Why I think Elite Dangerous is going to dominate the Space MMO/Space Sim genre

[1500]

But really all this talk of testing does not really apply to SC and CIG, see the PU is not for testing that is what the PTU is for, or is it the Avocados. See CIG have two layers of public alpha testing before it even gets to the PU.

ED is doing a very good job at hitting that MMO Sim style gameplay, if it is a little light on the MMO. Although if we were to talk about just MMO space ship games then I would say EVE online is better then ED, more content, does an amazing job at conveying a living breathing world (at least from the players, the NPC's are bad). Its main problem is that its not really what you would consider a "space sim".

ED on the other hand does "space sim" amazingly well, but the MMO aspects are not that great. It seems that FD are having a difficult time deciding what exactly ED is going to be. Is it going to be a hard grind type of game, or an easy game. Then how much of it is PVP and how much is it PVE. They add community goals something you would expect would be for people to work together for, but then they wanted players to compete for them. Same happened, but worse, with power play. Takes a long time to move around, but now we will have instant travel. Always online but minimum social features at launch.

Perhaps the biggest problem that I see happening with ED is that FD is very focused on adding mechanics instead of flushing the current mechanics out. And when they do add mechanics they are on the shallow side. I would love to see the mechanics already in the game flushed out. I actually hope that season 3 is not walking around, the amount of work and requirements for that are just massive and just getting something basic is a major undertaking.

 

[Sunleader]

Wrong again, I code every day.

Erm Yeah.
Did I mention that I am the Emperor of China ?

No Offense Mate.
But if your actually a Programmer I would not want to use the Interface your making. Given that apparently your limiting yourself towards only showing the Customer an Product that in your Eyes is already Finished.
That sets you up for Failure. Because it means that by the time you show others your Product, changing it would be the same as redoing it entirely.

See Mate. If you really are a Programmer Dude. Your exactly the Type of Programmer I hate. Because I am an Electrician for Industrial Machinery Specialized on Automatization. And this means that one of my most common Jobs. Is to Fix up the stuff we get from People like you, who think that they should do internal testing and then deliver the product to us based on their testing without us being involved in the process, to an working condition where we can actually use it.

This Approach of not showing their work before its "finished" in their eyes. Is exactly the reason why in the Field this Stuff often ends up not working and us Electricians then ending up somehow improvising the parts to get it working somehow.
Good example being an Machinery being Loaded and while being loaded maintaining the Intersection during Movement so the Loading doesnt miss. Unfortunately the Expert Programmer did just what your doing apparently. Instead of giving us the Unfinished Product and Testing certain Parts of it they did all Testing Internally. And then thanks to their Internal Testing ending up not Reflecting the actual Situation they forgot something as simple as that the Loading will Push down the Ramp. Ending up the Automatic Ramming the Ramp into the Floor over and over. And then Requiring 2 Months of Reprogramming because the Programm they had for controlling the Height of the Ramp was completely Finished and had to be rewritten almost entirely to actually deal with the Factor of Material Pushing it up and down rather than just with Shaking from Movement.


You should always put out stuff to Real Condition Testing by the People which will later use it. As soon as Possible.
Not only after YOU think its Finished.
Because sorry to tell ya. But you and your Pals are the absolutely worst testers you can have. Because you use the Stuff your Programming the way you intended it to be used. But the Users later on using it. And thats even more true for Games. Will use it like they need it. And if that ends up being different your setting yourself up for Major Misses.

I.ll ignore the remaining part. As your apparently leading an Monologue with yourself there. Given that your somehow making statements and answer them (partially wrongly) without anyone else actually talking about that.

But really all this talk of testing does not really apply to SC and CIG, see the PU is not for testing that is what the PTU is for, or is it the Avocados. See CIG have two layers of public alpha testing before it even gets to the PU.

ED is doing a very good job at hitting that MMO Sim style gameplay, if it is a little light on the MMO. Although if we were to talk about just MMO space ship games then I would say EVE online is better then ED, more content, does an amazing job at conveying a living breathing world (at least from the players, the NPC's are bad). Its main problem is that its not really what you would consider a "space sim".

