I'm gonna have to ask you to stay on topic sir.Agreed, but what'cha gonna do?
News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
You have the full right to ask, especially that nicely, sir
Actually he doesn't. He has the privilege to ask, one that can be removed at fd's sole discretion at any time.
Under what header in support should this be reported under?
I gotta say that very often it feels like I need an army of lawyers to play this game or participate on the forums. Never in all my years have I witnessed an environment that is so smotheringly oppressive, and backwardly crippled by pathetic fastidious nitpicking and polictical correctness, with words and actions warped and twisted and used against us, and stifling but vague conditions on what is deemed legitimate gameplay.. Very sinister and creepy.
Now, not only is our every word examined and scrutinised to the nth degree, so are our actions in the game.
If you read this its going to be almost impossible to play the game without violating it:
But er, 'Infitite Freedom' right.? lol wat. I play games for enjoyment and a sense of escapism, not to put myself in some viritual prison. [rolleyes]
Now, not only is our every word examined and scrutinised to the nth degree, so are our actions in the game.
If you read this its going to be almost impossible to play the game without violating it:
But er, 'Infitite Freedom' right.? lol wat. I play games for enjoyment and a sense of escapism, not to put myself in some viritual prison. [rolleyes]
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If you consider any of the things highlighted in your post to be something you have an inalienable right to do, I think your problems may be deeper than the rules of a computer game.
Which ones do you find to be akin to being in prison by the way, not being allowed to be threatening, being directly offensive, harassing, bullying? I hardly consider myself to be a dyed in the wool bleeding heart liberal and I can't say I feel especially curtailed in my activities by rules preventing those things.
Your money buys the software and the privilege of connecting that software to Frontier's servers, something required for playing the game. But you don't get to use a private enterprise's server to harass other players if Frontier has rules against harassment. If you feel like being an insufferable jerk is fundamental to enjoyment of the game, and you are in a prison otherwise, then bye bye and good riddance.
If you play in open then you should NOT expect to have complete control over what happens when you meet other CMDR's.
Players will be pirates and bounty hunters and if your a soft target then you will get attack more often by most likely the same players that's what freedom is on a MMO space sim allows so don't be a soft target.
If you stop player pirates and bounty hunter hunting other CMDR's this game will become stale fast and you might as well go back to playing frontier elite 2. Care bears take excitement from games when they cry about PVP and lost ships that insta re-appear in station fully fitted for a small fee and complain about PVP until they get it nurfed on a open MMO. I see this as them Harassing a player TYPE on the forums TBH PVP-er's play for adrenaline and the unknown of can i beat this target... this shouldn't be looked down on its something that must stay in this game to make it ELITE DANGEROUS not FRONTIER ELITE 2 RE-SKINNED
If thats what you want then play solo
Players will be pirates and bounty hunters and if your a soft target then you will get attack more often by most likely the same players that's what freedom is on a MMO space sim allows so don't be a soft target.
If you stop player pirates and bounty hunter hunting other CMDR's this game will become stale fast and you might as well go back to playing frontier elite 2. Care bears take excitement from games when they cry about PVP and lost ships that insta re-appear in station fully fitted for a small fee and complain about PVP until they get it nurfed on a open MMO. I see this as them Harassing a player TYPE on the forums TBH PVP-er's play for adrenaline and the unknown of can i beat this target... this shouldn't be looked down on its something that must stay in this game to make it ELITE DANGEROUS not FRONTIER ELITE 2 RE-SKINNED
If thats what you want then play solo
I am always confused by people saying things like this.
You realise this is a game we're playing together right? We're all here to have fun - if people can't respect that and treat each other in a manner appropriate to that what exactly do they expect to happen?
Seems pretty out of touch with reality to me.
This made me Lol. Somehow you are in a prison that your purchased with your own money. A prison that chose to invest time into. All that the OP is stating that this game was made for everyone and not just a select few people.
For example if you only like PVP and you only like killing other players, well then this is probably not the game you should be playing. You can kill other players to be sure but that is not its primary focus. Just because you laser focus onto a single aspect of the game doesnt mean that anyone else should have to account for your individual mindset.
So interrupting player created events or some high profile goals not only disrupts other peoples game play it disrupts the game itself. It drives players away instead of attracts them.
So yes there is Infinate freedom in this game. You can choose to be disuptive and antisocial. However since we do not have a real Virtual Prison nor can FDEV put lockdowns on accounts for every infraction, we must rely on other people to at least be human about a situation.
Interrupting charity events, funerals, and other such live streams is just griefing and frankly we dont need those kinds of players.
