UAs, Barnacles and other mysteries Thread 8 - The Canonn

[CMDR-AD]

MOREOVER:
it really is a misfortune, IMHO, that the interpratation of 3.142 is, by misfortune as I said, made of the same four numbers that make the most basic sequence in the universe, I mean: 1,2,3,4.
Really, why is there a need to let us know Pi ?! What use can we do of it?

Well, my thought was/is that Pi was indicating the intended shape of the graphical image in the sound. Upon first decoding, the shape we all are used to seeing was not a circle for me, but a weird egg.

Placing the digits of Pi, even in exact numerical order from top center going clockwise (no need to piece it together from some weird order), and even placed around the circle's edge, as though a guide to what Pi is "circling" should be a circle... helps us place the proper aspect ratio of the graphic as a whole.

Perhaps it is human nature to get rid of the egg shape, even before we might study the message to interpret the 3142 circling the circle as perhaps meaning that.

However, I still think this could be a valid explanation of why they might give us Pi, and for what use it was intended (since the guys who encoded knew it could easily be decoded/rendered as an egg).

Not that this *is* the meaning or reason, but again, a perhaps *why* they might.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

I've gone through Kerrash Landing's video and at around 1:02:45 he states that we found barnacle sites by enhancing the contrast of pictures of planets and were able to see an "X" to mark the spot where they could be found.

https://youtu.be/3QDRdbcYGGs?t=1h2m45s

I don't recall this being a way we found the barnacles (we'd be using it now if it were true, surely?) but as these threads are colossal, searching has been difficult. Can anyone confirm?

Of course, if Kerrash is being economical with the truth here, then perhaps we can discount his statement regarding the crashed alien ships, too?

I believe the planet " X marks the spot" was supposed to be a joke. Cant remember who by

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Must have been a really helpful image then.

Maybe, maybe not. I was just looking to participate and go deeper into a game I like playing. But I don't want to have to use Imgur or anything else for that matter.
I'll leave you lot to it.
All the best.

 

[who?]

Let me say I'm 100% with MadDogMurdock here, and if you check something like 7000 post back, immediately after the first binary interpretation of the symbols, I've immediately raised the same objection. And the difference in spacing is VERY CLEAR.
And it is even easier to note it, because the two pictograms on the left side, the -|- and the | - - are composed by the same "dash'n dots" EXACTLY, that are one | and two -, so their length, the pictograms width, should be exactly the same. That is not. And the left and right margins of the 4 pictos are perfectly aligned, so please, don't tell me there is a distortion.

Using this image as a reference; I think it's impossible to say if the individual horizontal dashes at the bottom are the same length as those above, due to the differences in noise/distortion as you move up to the higher frequencies. But the sequences at the bottom are certainly wider overall, due to increased spacing.

It is worth pointing out that while equal temporal spacing is 'mandated' in Morse, and is generally essential in any time-sensitive synchronous transmission of data, it's not exactly required for a written/visual message such as this.

Why would they make it wider? Well, consider the image above. If the dashes had been any closer, they could have been confused for one long dash; the added separation makes it more clear.

(I'm absolutely not disagreeing with you. It's entirely possibly you're completely correct - the symmetry of those symbols was one of the first things that jumped out to me, as if they mark a frame/page separation from what's below. I just don't like jumping to conclusions. Wallowing in confusion and self-doubt is more my thang..)

 

[destructionist]

So, are they only found in Ross 47? I've checked everywhere before i went to Barnards loop.. couldn't find a single one.. I havn't checked Ross 47.

I have put almost 20 hours into finding one in Ross 47 before I finally found that one today. I will repair my ASP and try again.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

Maybe, maybe not. I was just looking to participate and go deeper into a game I like playing. But I don't want to have to use Imgur or anything else for that matter.
I'll leave you lot to it.
All the best.

For future reference, if we're using spectrograms to theorize the purpose of a message encoded in an incredibly rare commodity, it's possible you might be required to post proof. XD

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I have put almost 20 hours into finding one in Ross 47 before I finally found that one today. I will repair my ASP and try again.

How far away from Wu Guinagi is Ross 47? I'm not at home right now.

 

[John Stoutbeard]

So, are they only found in Ross 47? I've checked everywhere before i went to Barnards loop.. couldn't find a single one.. I havn't checked Ross 47.

From the front page, UP section, you may want to bookmark that spreadsheet for UP sightings:
Systems where UP convoys have been found so far:
(CHECK Cmdr Arguendo's Sheet, with all the sightings.)
__________________
Ross 47
G 99-49
Wolf 294
R CRA NEBULA system BRSO 14 (NOT CONFIRMED)

 

[who?]