ED on the other hand does "space sim" amazingly well, but the MMO aspects are not that great. It seems that FD are having a difficult time deciding what exactly ED is going to be. Is it going to be a hard grind type of game, or an easy game. Then how much of it is PVP and how much is it PVE. They add community goals something you would expect would be for people to work together for, but then they wanted players to compete for them. Same happened, but worse, with power play. Takes a long time to move around, but now we will have instant travel. Always online but minimum social features at launch.

Perhaps the biggest problem that I see happening with ED is that FD is very focused on adding mechanics instead of flushing the current mechanics out. And when they do add mechanics they are on the shallow side. I would love to see the mechanics already in the game flushed out. I actually hope that season 3 is not walking around, the amount of work and requirements for that are just massive and just getting something basic is a major undertaking.

I disagree.
One Mistake likely stemming from your idea to not consider Open Testing before Finishing something. And very common.

Who has actually ever said that an Space Sim needs to be heavy on Manual Piloting etc ?
In terms of Realism there is no sense talking about Space Sims. Because the Nature of FTL Travel alone makes it Necessary to Introduce Unrealistic Parts to the Game.
But who says that a Space Ship later on will not be Controlled by someone Sitting behind a Computer inside the Ship and Maneuvering and Controlling it Supported by Automatic Systems and Displaying the Ship and its Surroundings as an 3D Screen from an Variable Camera angle to gasp the Situation around you
Modern Military Jets are in some ways way more Modern and Supporting of the Pilot than the Space Ships in Elite Dangerous.
Elite Dangerous in alot of cases Requires Micromanagement and Manual Controls comparable to an World War 2 Aircraft. This amount of Manual Control actually makes it less Realistic than Eve as an Space Sim. Because in alot of cases this amount of Manual Control and the Inconsistent availablilty and unavailability of Support AI in the Ship is causing alot of Unrealistic Situations.

For example. Your Ship is Capable of doing an Fully Automated Jump to an 11 Light Years Distant Star. In which your own Control of the Ship is Limited to Pointing the Ship into the Rough Target Direction, Increasing the Throttle and then Decreasing the Throttle after you have Arrived and the Autopilot Returns Control to you.
At the same time. For an Supercruise to an 500 Light Seconds Distant Planet. You have to constantly watch and maintain certain Speed Settings and Control the Direction 100% yourself because your Ship is barely able of Decelerating with your Help upon approaching an Target.

Eve in this case is actually an far better Space Sim than Elite Dangerous. Because using Automatic Systems in this case is actually well more Realistic than having the Pilot do everything by Hand like ED does.




As for Flushing out the Mechanics. Well that depends on what you would like to see there.
Alot of the Mechanics needs Improvements or entire Reworks. But if you dont give an Information as to what you actually want there. Its hard to have an Opinion on it.

Generally I (as I said) hope that most of all they Increase their Scope.
Season 3 will come with Multi Crew being in Place already. Given that this is supposed to be part of Season 2.
So one Part I would hope for. Would be to Allow Player Assets like Stations managed by the Player and possibly being Worked and Supported by Different Players.
As well as maybe Capital Ships which would require several Players to be used.
We got 4 Billion Stars. And the Players cant even Found a Faction and Build an Outpost somewhere.
A Trader cant even Hire 2 NPC Escorts to Escort his Transport that has no real Armaments.
And even if we create a Minor Faction with an ED Group. We cannot really do anything with it. As its pretty much another Minor Faction with no difference to the random generated ones.


But well. its Obvious that we are thinking entirely different.

 

[lysan]

But really all this talk of testing does not really apply to SC and CIG, see the PU is not for testing that is what the PTU is for, or is it the Avocados. See CIG have two layers of public alpha testing before it even gets to the PU.

ED is doing a very good job at hitting that MMO Sim style gameplay, if it is a little light on the MMO. Although if we were to talk about just MMO space ship games then I would say EVE online is better then ED, more content, does an amazing job at conveying a living breathing world (at least from the players, the NPC's are bad). Its main problem is that its not really what you would consider a "space sim".

