News NPC AI update
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
You are correct and Elite should be fun for everyone wither they are dedicated traders, explorers, or chase and twitchy trigger types. I had to think about how different in approach to gameplay different people have, my nephews and nieces for instant, play Monopoly differently amongst themselves then when playing with their uncle and aunt.
Actually its easier now than ever. I simply drop out of supercruise into an empty instance in space and logout or land on a planet in an empty area and log out. Game saved and safe from anything till the next session. I thought that I had to be at a base or space station for that and that logging out in the "wilds" was akin to a slumbering fish in an open ocean, you never know what or where the current would bring your way.
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Something not right, jumped on ED today did update thingy.
Omg, did a mission got dragged outta hyperspace by a fed drop ship.
Got my kicked im driving a FDL, this FDS ran rings around me, when its supposed to handle like a piano, battered me big time, till i managed to get out via FSD
OMG this cant be right, NPC was Master im Dangerous and it moved like an Eagle stuck right behind me, the guide says it cant be that nimble as a score of 2 was given for its handling.
Stumped ?????
Omg, did a mission got dragged outta hyperspace by a fed drop ship.
Got my kicked im driving a FDL, this FDS ran rings around me, when its supposed to handle like a piano, battered me big time, till i managed to get out via FSD
OMG this cant be right, NPC was Master im Dangerous and it moved like an Eagle stuck right behind me, the guide says it cant be that nimble as a score of 2 was given for its handling.
Stumped ?????
The FDS changes direction well but has a low top speed. Are you comparing to 2.1.0.4 & saying you think it's even more aggressive, or was this your first encounter since the 2.1 change to the AI?
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This is an important piece of information. Driver777 thanks for sharing. Personally I was not aware of this.
So the poll was among the people participating in the beta testing? An issue as serious as the difficulty of the game was decided among a group of people that is probably biased? By biased I mean that most of the people participating in the beta testing were probably experienced players and they were seeking new challenges. This had very little chance to be representative of all the ED players. Unless I misunderstood what you said, this can explain a lot of what we've seen the last couple of months.
Even though I doubt we'll ever learn, I'm so curious to know the total number of hours played by the number of players for the last 3 months...
Son ... Let me tell you on the first days of the game back in 2014 there where already very good pilots posting their deeds, believe me the beta testing did not give them time to get that good, they where just naturals, it's in their blood, NPCS should mimic real player capabilities, if we had 200 million people playing the game frontier would not need to have npc's in the game or at least just 10 % of what it has now, but the reality is not that so ...
And you assume that a novice player has the same npc experience than you ... that is not true, if doubt me reset your self and start over ... than come here and make a log of what it is playing this game has a new comer!
What are players thinking after the last update of July 30? Did AI get seriously nerfed, or am I alone? I'm a Dangerous level in a well-kitted Python, and Dangerous to Elite EVERYTHING (except for 'condas, which are surprisingly easy anyway after the update) are so easy to destroy it's made that part of the game downright boring again. A Deadly FAS yesterday was easier to kill than a Competent Cobra was a week ago. A Deadly FDL yesterday was nothing more than toying around for a few minutes, easier to kill than a Harmless Viper was a week ago. The RESs are so ' boring it's crazy - Dangerous to Elite are hardly even firing back sometimes. Has anybody else noticed this?
I have not noticed any significant difference in NPC behaviour/ability, when I am playing well I can usually beat single opponents sometimes quite handily when I am more like my usual rubbish self I run and hide behind the nearest authority wing of Anacondas when I spot that the glare of the sun had hidden that the lone FAS I had targeted was actually in a wing of three. The problem is that I am still improving my ship(s) and skills so how can I be sure that they have got worse when I might be a more effective combat pilot now in my FDL than I was a couple of weeks ago in my Asp Explorer.
There might be a bigger range of NPC skills around but I don't take notes as I am playing so can't be sure.
It is all subjective, of course, but I can say without reservation of any kind that the AI has become ridiculously easy to beat since the update July 30. It's pathetic. Two Expert Vipers would have been really hard for me to beat in my Python a week ago. Just now got interdicted by two and I destroyed them both in less than a minute. One of the great things that had happened with this game was how hard AI'd become after the expansion, making us have to think and strategize, do systems and modules checks, and to be ready. Now it's back to sheer boredom. Alas, they've robbed me of the only reason I could think of to play! Ah well. It would be so sweet if FDev could just leave perfection be.
I'm one of the ones sitting in the 'too hard' camp, but I'd like to think we could both be happy. Personally I find the random interdictions frustrating, but enjoy a good fight in, say a RES. If the interdictions were to be much reduced but the challenge were still available in certain areas or systems, would that still appeal to you?
That would appeal to me, yes, and that's something I've thought about. I'll give an example of what I'm experiencing here, in case anybody who might have some influence or whatever reads these. I'm 16+ Dangerous in a pretty strong Python, 800 MJ shields, shield cells (which I don't have to use anymore), two large gimballed beams, one large fixed beam, and two modded missile racks (high capacity magazines). Five minutes ago I fought a Deadly FAS, killed it in 25 seconds without even trying. Cat and mouse game with it. I just finished fighting an Elite FAS and destroyed it less than a minute, again no challenge whatsoever. A week ago I'd have had a major fight with the Deadly, neck and neck all the way, and I more than likely would have wound up running from the Elite (if I hadn't run right from the start) because I'd have been losing. If I'm wrong about this, so be it. I'll just have to get my Asp out for fights, but I know I'm right about how docile they've become.
