The Star Citizen Thread v5
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That's what you get when you stick things in places where they should never be.
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Don't forget the packet of s as well.
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That's what you get when you stick things in places where they should never be.
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Don't forget the packet of s as well.
Press use to smoke while Dot goes on about Jesus, that will work, I can see it now.
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Incidentally I really hate that program, I walk out of the room if I see it's on, seriously.
Somehow I don't think you've been to law school. Else...Hi Toast! You do have many names!
That what was not the point I was aiming at. The guy I quoted in https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4487765 still told himself by end of 2014 weeks before the ED 1.0 release, that he will get the space sim of his dreams, that "a lot of work is still required" by Frontier to add all the features he made up in his fantasy. He got the MVP of course, because by that date I'm sure the final product was already feature-locked and polished for public release (with the usual few weeks delay).
And that's exactly where Star Citizen will end up too: The broken client, we often call techdemo is already shaping into the MVP while devs check one shallow proof of concept implementation of a feature off the list after another. We can already download and see, what will become the final game release, which is nothing like those fancy Gamescom render demos. Still SC backers are fantasizing about procedural birds. CIG financials will decide when the thing will get declared "finished release" and it won't be pretty.
Feel free to use this video below when you need to remind "pilgrims"how flght mechanics supposed to look like......
[video=youtube;H27q5VgHmZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27q5VgHmZI[/video]
[video=youtube;H27q5VgHmZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27q5VgHmZI[/video]
All the want to be Star Admirals and their hundred page tactical doctrines of fleet formations who have been fighting the great wars in their heads for nearly 4 years now...just bought another thing of popcorn today. Now I just need butter as I'm sure the forums and reddit will provide plenty of salt.
JohnMice - or whoever you are - HERE is how it works: http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/
It's been posted before in this thread, but the faithful constantly ignore it despite its 100% accuracy.
You, you and Orlando and the other faithful are not how it works.
That is a problem for individuals like you, and Orlando, and the others who are absolutely beyond delusional - you ignore facts, you ignore reality. Just like CR.
So CR has Wing Commander. Okay. He failed with Freelancer. There were also WAY better space games like Descent, Descent : Freespace, Freespace 2... and they owe as much to Wing Commander as Microsoft Flight Simulator owes no one anything. There was Elite in 1984. There was Wing Commander in the '90s. There were air combat games in the '70s, so every single air combat game after owes them something? If so, then CR and Wing Commander owe everything to ASTEROIDS.
Just to make it absolutely clear - CR has done nothing innovative. He's done nothing revolutionary. He even had to use an off-the-shelf engine to fail at making "his vision" because the engine couldn't do it, and then he had to frankenmod it to make it maybe do it - still can not be verified by backers because it is some version that no one has access to. He's a hack, and I really wish I had seen that front and center when I originally backed/bought that CryEngine was what he was basing his dream on. I would have laughed my fidelity off.
I am glad I put money into another great space game though. I initially didn't play it much. Just occasionally. It was okay. then after a year and a half it was pretty in-depth and fun, and I have been playing it constantly since It was only a year and a half of further development, but it advance tremendously. So obviously I am not concerned about the game being built and done soon/quickly... I will wait. But, CR has mismanaged consistently, and he's using an off-the-shelf-engine that is questionable aside from the First Person Shooter side and the pretty graphics... but... yeah... it hasn't advanced at all. Unless you want to count the nonsense hangar module and the mini-PeeYew - which by the way was supposed to be done last year but in a full PeeYew. It's comical, truly is.
It's been posted before in this thread, but the faithful constantly ignore it despite its 100% accuracy.
You, you and Orlando and the other faithful are not how it works.
That is a problem for individuals like you, and Orlando, and the others who are absolutely beyond delusional - you ignore facts, you ignore reality. Just like CR.
So CR has Wing Commander. Okay. He failed with Freelancer. There were also WAY better space games like Descent, Descent : Freespace, Freespace 2... and they owe as much to Wing Commander as Microsoft Flight Simulator owes no one anything. There was Elite in 1984. There was Wing Commander in the '90s. There were air combat games in the '70s, so every single air combat game after owes them something? If so, then CR and Wing Commander owe everything to ASTEROIDS.
Just to make it absolutely clear - CR has done nothing innovative. He's done nothing revolutionary. He even had to use an off-the-shelf engine to fail at making "his vision" because the engine couldn't do it, and then he had to frankenmod it to make it maybe do it - still can not be verified by backers because it is some version that no one has access to. He's a hack, and I really wish I had seen that front and center when I originally backed/bought that CryEngine was what he was basing his dream on. I would have laughed my fidelity off.
I am glad I put money into another great space game though. I initially didn't play it much. Just occasionally. It was okay. then after a year and a half it was pretty in-depth and fun, and I have been playing it constantly since It was only a year and a half of further development, but it advance tremendously. So obviously I am not concerned about the game being built and done soon/quickly... I will wait. But, CR has mismanaged consistently, and he's using an off-the-shelf-engine that is questionable aside from the First Person Shooter side and the pretty graphics... but... yeah... it hasn't advanced at all. Unless you want to count the nonsense hangar module and the mini-PeeYew - which by the way was supposed to be done last year but in a full PeeYew. It's comical, truly is.