ED on the other hand does "space sim" amazingly well, but the MMO aspects are not that great. It seems that FD are having a difficult time deciding what exactly ED is going to be. Is it going to be a hard grind type of game, or an easy game. Then how much of it is PVP and how much is it PVE. They add community goals something you would expect would be for people to work together for, but then they wanted players to compete for them. Same happened, but worse, with power play. Takes a long time to move around, but now we will have instant travel. Always online but minimum social features at launch.

Perhaps the biggest problem that I see happening with ED is that FD is very focused on adding mechanics instead of flushing the current mechanics out. And when they do add mechanics they are on the shallow side. I would love to see the mechanics already in the game flushed out. I actually hope that season 3 is not walking around, the amount of work and requirements for that are just massive and just getting something basic is a major undertaking.

I agree with 90% of your opinion, however the walking around is very much needed in ED, the problem in ED is that it seems like there isn't a central point where the different game mechanics are checked and assuring they are coherent with lore, game style etc.

Then we end up with instant ship transfer and the engineers. However the new bases are great, there are a lot that is top notch and really not found in any game today.

 

[Mu77ley]

Because I am an Electrician for Industrial Machinery Specialized on Automatization.

So, you're a sparky who's trying the old argument from authority nonsense when you actually have no professional experience whatsoever...

 

[Jenner]

So you are saying that have not screwed up? Not with star marine? Arena Commander? the launch of the PU? All the ships they have had to redo? You have said you are willing to wait for 99 years and that you didn't care if they release anything.

Every game maker goes down some blind alleys. I'm not an expert, but frankly neither are you.

It's moot anyway, since you have made up your mind ages ago about the game.

 

[1500]

Erm Yeah.
Did I mention that I am the Emperor of China ?

Funny statement as you then say this.

Electrician for Industrial Machinery Specialized on Automatization

So you state that you are not a coder, interesting.

Given that apparently your limiting yourself towards only showing the Customer an Product that in your Eyes is already Finished. That sets you up for Failure. Because it means that by the time you show others your Product, changing it would be the same as redoing it entirely.

Nope, just that I would get it to a working prototype, like normal development goes. And that is not how programming works. Now if what you are saying that you as a costumer do not give clear guidelines on what you want from the programmers and as such when they make what you ask its nothing like what you wanted well...that is normal but is on your head. See this is how it actually works, a costumer sets out with what they want the product (code) to be, some poor coder starts working on it, then the costumer says oh we want B, C, D and E now, coder rolls their eyes and produces something that works that does what the costumer wants. Might not be finished, did you read my post I even say this. But it has to actually function in order for the costumer to know what it is doing.

See Mate. If you really are a Programmer Dude. Your exactly the Type of Programmer I hate. Because I am an Electrician for Industrial Machinery Specialized on Automatization. And this means that one of my most common Jobs. Is to Fix up the stuff we get from People like you, who think that they should do internal testing and then deliver the product to us based on their testing without us being involved in the process, to an working condition where we can actually use it.

Never said that, in fact I actually said you would involve the costumer.

This Approach of not showing their work before its "finished" in their eyes. Is exactly the reason why in the Field this Stuff often ends up not working and us Electricians then ending up somehow improvising the parts to get it working somehow.
Good example being an Machinery being Loaded and while being loaded maintaining the Intersection during Movement so the Loading doesnt miss. Unfortunately the Expert Programmer did just what your doing apparently. Instead of giving us the Unfinished Product and Testing certain Parts of it they did all Testing Internally. And then thanks to their Internal Testing ending up not Reflecting the actual Situation they forgot something as simple as that the Loading will Push down the Ramp. Ending up the Automatic Ramming the Ramp into the Floor over and over. And then Requiring 2 Months of Reprogramming because the Programm they had for controlling the Height of the Ramp was completely Finished and had to be rewritten almost entirely to actually deal with the Factor of Material Pushing it up and down rather than just with Shaking from Movement.