I've posted this before but I feel the need to post it again. I want to encourage everyone to take the time to read this. It is a very good insight into the thought process of these kind of messages.

http://activeseti.org/papers/evpatoria07.pdf

I can't stress it enough. If we are to solve this (provided there is something to solve) we need to approach it with a defined ruleset supporting our lines of inquiry. Just as LordZoltan said before, without a specific methodology which prevents rampant speculation all we'll manage to do is to fill time until FD throws the source of this in our face with one of the next updates. Reading this and similar documents is a very good starting point in developing this methodology.

Apparently xcyber posted a more extensive explanation for the Evpatoria message before in the thread and I missed it. Here it is once more for visibility http://www.plover.com/misc/Dumas-Dutil/messages.pdf.

I have to laugh how they changed so much from the 1999 message to the 2003. You'd have to think if aliens ever replied, it would translate to: "Standards, people. Standards!"

The message could be establishing a means of communicating common concepts, whether mathematical (angles, radius, circumference) or astronomical (planetary size, distance from star, declination or argument of periapsis etc.) The former might be more useful in specifying a location on a body's surface; the latter for identifying a body. If this is the introductory page/primer/legend/rosetta stone etc., we'll only ever be guessing until we identify or receive the 'payload' and can start applying it.

 

[Queex]

The line and arc (bottom right, top left) seem reminiscent of right ascension and declination. If we assume that the grid is meant to represent a planet (or starfield viewed from a planet) then those two aspects uniquely define a point in the sky.

The bad news is, of course, that time factors in in a really complicated way, due to orbits and rotations. Maybe some of the other information is meant to provide that baseline?

Come to think of it, ecliptic co-ordinates require fewer stabilising variables.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

For future reference, if we're using spectrograms to theorize the purpose of a message encoded in an incredibly rare commodity, it's possible you might be required to post proof. XD

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How far away from Wu Guinagi is Ross 47? I'm not at home right now.

As I said. That's why I'm staying out of it.
I'll still read the thread but this whole avenue of the game has just lost my interest.
As I said, have fun and best of luck.

 

[LordZoltan]

Well, my thought was/is that Pi was indicating the intended shape of the graphical image in the sound. Upon first decoding, the shape we all are used to seeing was not a circle for me, but a weird egg.

Placing the digits of Pi, even in exact numerical order from top center going clockwise (no need to piece it together from some weird order), and even placed around the circle's edge, as though a guide to what Pi is "circling" should be a circle... helps us place the proper aspect ratio of the graphic as a whole.

Perhaps it is human nature to get rid of the egg shape, even before we might study the message to interpret the 3142 circling the circle as perhaps meaning that.

However, I still think this could be a valid explanation of why they might give us Pi, and for what use it was intended (since the guys who encoded knew it could easily be decoded/rendered as an egg).

Not that this *is* the meaning or reason, but again, a perhaps *why* they might.

Yes this too. the 3142 interpretation, when read clockwise from right, is something almost all of us will jump on as being pi to 3dp, given that almost all of us will have completed secondary level education and wil; have had to use that number.

As you say - a keen eye will see the likely egg-shape in front of them and think 'oh - it's a circle' and switch to log scale.

It leaves the observer in no doubt that they need to treat it as a circle.



Yes - it could mean other things, but no explanation I've seen so far is more convincing, simple, accessible or more logical.

This doesn't mean thay the bottom two symbols' purpose is only to serve as two numbers. The different spacing and symbology could mean that they serve another purpose.

 

[Han_Zen]

I'm going to disagree on the sizing of the pictograms argument mainly because the image is being warped along a logarithmic scale there are bound to be discrepancies in the sizing. The shape of the circle ... etc...

I'm with you on this one, sim.

I don't think the drawing is acurate enough to to detemine anything, by measuring.

It seems more logical to put symbols in the pictogam and the value as a binary or other number.

My most basic interpretation of the symbols (starting top left, clockwise) are:

- vertical arc lenght
- horizontal arc lenght
- radius (always set to 1 when working with angles)
- don't know? Perhaps altitude?

The problem is to know where to start and how to interpret the value.

r=1 is a tell tail to me, but is next one 2 or 1/2. Do I start at North pole, south pole or equator?

 

[gaplant]

So, are they only found in Ross 47? I've checked everywhere before i went to Barnards loop.. couldn't find a single one.. I havn't checked Ross 47.

I don't think we've looked enough to rule out other places... because they're so slow to find, it would take forever to have any kind of confidence that they DONT show up at a certain place.

but yeah only so far ross47 g-99-49 Wolf 294
R CRA NEBULA system BRSO 14 (NOT CONFIRMED)

 

[SpeedMATS]

Thanks for confirming - we will look some more tonight. I spent 2 hours last night driving around the whole area.

So it was on the whitish dirt then with the grey rocks. Not the brownish dirt with the brown rocks. So it wasn't on the "sand" bed but up in the mountains.

