At all. It's needlessly tedious. And it isn't as if a stronger hull would make any difference for a miner in combat when his enemy can just wipe out his thrusters or powerplant. What kind of miner would sacrifice cargo/limpet space for HRPs? No one. It's absolute non-sense.
//edit: It would be great if miners actually received a buff for hardness, so the initial idea is quite alright, good even - but this way, it won't work. Bulkheads don't protect modules, last time i checked. Neither to HRPs. To achieve the desired effect, Miners need the Mods which make their modules stronger - but they cannot get these through mining
They will need to either explore or smuggle for the invite, charming a mafia mob, and to bounty hunt and kill combat/military ships for the Materials because not all can be acquired through missions (and it'd take a ridiculous amount of luck to get the required and possible-to-get Materials via mining-missions) - - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
So, here we have a bounty hunter. What's wrong with that? Nothing! Just let players do what they want and blaze their own trail. It's the flippin' slogan of the game for crying out loud, as pointed out before in this thread by participants in the discussion. Making a game feel like work does not make a a good game. It suffocates it.
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If you wing up with me now I could get you Yttrium in 30 minutes, of course there is an element of randomness to it, but you can narrow down the search by looking in the correct locations. Either myself and some others are the luckiest guys on this forum, I think it is more likely that we are not landing on any old planet and driving in straight lines for 20 hours.
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I think you stated the issue right there. 5 pieces of yttrium in an hour... That's a lot of time driving around a planet. :\
Thank you kindly for the offer. My girlfriend coaxed into doing some cleaning in my apartment and I pretty much just snuck away from that for a cigarette break as I write this - but thank you for the offer - feel free to add psyantologist as a fwiend and I'll tag along on one of your future trips. Might learn a thing or two. Or twelve.
(I can hardly drive straight lines with the SRV, ..actually xD)
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