More then likely you forgot to tell them about it. So you didn't finish it, you provided feedback to the programmer and they finished it. This is very normal. Perhaps you should better document your needs. Yes if the code ask for has multiple parts you test multiple aspects. It is also possible he is just a bad programmer, and not because of your issue. As you don't understanding programming I will explain. Every thing should be modular in his coded so that when something like that needs to be changed it does not effect the rest of the code. A common mistake new programmers make is putting everything with in each other, meaning that when you change one little thing the rest of it breaks.

You should always put out stuff to Real Condition Testing by the People which will later use it. As soon as Possible.
Not only after YOU think its Finished.
Because sorry to tell ya. But you and your Pals are the absolutely worst testers you can have. Because you use the Stuff your Programming the way you intended it to be used. But the Users later on using it. And thats even more true for Games. Will use it like they need it. And if that ends up being different your setting yourself up for Major Misses.

I.ll ignore the remaining part. As your apparently leading an Monologue with yourself there. Given that your somehow making statements and answer them (partially wrongly) without anyone else actually talking about that.

See you are still missing key points. You can't test if it does not work. For some reason you are stock on finished, when I clearly stated that it would not be finished. Right as soon as possible, or like I said when it works.

lol no, that is why companies have QA departments, yet again showing how you don't program (you know like game companies do). Even in industry they have people that test the code that don't actually understand the programming. Its funny I actually said I would have the costumer try it and give feed back on what works and what does not work. And in terms of internal testing, you again don't have the others look at the code, just the functionality of it.

I disagree.
One Mistake likely stemming from your idea to not consider Open Testing before Finishing something. And very common.

Sorry, but no, please read my post again.

Who has actually ever said that an Space Sim needs to be heavy on Manual Piloting etc ?
In terms of Realism there is no sense talking about Space Sims. Because the Nature of FTL Travel alone makes it Necessary to Introduce Unrealistic Parts to the Game.
But who says that a Space Ship later on will not be Controlled by someone Sitting behind a Computer inside the Ship and Maneuvering and Controlling it Supported by Automatic Systems and Displaying the Ship and its Surroundings as an 3D Screen from an Variable Camera angle to gasp the Situation around you
Modern Military Jets are in some ways way more Modern and Supporting of the Pilot than the Space Ships in Elite Dangerous.
Elite Dangerous in alot of cases Requires Micromanagement and Manual Controls comparable to an World War 2 Aircraft. This amount of Manual Control actually makes it less Realistic than Eve as an Space Sim. Because in alot of cases this amount of Manual Control and the Inconsistent availablilty and unavailability of Support AI in the Ship is causing alot of Unrealistic Situations.

For example. Your Ship is Capable of doing an Fully Automated Jump to an 11 Light Years Distant Star. In which your own Control of the Ship is Limited to Pointing the Ship into the Rough Target Direction, Increasing the Throttle and then Decreasing the Throttle after you have Arrived and the Autopilot Returns Control to you.
At the same time. For an Supercruise to an 500 Light Seconds Distant Planet. You have to constantly watch and maintain certain Speed Settings and Control the Direction 100% yourself because your Ship is barely able of Decelerating with your Help upon approaching an Target.

Eve in this case is actually an far better Space Sim than Elite Dangerous. Because using Automatic Systems in this case is actually well more Realistic than having the Pilot do everything by Hand like ED does.

History has stated this. It is one of the key foundations that it is based on. From the original Elite, Wing Commander, Privateer, X-wing, those are the greats that defined what a space sim was. All of them were done from the first person perspective of flying. There is a reason that EVE online is not considered a space sim.

 

[1500]

I agree with 90% of your opinion, however the walking around is very much needed in ED, the problem in ED is that it seems like there isn't a central point where the different game mechanics are checked and assuring they are coherent with lore, game style etc.

Then we end up with instant ship transfer and the engineers. However the new bases are great, there are a lot that is top notch and really not found in any game today.

