The Galaxy - Is its size now considered to be a barrier to gameplay by the Developers?

[AnnuverScotinExile]

So I've just caught up with the thread. Thanks for everyone's input, as I've said before we do keep it in mind. There will be further discussions on the feature, although I do still feel that adding a time delay weakens the feature more than it solves any problems. One issue does resonate, and that's how far the jump can be, so we'll look into that. We still reserve the right to disagree with you

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The cost of the feature is also a balance, one that we'll refine through beta. Obviously we need to keep it accessible.

Michael

Thanks, Michael. The feedback is very important to us, even for, or perhaps especially for, those that disagree.

 

[Arubeto]

So I've just caught up with the thread. Thanks for everyone's input, as I've said before we do keep it in mind. There will be further discussions on the feature, although I do still feel that adding a time delay weakens the feature more than it solves any problems. One issue does resonate, and that's how far the jump can be, so we'll look into that. We still reserve the right to disagree with you

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The cost of the feature is also a balance, one that we'll refine through beta. Obviously we need to keep it accessible.

Michael

Thanks a lot for reading through this monster of a thread, very much appreciated!

 

[Robert Maynard]

So I've just caught up with the thread. Thanks for everyone's input, as I've said before we do keep it in mind. There will be further discussions on the feature, although I do still feel that adding a time delay weakens the feature more than it solves any problems. One issue does resonate, and that's how far the jump can be, so we'll look into that. We still reserve the right to disagree with you

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The cost of the feature is also a balance, one that we'll refine through beta. Obviously we need to keep it accessible.

Michael

Thanks Michael - it will be interesting to see what Beta brings - however there is the obvious disconnect between Beta and when the feature goes live - I don't expect that players care about CMDR progress in Beta (as it is wiped) so it may be that use of insta-transfer in Beta is not representative of use in the live game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So I've just caught up with the thread. Thanks for everyone's input, as I've said before we do keep it in mind. There will be further discussions on the feature, although I do still feel that adding a time delay weakens the feature more than it solves any problems. One issue does resonate, and that's how far the jump can be, so we'll look into that. We still reserve the right to disagree with you

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The cost of the feature is also a balance, one that we'll refine through beta. Obviously we need to keep it accessible.

Michael

Thanks Michael. My biggest gripe with the 3D printing is the Engineered modules shouldn't be able to be 3D printed, if it where the case, then we would have these modules on the markets and the engineers would just disappear. It just doesn't make much sense or logic. Also how do you beam that information over to the other station so quickly. We can't get commodity lists from station right next to us until we dock.

Also 3D printing would just creat a duplicate so in the end we would have thousands of ships scattered all over the place. A Delay can't weaken a feature that isn't already present in the first place, but instant can certainly weaken other features you have in the game such as missions and the BGS.

 

[Michael Brookes]

He just no longer cares about making a game he'd play. Instant transfer comes, obviously from Brookes and making game accessible to more players, and Braben doesn't care. He talks about physics, but he is no longer involved in the game deeply. Producers and other execs with no soul took over.

David is very involved in the development of the game - he sits behind me

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Michael

 

[NeilF]

I do wonder if Insta-Ship-Transport will turn out to be another External View... ie: Before External View was implemented, many CMDRs heralded its request to be added as a significant issue; An immersion breaking, game mechanic breaking feature that would undermine the game...

So I wonder if Insta-Ship-Transport will infact just prove to just be a non-issue when introduced.


That said, I do wonder - like many others - if it'll change the dynamics of the game. It makes little sense to fly anywhere of any distance in anything other than your "taxi ship" (Anaconda or Asp with huge jump range), and then insta-call what ever ship you need.

Limit By Ship Size?
Is there any merit to the notion that insta-ship-transport is limited by ship size? ie: Smaller ships can be insta-transported, but larger ships take time? ie: ETA minutes = DistanceInLy/JumpRange...

So the "trading exploit" mentioned wouldn't be quite so obvious, as your trading ship would take time to arrive...

 

[MarcusKross]

Lol... yes I apologise for the expletive reference....... :x

Nah it is no problem for me just a friendly warning, i got banned for less

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I do wonder if Insta-Ship-Transport will turn out to be another External View... ie: Before External View was implemented, many CMDRs heralded its request to be added as a significant issue; An immersion breaking, game mechanic breaking feature that would undermine the game...

Oh I do hope so, since FD, very sensibly, did NOT add the external view that people were asking for, but the limited, close to the ship external view that we ended up with. The worries that people (largely FD people) had about flying with the external view did not appear because they limited the scope.

Here we have it the other way round in that FD are proposing the wider scope thing and we (in general, I know it is contentious) are opposing it. But if the limited its use to avoid the wider issues, I would be happier than getting instant magic.

 

[MarcusKross]

David is very involved in the development of the game - he sits behind me

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Michael

You are not that ginger.

Ok well maybe you are.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Limit By Ship Size?
Is there any merit to the notion that insta-ship-transport is limited by ship size? ie: Smaller ships can be insta-transported, but larger ships take time? ie: ETA minutes = DistanceInLy/JumpRange...