We All Know SDC is the group mostly referred here, but not the only one, most of their players asked FD to reset their Combat Rank Status so they could rank up by killing players, it seamed a good idea at the time for hardcore PVP players, to build up their PVP combat rank that way, in reality most of theses players gather around ANY big event just to kill sidewinders by the dozen.
So i propose that penalty for any kind of shenanigans like these from any player would be met with a very harsh solution:
Said CMDR would get a 6 month Bounty of 1 000 000 000 CR on his head, his location posted in galnet and all Stations news, "The Wall of Infamy", and they would become what they want to be the Center of the galaxy, all Hardcore Bounty Hunters players would go for it and i'm sure that most of the SDC would love to be the face of the devil.
PS: losing buybacks by the dozen, has a very soothing and relaxing effect on people
Please do attack players, but do so, from supercruise, don't stay around anarchy stations where lots of people go for some reason or other and kill them when they are leaving or landing, that is just stupid, and saying it is valid game play or fair is a lye!
Attacking harmless or mostly harmless players in sidewinders or other small ships, just as they are leaving or entering settlements is harassment, not to the players but to FDEV, that gets a rep for having a no control over the player base and making a game that can't be played because you can not leave the station you first spawn from.
NO you should not, no one should, BUT if you decide to go to a Engineers Base to Kill not pirate players just for the fun of the fireworks and then you and your group get all salty because a player decides to use the ingame save and exit option wait the 15 seconds and not get killed ... do you have the right to call them combat loggers ? do you have the right to disrupt everyone else's fun just because you want to force someone into a pvp situation ????
On that pirating thing... I really like "honest" piracy, where players ask for some cargo before they shoot. I was already jumping away when I met the last one, if I weren't I would have paid him double for the effort.
I also have been shot by players. When I didn't have any cargo or bounty on me. I didn't like it. I think those people are just jerks who are bored and disrupt my game. I wouldn't consider that harrassment though. BUT if that player follows me around, and shoots me more than once, that's really unnecessary and doesn't serve any purpose other then that player having fun with griefing me. If there are insults or something like that I would report.
The borderline with PvP shoot-to-kill piracy turning into harassment should be pretty clear for every social being.
I also have been shot by players. When I didn't have any cargo or bounty on me. I didn't like it. I think those people are just jerks who are bored and disrupt my game. I wouldn't consider that harrassment though. BUT if that player follows me around, and shoots me more than once, that's really unnecessary and doesn't serve any purpose other then that player having fun with griefing me. If there are insults or something like that I would report.
The borderline with PvP shoot-to-kill piracy turning into harassment should be pretty clear for every social being.
+1 for improved security around HIREZ and community goals. I have had community goals completely ruined because their purpose of bringing the community together as a PVE task is completely overshadowed by PVP players who use it as a high-density of players in non-combat ships.
Even in the bounty-hunting community goal a few weeks back, it was unsettling since all the security (vipers and the occasional Anaconda) were being completely annihilated on spawn by a wing of two, a 'conda with 8x pulsed scramble spectrum and a 5x multicannon FdL annihilating powerplants. Shields disappeared fast and from that point everything was paralysed and rapidly destroyed. With the utterly outclassed vipers and occasional anaconda coming in to try and restore authority, it was essentially a player massacre that made me decide to switch to solo mode for the rest of the goal. It was bad enough being ganked 2-on-1 but at least in my own combat ship I was able to put up some kind of fight.
At the moment, players willing to role-play as criminals or insane murderers is in need of some counter; It makes no sense for anyone else to risk their expensive ships to take on players with a ridiculously meagre bounty. There are two obvious solutions to address the damage that this part of the community causes, and preventing them from trying to grief in open is obviously detracting from their fun.
The first option is, as has already been suggested, make security warp in to the crime location far quicker, and in more numbers or better ships. Even when I'm interdicted by an NPC in my python (which wastes a hardpoint for mining and doesn't have any defensive internals other than the shield), the feds don't show up until the NPC pirate is space dust and I'm scooping up the materials from their wreckage. Those fights usually last 30-60s and if the feds take a whole minute to arrive they're almost always redundant. If I were a player-pirate murdering another player I could easily have high-waked before the feds are even on the scene. Let's say that in a low-sec the feds respond as they currently do in a high-sec, and in a high-sec they turn up within 15 seconds in force (wing of 5 with at least one anaconda) and will pursue high-wakes. That would at least let people mine in high-sec zones with some glimmer of protection without ruining all of the pirates' potential fun.