I agree, on game style and lure. Although it is also possible that FD are trying to change that and have a new focus on the game. Perhaps even taking player feedback into account. But I would also keep in mind that it is a game, and some times quality of life and game play require the dev to break their own lure/ game style. When dealing with a MMO, that seems to happen more often then not. Personally I would have liked to see ships taking a while to transport, basically about half the time it would take to manually do it. This way it stays within lure, while still providing a nice way to move ships around the universe.


While I think that people would better connect and the game would have much more appeal if you could walk around I don't see it adding much in terms of game play in relationship to how much work it would take to implement. The issue I see with walking around is that all the ships interiors will need to be done, with ED ships being massive, then you would need to have stuff to do in those ships. Or you ignore the ships, and just focus on the stations, but then the stations are even more massive. And again what would you do? Missions will be the same, trading will be the same. Walking around does not add gameplay its self. All it would do would add another way of starting the missions activities that are already present in the game, but that is not really adding gameplay.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Every game maker goes down some blind alleys. I'm not an expert, but frankly neither are you.

It's moot anyway, since you have made up your mind ages ago about the game.

Well I never said I was an expert. Funny that.

But yes, I have seen CIG history and what their actions have been. The multiple times that CIG have lied, the rushed out code, the backtracking, the focus on assets and not on base code. I have also played their code and seen the, lol, quality of their work. So while I hope they turn it around, as another good space sim is always appreciated and enjoyed, I am not holding my breath.

But yes it is moot, as you have also made up your mind ages ago about the game.

 

[lysan]

I agree, on game style and lure. Although it is also possible that FD are trying to change that and have a new focus on the game. Perhaps even taking player feedback into account. But I would also keep in mind that it is a game, and some times quality of life and game play require the dev to break their own lure/ game style. When dealing with a MMO, that seems to happen more often then not. Personally I would have liked to see ships taking a while to transport, basically about half the time it would take to manually do it. This way it stays within lure, while still providing a nice way to move ships around the universe.


While I think that people would better connect and the game would have much more appeal if you could walk around I don't see it adding much in terms of game play in relationship to how much work it would take to implement. The issue I see with walking around is that all the ships interiors will need to be done, with ED ships being massive, then you would need to have stuff to do in those ships. Or you ignore the ships, and just focus on the stations, but then the stations are even more massive. And again what would you do? Missions will be the same, trading will be the same. Walking around does not add gameplay its self. All it would do would add another way of starting the missions activities that are already present in the game, but that is not really adding gameplay.

Well it will not add gameplay per say, only if there are things to do. However what it will do is opening up for gameplay that is more interresting in many ways. It all comes down to the developers ability to design the game in an interresting way.

Why is Skyrim interresting? basically you do the same thing over and over, go to cave, kill monster, beat boss, collect <insert weapon>.

ED could do the same thing, go to <interresting place> solve some puzzles, kill some baddies, finish boss, take home the prize.
The galaxy is big enough to feed all the players with this kind of gameplay.

Just make some caves, building, crashed ships, abandon stations and outposts and you suddenly have a different game.

 

[1500]

Well it will not add gameplay per say, only if there are things to do. However what it will do is opening up for gameplay that is more interresting in many ways. It all comes down to the developers ability to design the game in an interresting way.

Why is Skyrim interresting? basically you do the same thing over and over, go to care, kill monster, beat boss, collect <insert weapon>.

ED could do the same thing, go to <interresting place> solve some puzzles, kill some baddies, finish boss, take home the prize.
The galaxy is big enough to feed all the players with this kind of gameplay.

Just make some caves, building, crashed ships, abandon stations and outposts and you suddenly have a different game.

Right but ED is a space sim, you are asking for them to add Skyrim levels of content to the game. To an aspect of the game that not everyone will be interested in. ED is already dismissed as being a mile wide but an inch deep, and trying to do what you ask will make it even worse. There is no way that aspect will be flushed out to the level of Skyrim, or to a sand alone gameplay aspect. So it will end up being just another game mechanic that is basic but gets old fast. What we really don't want is SC level of content, making walking around pointless, or worse taking a space ship game and turning it into a FPS.