The happy medium seems like a huge challenge for the developers. If they could get the interdiction thing solved, and convince players to choose their poison on missions, I think we'd have it.
So we did a 360 from 2.0 then?
If the AI became docile as it is then the problem with the pvp’s will resurface as it has and the only positive is to make billions with impunity, I have to remind you that Elite was about a cutthroat universe that emphasize in danger, it’s on the cover of the game.
Again the problem is not the ai but the fact that the systems are not high - medium security or otherwise.
Truckers can sell their cargo in high-med security systems and avoid combat and interdiction going to or passing through anarchy or low sec., but how they will make their billions (robigo, ceos, sothis….) without having to fight so nerf the ai.
Since 2.1.03 pvp against easy players began again so does combat login because they nerf the ai so much as their pvp silent or dedicate builds can roam the systems
You seem to be arguing the same point jdiliix & I agree on?
Why does it matter to you how others play in the sandbox? If someone just wants to collect all the ships good luck to them, if they want to be an infamous combat pilot good luck to them too. The Combat pilot doesn't have to do much PvE to enjoy themselves, they can have fun in a Viper. Should the ship collector have to be a top gun pilot?
Once again the "dangerous" in the game name argument. This is getting very repetitive... I have a proposal. Why don't FD create a whole new game, naming "Elite, mostly harmless"? I'll be very happy to uninstall this "Dangerous" game and buy that one. Honestly.
I don't see the AI being too easy. Yes if you go to a RES site and there are 10 ships hitting one Anaconda and you start shooting it too, it's easy credit and rank. I do wonder what's the point of that, but it's been that way from before 2.0 so I guess it serves some purpose. But personally I still can come against very challenging opponents. I just need to stick to the commodity mission rewards and trouble will find me soon.
Ok, apparently I'm one of the people that don't want to play in a cutthroat universe. I don't seek life challenges in a game. I only play 2-3 hours per day max anyway. Real challenges are in the real world IMHO. But everyone is entitled to have fun with the game, no matter what "fun" means for everyone. I have said before and I'll repeat it. Special condition situations should be added to the game, to make it more difficult. The AI is surely very capable of making anyone's life very difficult. Let the people that want trouble to find it. Create situations where very strong AI opponents will find you and create appropriate rewards if you make it out of these situations alive. No need to impose that to everyone but the people that want it, they should have a way to find it.
I fully agree!
The other day a friend and I spent hours researching the most profitable techniques for mining because we want to gather resources to explore the galaxy and mining was one of the ways we study. Find the best system and the best ore to work, spent more than 12 hours by mining and got a little more than 50 tons of Painite and draw the best route for sale when we were interdicted from system to system to the point of arrival, where already we were without shield and the NPC could shoot my friend's Anaconda and it is gone ~ 8 million in ore load over 10 million rebuy for Anaconda. In order ... days of research and hours and hours of mining to lose it all in seconds. I confess that I was exhausting and I in the place of my friend owns the Anaconda would have uninstalled the game.
We tried to trade, tried everything, everything has been the same, repetitive and predictable interdictions followed by NPC threats chat and more losses than profits. Already bount hurtir nor will I comment because it has been the most stressful experience of all.
I would like the game developers reflect on how much is exhausting lose the things we have achieved in the game for a machine that will not use it. Is that contributes to the game's growth?
I agree that the game should bring problems for those looking for but it has been impossible to carry out any activity without having to engage in combat and be destuido by an NPC.
In my opinion the interdictions by NPCs should be extremely rare with lawless areas of exceptions and even in lawless areas, should be rarer interdictions by NPC's
I also think that the NPCs should not have access to equipment engineers at all and specially regarding weapons! I even incoherent talk of balance if there resources to improve weapons that are restricted to those who purchase expansions. I think valid improvement to FSD, Thrusters and defense equipment but not for weapons!
The NPC plays an important role in the game to complete the lack of players in certain activities to keep the economy of the systems but definitely have noticed that people hate combat against NPC's that carry better equipment that your still above may provide their moviementos and its mission is to prevent you from doing any activity in the game. Definitely this is not fun!
Please Frontier, want to have fun and not get frustrated!
50T of painite for 12 hr work is quite low productivity. I typically see that much for 2 hrs. I mine at Delkar 7 in a wing with prospector limpets and at least 5 collector limpets. I mine in a combat fitted Python or Corvette so pirates are never a problem and add interest to the game.
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Aha - that's what those crazy lumps of green stuff being thrown at my ship at a great rate were... Got knobbled in seconds three times in a row! Glad its not *just* that I'm not that good a player ;-)
I'm concerned, but less concerned about how often and predictable getting interdicted by an NPC is ... instead I'm more concerned (to the point where I put the game down for 2 months) that the NPCs still seem to kick my ass. When I'm in a combat rated Anaconda up to the neck in shield boosters and I killed in under 1 minute by an Imperial Courier...
Look, I love the combat.. I love the danger. I don't want the NPCs to be easy. But if I'm driving around in a tank and a Honda Civic can kill me in short order... I'm feeling like something might be unbalanced.
Look, I love the combat.. I love the danger. I don't want the NPCs to be easy. But if I'm driving around in a tank and a Honda Civic can kill me in short order... I'm feeling like something might be unbalanced.
If you dont mind my asking, what is your combat rank? I have some qualms about ranking up in combat, right now the npc's arent much trouble, but im betting that will change.