So the "trading exploit" mentioned wouldn't be quite so obvious, as your trading ship would take time to arrive...

Why limit ship size to adversely affect traders specifically? To do so would be to give a further advantage to small ships that may also have short ranges.

We can expect optimal short range combat builds to spring up anywhere in the bubble at a moments notice (which seems to be the reason for the feature's existence given the oft mentioned "What if I'm in my Type 9 and I see a Combat Zone - I want to summon my Vulture" example).

 

[Boff'in]

So I've just caught up with the thread. Thanks for everyone's input, as I've said before we do keep it in mind. There will be further discussions on the feature, although I do still feel that adding a time delay weakens the feature more than it solves any problems. One issue does resonate, and that's how far the jump can be, so we'll look into that. We still reserve the right to disagree with you

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The cost of the feature is also a balance, one that we'll refine through beta. Obviously we need to keep it accessible.

Michael

You covered many of the points I've been making. Congratulations
Gameplay wise, a delay does nothing.
I'll wager wrinkles to the feasibility does (range / border crossings / system states).

My learned reaction from the forums is that the only inherent risk that the Transfer feature can be abused (people bypassing blockades (whether CG or PP, with one ship and swapping out for another).

However the main issue which many discussion dance around, is that the transfer feature is a kick in the Emotions.
Some People reasoning doesn't have a place in logic, or lore.

The galaxy is large, scary, and tough.
For almost 2 years, jump ranges and ship builds have been core to the gameplay experience. This is something people are drawn to and enjoy.

People PRIDE themselves on their ships build (wrangling ability vs power vs mass vs jump-range)
People PRIDE themselves over the journey they have made in some odd builds.
People have SUFFERED and persevered. Just flying accross the bubble - for reason(s).


This feature (in it's instant form) invalidates that sense of accomplishment of 2 years of gaming around these core concepts that drew them to the game in the first place.

So wrinkles are required to satisfy the emotions of the current mechanics.

 

[Shadowdancer]

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Everyone has an immoral soul!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You covered many of the points I've been making. Congratulations
Gameplay wise, a delay does nothing. Wrinkles to the feasibility does.

My learned reaction is that there is a inherent risk that the Transfer feature can be abused (people bypassing blockades (whether CG or PP, with one ship and swapping out for another).

But the main issue which many discussion dances around, is that the transfer feature is a kick in the Emotions.
Some People reasoning doesn't have a place in logic, or lore.

The galaxy is large, scary, and tough.
For almost 2 years, jump ranges and ship builds have been core to the gameplay experience. This is something people are drawn to and enjoy.

People PRIDE themselves on their ships build (wrangling ability vs power vs mass vs jump-range)
People PRIDE themselves over the journey they have made in some odd builds.
People have SUFFERED and persevered. Bringing fighters to CG's.


This feature (in it's instant form) invalidates that sense of accomplishment of 2 years of gaming.

So wrinkles are required to satisfy the emotions, not any specific lore.

Except the problems it can cause with the mission restriction which will become meaningless and the effects it has on the BGS. It's already stupidly easy to manipulate the BGS, this will make it even easier.

 

[Robert Maynard]

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Everyone has an immoral soul!

Surely you mean "immortal"?

 

[Kicks]

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Mitterand Hollow remembers.

 

[Comrade Error]

David is very involved in the development of the game - he sits behind me

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Michael

*Throws holywater.. I mean piracy!*

 

[Mephane]

I see that people don't get that printing thing, which is a shame as it is used quite a bit anyway - for example food cartridges. We can review and change if needed, to be honest the feature is what is important in this instance. Yes, I appreciate the difference in scale, and as I mentioned before we're not talking about a single machine that just spits out a ship, it combines more economical processes as well.

The issue with entire ship 3D printing is less the printing per se, than all the other things in the game. If every shipyard has the capability to 3D print any ship and any equipment, then the outfitter at any shipyard can produce and sell any module, and every shipyard could produce and sell any ship.

So for consistency, every station that has a shipyard, would have to be like Jameson Memorial, selling all ships and modules.

And if we can 3D print entire ships with all their modules - even more so: it would be commonplace - doing the same for most commodities would be the most logical and economical. So why are we still hauling mining machinery and crop harvesters around, and not the material cartridges for the 3D printers?

But beyond all that, I think for many players it simply feels better if the ships are lore-wise moved by NPC pilots (hired by the starport it comes from) than simply being the Nth replica of the replica, and this is regardless of whether the gameplay reflects this or is instantaneous for maximum convenience.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

As for me having no soul - that's probably true.

Confirmed .. saw it in a movie once ...

 

[Cosmos]

David is very involved in the development of the game - he sits behind me

Well on his next talk about science perhaps he can show to the world how he's managed to create a teleportation device... I wouldn't put it past him because if anyone can break the laws of physics and space time I'd wager it were he.. I believe in you David.. [haha]

 

[Comrade Error]

Surely you mean "immortal"?

No he ment immoral.

Did ya'll remember your daily sacrifice for Satan today?