I disagree that you can feed all the players with this kind of gameplay, many games fall flat because they try to chase too many audiences instead of just focusing on what they do well and doing that amazing.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Well they have to sell seasons. So maybe they see the survival of the game on adding new feature instead of expanding what we already have.

 

[Insomnia]

...the walking around is very much needed in ED, the problem in ED is that it seems like there isn't a central point where the different game mechanics are checked and assuring they are coherent with lore, game style etc.

Then we end up with instant ship transfer and the engineers. However the new bases are great, there are a lot that is top notch and really not found in any game today.

I don't know if walking-around is really *needed* at this time. I still think a lot of features are missing and those that are already in the game needs to be fleshed out before adding the whole walking-around thing.
I fear that, like you say, things are being implemented without coherence with the actual game world and with no clear direction of where the game is headed.
Adding features upon features doesn't make it any deeper. It'll probably just end up being confused instead.

I've been away from ED a month now, but after NMS flopped, I've started to miss Elite Dangerous.

 

[lysan]

Right but ED is a space sim, you are asking for them to add Skyrim levels of content to the game. To an aspect of the game that not everyone will be interested in. ED is already dismissed as being a mile wide but an inch deep, and trying to do what you ask will make it even worse. There is no way that aspect will be flushed out to the level of Skyrim, or to a sand alone gameplay aspect. So it will end up being just another game mechanic that is basic but gets old fast. What we really don't want is SC level of content, making walking around pointless, or worse taking a space ship game and turning it into a FPS.

I disagree that you can feed all the players with this kind of gameplay, many games fall flat because they try to chase too many audiences instead of just focusing on what they do well and doing that amazing.

Again it all come down to how its done. I'm not asking for Skyrim in space, however some of the mechanics could be implemented successfully. A space sim only means that the setting are in space. Its like saying that firefly is a Sci-fi so why have human emotions and relations in the show? Because in 90% of firefly its about human relations than its about sci-fi.

Scenario:

you find a abandon ship, you need to EVA, go into the ship, get the power on, open a terminal, find out what happen, download some data, maybe shoot some space critters and get the heck out of there before you KIA.

That require spacelegs, and this will be one of the reasons to get spacelegs in the game. Ofc FD need to flesh out the game we already have, and I do believe that when we get the spacelegs, the seasons will get longer and it will only make the game deeper.

 

[1500]

Again it all come down to how its done. I'm not asking for Skyrim in space, however some of the mechanics could be implemented successfully. A space sim only means that the setting are in space. Its like saying that firefly is a Sci-fi so why have human emotions and relations in the show? Because in 90% of firefly its about human relations than its about sci-fi.

Scenario:

you find a abandon ship, you need to EVA, go into the ship, get the power on, open a terminal, find out what happen, download some data, maybe shoot some space critters and get the heck out of there before you KIA.

That require spacelegs, and this will be one of the reasons to get spacelegs in the game. Ofc FD need to flesh out the game we already have, and I do believe that when we get the spacelegs, the seasons will get longer and it will only make the game deeper.

No that is not how a space sim is defined, there is a reason that Freelancer, EVE online and others are not considered space sims.

Again, that is a ton of work to add very little game play. How many times are you willing to do that exact same thing before it gets old? It does not add depth to the game, just another shallow mechanic. All you did was describe a basic fetch quest, something we already have in the game. How about instead of adding more shallow content, the current fetch missions get flushed out. If that is all you want, then SC has that right now.

 

[Jenner]

Again it all come down to how its done. I'm not asking for Skyrim in space, however some of the mechanics could be implemented successfully. A space sim only means that the setting are in space. Its like saying that firefly is a Sci-fi so why have human emotions and relations in the show? Because in 90% of firefly its about human relations than its about sci-fi.

Scenario:

you find a abandon ship, you need to EVA, go into the ship, get the power on, open a terminal, find out what happen, download some data, maybe shoot some space critters and get the heck out of there before you KIA.