Secondly, is to make the wanted bounties larger and more relevant to the risk involved with PVP. I'm not going to risk a single death to a player pirate who is murdering everyone for fun if their bounty is at only 50K for multiple murders. That doesn't even cover 1% of my rebuy cost so I'd need to kill them and other players like them at a kill:loss ratio of 100:1 just to break even!! That's a terrible, ridiculously stupid thing to attempt so unless you happen to have enough people to make a superior wing and reliably take these guys down, they will carry on griefing with no real risk to themselves. They are in their best, most capable combat ships and their victims are most likely in max-cargo, max-range trade ships. I run mines, chaff and a sizeable shield (boosted) on my traderconda but even then it's not a guarantee of safely high-waking because I'm running class-D internals, whilst Running class-A internals would make it a terrible trade ship. So, how about making the bounties on players relevant to the risk you take standing up to them? If they have murdered someone with a 2M rebuy cost, their bounty should be 2M. If they've murdered ten people and inflicted a total of 50M rebuy cost on those people, their bounty should be at least 50M. If players are trying to PVE either alone or as a group, there needs to be something that makes it worth the effort of stopping what they wanted to do, going out of their way to fetch their combat ships (or re-outfitting for combat) and then taking on a very high-risk target(s). The alternatives are:
1) combat logging - frustrating for victims and assailants alike :'(
2) switching to solo - bad for the health of the whole community :'(
3) postponing whatever they were hoping to do until the griefer gets bored and logs out. Where's the fun in that for anyone?
Even in the bounty-hunting community goal a few weeks back, it was unsettling since all the security (vipers and the occasional Anaconda) were being completely annihilated on spawn by a wing of two, a 'conda with 8x pulsed scramble spectrum and a 5x multicannon FdL annihilating powerplants. Shields disappeared fast and from that point everything was paralysed and rapidly destroyed. With the utterly outclassed vipers and occasional anaconda coming in to try and restore authority, it was essentially a player massacre that made me decide to switch to solo mode for the rest of the goal. It was bad enough being ganked 2-on-1 but at least in my own combat ship I was able to put up some kind of fight.
At the moment, players willing to role-play as criminals or insane murderers is in need of some counter; It makes no sense for anyone else to risk their expensive ships to take on players with a ridiculously meagre bounty. There are two obvious solutions to address the damage that this part of the community causes, and preventing them from trying to grief in open is obviously detracting from their fun.
The first option is, as has already been suggested, make security warp in to the crime location far quicker, and in more numbers or better ships. Even when I'm interdicted by an NPC in my python (which wastes a hardpoint for mining and doesn't have any defensive internals other than the shield), the feds don't show up until the NPC pirate is space dust and I'm scooping up the materials from their wreckage. Those fights usually last 30-60s and if the feds take a whole minute to arrive they're almost always redundant. If I were a player-pirate murdering another player I could easily have high-waked before the feds are even on the scene. Let's say that in a low-sec the feds respond as they currently do in a high-sec, and in a high-sec they turn up within 15 seconds in force (wing of 5 with at least one anaconda) and will pursue high-wakes. That would at least let people mine in high-sec zones with some glimmer of protection without ruining all of the pirates' potential fun.
Secondly, is to make the wanted bounties larger and more relevant to the risk involved with PVP. I'm not going to risk a single death to a player pirate who is murdering everyone for fun if their bounty is at only 50K for multiple murders. That doesn't even cover 1% of my rebuy cost so I'd need to kill them and other players like them at a kill:loss ratio of 100:1 just to break even!! That's a terrible, ridiculously stupid thing to attempt so unless you happen to have enough people to make a superior wing and reliably take these guys down, they will carry on griefing with no real risk to themselves. They are in their best, most capable combat ships and their victims are most likely in max-cargo, max-range trade ships. I run mines, chaff and a sizeable shield (boosted) on my traderconda but even then it's not a guarantee of safely high-waking because I'm running class-D internals, whilst Running class-A internals would make it a terrible trade ship. So, how about making the bounties on players relevant to the risk you take standing up to them? If they have murdered someone with a 2M rebuy cost, their bounty should be 2M. If they've murdered ten people and inflicted a total of 50M rebuy cost on those people, their bounty should be at least 50M. If players are trying to PVE either alone or as a group, there needs to be something that makes it worth the effort of stopping what they wanted to do, going out of their way to fetch their combat ships (or re-outfitting for combat) and then taking on a very high-risk target(s). The alternatives are:
1) combat logging - frustrating for victims and assailants alike :'(
2) switching to solo - bad for the health of the whole community :'(
3) postponing whatever they were hoping to do until the griefer gets bored and logs out. Where's the fun in that for anyone?