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It is how it works for some production delay are common it is if there finacial backup from publisher or other then delays are covered. It is wenn not then there is rushed out releases , if it is possible if not cancelation. They are not on a thight budged but the could come in this situation.
And game engines espacialy thos huge licensable engine are not locked in a genre the are often used for specific genre but are so data driven that any genre can be done. And with any engine it also possible to heavy modify it.
So engine argument is bogus. It makes huge sense for CiG to go with exiting engine. Because as new Studio they had barely codebase . Mayby prototype not suitable for large production where tool chain for production is very important. That where licensable engine are strong in.
And game engines espacialy thos huge licensable engine are not locked in a genre the are often used for specific genre but are so data driven that any genre can be done. And with any engine it also possible to heavy modify it.
So engine argument is bogus. It makes huge sense for CiG to go with exiting engine. Because as new Studio they had barely codebase . Mayby prototype not suitable for large production where tool chain for production is very important. That where licensable engine are strong in.
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Exactly. On one side there's the (glacial) progress of the PTU, bits and pieces like shopping being added occasionally, perhaps a rocky planet to land on in a few months, and then on the other hand there's the ongoing simplification of the mechanics, cargo most recently, pitched to the community as refinement and progress rather than failure of course, and eventually those two processes will converge and, tada! There's your MVP. They're not going to suddenly leap the gaping chasm between what they've produced so far and what Roberts describes in fawning interviews or shows in purpose-built trade show demos, it's going to be a slow process of attrition.
As slow as humanly possible as far as they're concerned, when a simple demo like Gamescom can net them far more money than most crowdfunded games could ever hope to raise, which is just sad.
It made sense for what was originally planned: to get a fair amount of crowdfunding and knock out a basic, modernised Wing Commander with as little effort as possible - everyone's happy. The only reason it might make sense for the updated mission statement, namely to build a game that does everything and anything Roberts can possible imagine / steal from every game ever made, is because I doubt they would have had any more success achieving that goal with their own engine than they've had with CryEngine. Which is to say, very little success.
It reminds me of Vanguard, a fantasy MMO sold on the promise of a very large, seamless world, house building, sailing, all the MMO dream bullet points. And for reasons best known to themselves, Sigil (a company founded by another 90s game dev superstar) decided to build it on UnrealEngine (2.0), an engine which was almost exclusively used for corridor or arena FPS games. They had to modify the hell out of it, and they never did get it to work properly. I recall their ingenious solution to major memory leak issues was to compress the textures so the crashes happened less often. Needless to say the launch was disastrous and the company folded almost immediately. Meanwhile, for all the ongoing and valid back-and-forth about game play, it's hard to argue that Frontier's bespoke solution does what they set out to do, and does it well.
In other words, they invested so much that failure is not an option.
Some invested more than money and got burnt on different levels
exactly but I don't understand your second statement, what did they invest other than money ?
As meatloaf once sang so eloquently... he would pledge anything for love but he won't charge back...
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Well, Cyengine has been in use for a few mmos now, the most similar one to SC is Entropia Universe but they ended up to create a set of huge levels, space is just a huge level you use to access planets just like in SC, I found yesterday the space level in SC has borders beyond which you blow up, I kept blowing up for no reason and then I found out I was hitting the border LOL, it's not even that huge, it's a gas giant with a moon, a system in miniature that doesn't have anything to do with the space game they promised, I guess the first landable planet will be Yela, a moon so small that it shouldn't even have gravity but yes it will have their standard 1G just like any station they created, I don't see SC going beyond this type of big levels, don't get me wrong, Cryengine 3 is an awesome game engine but still it has its limits, I don't think it will ever allow CIG to really create huge procedurally generated planets, I think they are crafting everything, that's also why they take ages to do anything, they don't have the technological level to create a procedurally generated universe, I read somewhere SC will have something like 100 systems but if the systems are just tiny levels as the one they released they will fail to deliver the space game they promised , the space game of my dreams is set in space not on tiny levels like in SC where you can only land on tiny planets that are not supposed to even be classified as moons LOL
It makes me think why exactly there is such a limitation, if the 64-bit positioning precision was implemented (and I really don't have a reason to believe it wasn't).
The fact that he originally chose that 32-bit engine always makes me wonder what Chris Roberts had in mind when he first asked for money for his Best Damned Space Game Ever.
From the sounds of things, his intention was to just clag together something that was a tribute to Wing Commander, sail 'round and 'round the moon 'til everyone gets dizzy. Then head for home.
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That really doesn't cover a very large area compared to space. The calculations have been done elsewhere but it's what's forced it's miniature sized planets so they fit within one 'block' - it's all in the thread somewhere but gets quite technical as to how you overcome it.
Engines handle objects and space very differently depending on what they've been designed to do. The problem appears simple to a non-programmer but when approached in the simple brute-force method it takes so long you'd never get the lovely frame rates we like so clever shortcuts are used to cut corners and how that's done determines what the engine can and cannot do in a fairly terminal fashion. I don't know enough about CryEngine to say more but the fact that it was built for FPS maps is quite likely to render it mostly useless in space, that's not just a fantasy from some folk. Can't rely on a global fog/draw distance to save you from even having to consider objects further away, can't rely on a global 'up' etc and that's simple trips just off the top of my head in morning mode.
The MVP will be just Stanton's system alone I reckon - he's already talked up how much there'll be to do in just that one system a bunch of times now.
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