That require spacelegs, and this will be one of the reasons to get spacelegs in the game. Ofc FD need to flesh out the game we already have, and I do believe that when we get the spacelegs, the seasons will get longer and it will only make the game deeper.

I could not agree more.

 

[1500]

Scenario:

you find a abandon ship, you need to EVA, go into the ship, get the power on, open a terminal, find out what happen, download some data, maybe shoot some space critters and get the heck out of there before you KIA.

So lets take your basic fetch quest and look at what would need to be added.

Ship interiors would need to be modeled, all of them. That's a massive amount of work just in its self. Then you would need walking mechanics added, zero G mechanics added, guns with their upgrades, interaction panels. So you would not be happy with a single critter to shoot right? So how many? 5? 10? How many do you need for you not to get bored? All of these things would have to be added at a basic function in order for them to be added in any type of realistic manor.

That is not even everything that would need to be added in order to just be able to do a simple fetch quest. It would be shallow gameplay on top of the shallow missions already in the game, but would require massive amounts of work. So FD could spend all that time and resources in order to add a basic fetch quest, or they could spend that time creating depth to their current missions and mechanics.

Now lets think about what FD could do with their time instead.

Same abandoned ship. You show up and scan the ship, discover that it contains data but its encrypted, so you have to hack the ship (adding hacking, and creating depth to the current mechanics). But there are different levels, first one is easy but it triggers a distress signal, now you are chasing the clock, do you keep hacking to learn more? Do you take off now that it is safe? Failure could blow up the abandoned ship damaging yours, perhaps killing you, perhaps just doing enough damage that the incoming force is able to take you out. You hack the next level, but now the enemy has shown up. One of the ships has a FSD jammier (or could just be large, again, could add depth to the current mechanics). Do you destroy the ship? Do you just try to disable it? Do you just try and run? Depends on what you have brought with you. You fight off the attacks and go off to sell your aquaired information.

Instead of just a fetch quest, depth to what is currently in the game is added. Yes it adds a single new mechanic to the game, but that mechanic adds depth to the current structure, with out all that engineering dept that comes with walking around.

 

[lysan]

So lets take your basic fetch quest and look at what would need to be added.

Ship interiors would need to be modeled, all of them. That's a massive amount of work just in its self. Then you would need walking mechanics added, zero G mechanics added, guns with their upgrades, interaction panels. So you would not be happy with a single critter to shoot right? So how many? 5? 10? How many do you need for you not to get bored? All of these things would have to be added at a basic function in order for them to be added in any type of realistic manor.

That is not even everything that would need to be added in order to just be able to do a simple fetch quest. It would be shallow gameplay on top of the shallow missions already in the game, but would require massive amounts of work. So FD could spend all that time and resources in order to add a basic fetch quest, or they could spend that time creating depth to their current missions and mechanics.

Now lets think about what FD could do with their time instead.

Same abandoned ship. You show up and scan the ship, discover that it contains data but its encrypted, so you have to hack the ship (adding hacking, and creating depth to the current mechanics). But there are different levels, first one is easy but it triggers a distress signal, now you are chasing the clock, do you keep hacking to learn more? Do you take off now that it is safe? Failure could blow up the abandoned ship damaging yours, perhaps killing you, perhaps just doing enough damage that the incoming force is able to take you out. You hack the next level, but now the enemy has shown up. One of the ships has a FSD jammier (or could just be large, again, could add depth to the current mechanics). Do you destroy the ship? Do you just try to disable it? Do you just try and run? Depends on what you have brought with you. You fight off the attacks and go off to sell your aquaired information.

Instead of just a fetch quest, depth to what is currently in the game is added. Yes it adds a single new mechanic to the game, but that mechanic adds depth to the current structure, with out all that engineering dept that comes with walking around.

Yes, that would be a different approach, however the spaceleg edition would sell more copies due to the space leg feature. So from a business point of view that would be a better option.
Also remember that they already have some of the ships fleshed out if not all of them. DB also said (1 year ago) that they are already working on season 3-4

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

Again it all come down to how its done. I'm not asking for Skyrim in space, however some of the mechanics could be implemented successfully. A space sim only means that the setting are in space. Its like saying that firefly is a Sci-fi so why have human emotions and relations in the show? Because in 90% of firefly its about human relations than its about sci-fi.