It was on face of mountain (grey rock). Estimate 70deg 'ish incline.

why would you crop anything out... whyyyyyy

whyyyyyy?!?!?​

I took the screenshot from the external camera. I could not see the "Organic outcrop" directly from the HUD. Due to the dips and troughs of the mountain I stopped every minute or so to take an external view check and i spotted something green on a ridge ahead.

As i've said before I'm really annoyed about this. If the VR compositor had not crashed and X-55 lose any form of control I would not have had to restart and lose the spawn.

Yes, thats the barnacles you're referring to. They can be targeted now, and scanned.
Url to spreadsheet is on the front page.

Quick list:
Timestamp Nebula Name System + Planet Latitude Longitude
16.01.2016 05:09 Pleiades Nebula Merope 5 C -26.3515 -156.4056
26.06.2016 23:26 Pleiades Nebula Merope 5 C 8.3379 -96.1337
27.06.2016 17:13 Pleiades Nebula Merope 5 C -28.245 -109.5219
19.07.2016 19:14 Pleiades Nebula Merope 5 C -28.77 -114.01

Yep got that (and have been following the puzzles since the start). Not being labelled "Outcrop" but "Organic Outcrop" (but looking like a standard Outcrop) in my left panel under Contacts is what caught my eye. Located at t -26.4637 -156.4498 which is not far from the barnacle site at -26.3515 -156.4056.

If it's new content I may have missed it in the forums/newsletter (I've got 4 little ones that distract me..a lot). But until someone furnishes me with a specific reference to describe an "Organic Outcrop" that resides on grey rock on a 70deg 'ish incline, I'm not leaving the mountain until I get a re-spawn and if I've got to do this in VR, and throw up, then that's what Ill do.

For science!

 

[John Stoutbeard]

From the front page, UP section, you may want to bookmark that spreadsheet for UP sightings:
Systems where UP convoys have been found so far:
(CHECK Cmdr Arguendo's Sheet, with all the sightings.)
__________________
Ross 47
G 99-49
Wolf 294
R CRA NEBULA system BRSO 14 (NOT CONFIRMED)

I don't think we've looked enough to rule out other places... because they're so slow to find, it would take forever to have any kind of confidence that they DONT show up at a certain place.

but yeah only so far ross47 g-99-49

I have to quote my self just make sure we stop spreading inaccurate information. Please check front page UP section.

 

[destructionist]

How far away from Wu Guinagi is Ross 47? I'm not at home right now.

238.27LY

 

[gaplant]

I'm with you on this one, sim.

I don't think the drawing is acurate enough to to detemine anything, by measuring.

It seems more logical to put symbols in the pictogam and the value as a binary or other number.

My most basic interpretation of the symbols (starting top left, clockwise) are:

- vertical arc lenght
- horizontal arc lenght
- radius (always set to 1 when working with angles)
- don't know? Perhaps altitude?

The problem is to know where to start and how to interpret the value.

r=1 is a tell tail to me, but is next one 2 or 1/2. Do I start at North pole, south pole or equator?

Yeah this is where I ran out of places to go. If that radius line is there to define a unit, then there's other lines that don't match it, like that arc or the two spikes.

I'm starting to think this is a version of the voyager or arecibo messages, drawn up by an artist who read about them on wikipedia and doesn't understand them. It's like the fake computer graphics in movies games or tv, extra lines to look spacy.
(and before someone says it YES THAT WOULD SUCK WORSE THAN SPOILERS ON A COBRA)

 

[LordZoltan]

Yeah this is where I ran out of places to go. If that radius line is there to define a unit, then there's other lines that don't match it, like that arc or the two spikes.

I'm starting to think this is a version of the voyager or arecibo messages, drawn up by an artist who read about them on wikipedia and doesn't understand them. It's like the fake computer graphics in movies games or tv, extra lines to look spacy.
(and before someone says it YES THAT WOULD SUCK WORSE THAN SPOILERS ON A COBRA)

and I seriously seriously doubt that's the case

 

[gaplant]

I have to quote my self just make sure we stop spreading inaccurate information. Please check front page UP section.

good catch thanks, I edited my original post

 

[Luchs]

Hi, another idea.
I hope nobody else posted this before...

Surely you know the game "Simon" with the 4 colors and you have to press the right colors in the right sequence.

Following things have to be done near Merope 5c

I-- = 1st e.g. make a Detailed Surface Scan
-I- = 2nd make a Discovery Scan
--I = 3rd ? I don't know, perhaps the chaff launcher ?
.)) = 4th use your ECM

Till now we started with the the Discovery Scan and the Probe told us we are wrong. Like the noise of this old game told us when we pressed the wrong color.


I don't have a probe and i don't own a ship to mount all these tools