Scenario:

you find a abandon ship, you need to EVA, go into the ship, get the power on, open a terminal, find out what happen, download some data, maybe shoot some space critters and get the heck out of there before you KIA.

That require spacelegs, and this will be one of the reasons to get spacelegs in the game. Ofc FD need to flesh out the game we already have, and I do believe that when we get the spacelegs, the seasons will get longer and it will only make the game deeper.

That sounds like a lot of fun and very alike of what we already have in Star Citizen. And yes it's a lot of fun.

 

[1500]

Yes, that would be a different approach, however the spaceleg edition would sell more copies due to the space leg feature. So from a business point of view that would be a better option.
Also remember that they already have some of the ships fleshed out if not all of them. DB also said (1 year ago) that they are already working on season 3-4

And better missions would also sell more copies. So you can't say it would be a better option, in fact adding more shallow mechanics will not add anything to the game, as time and history has shown. And what aspect are they working on? What is season 3 and 4? Right we don't know.

Also by flushed out they mean they know the layout, not that it has been actually designed or created in-engine. Just that ships were created with the thought of how the inside would be set up.

 

[Mr T]

So lets take your basic fetch quest and look at what would need to be added.


Ship interiors would need to be modeled, all of them. That's a massive amount of work just in its self. Then you would need walking mechanics added, zero G mechanics added, guns with their upgrades, interaction panels. So you would not be happy with a single critter to shoot right? So how many? 5? 10? How many do you need for you not to get bored? All of these things would have to be added at a basic function in order for them to be added in any type of realistic manor.


That is not even everything that would need to be added in order to just be able to do a simple fetch quest. It would be shallow gameplay on top of the shallow missions already in the game, but would require massive amounts of work. So FD could spend all that time and resources in order to add a basic fetch quest, or they could spend that time creating depth to their current missions and mechanics.


Now lets think about what FD could do with their time instead.


Same abandoned ship. You show up and scan the ship, discover that it contains data but its encrypted, so you have to hack the ship (adding hacking, and creating depth to the current mechanics). But there are different levels, first one is easy but it triggers a distress signal, now you are chasing the clock, do you keep hacking to learn more? Do you take off now that it is safe? Failure could blow up the abandoned ship damaging yours, perhaps killing you, perhaps just doing enough damage that the incoming force is able to take you out. You hack the next level, but now the enemy has shown up. One of the ships has a FSD jammier (or could just be large, again, could add depth to the current mechanics). Do you destroy the ship? Do you just try to disable it? Do you just try and run? Depends on what you have brought with you. You fight off the attacks and go off to sell your acquired information.


Instead of just a fetch quest, depth to what is currently in the game is added. Yes it adds a single new mechanic to the game, but that mechanic adds depth to the current structure, with out all that engineering dept that comes with walking around.

I agree with you on this 1500. If you look at the updates for ED that have already come and are coming (2.2 for example) most of them are built upon what was there already. This makes sense from a development viewpoint as they're not waisting what they already developed and it makes sense from a user viewpoint as the way users interact with the game is familiar. Developing something new like "space legs" is a great concept but it needs to be easily adapted to what is there currently. It might be coming in the future sometime but I would expect a host of other game additions and improvements before it eventuates so it can be built upon the (then) existing structure.


Star Citizen has the upper hand from a "space legs" viewpoint because it was developed with them from the start. Everything else is being added and improved on top of that. I'm not saying SC is a better or worse game than ED, just that the environmental interactions are different and possibly will be for some time.

 

[CTCParadox]

While I'm glad that FDev doesn't toot their own horn too much it would be nice to have more idea of what's coming up in 2.3, 2.4 and 3.0. Still I don't have too much in the way of brand loyalty so if SC or some other game comes along and looks better I'll jump ship without any shame.

p.s. Sunleader your writing hurts my eye. Maybe try to lay off the random capitalisation.