The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Ian Skippy]

About this, i think both are confused. I said "bad made up propaganda" I mean, bad propaganda which is made up.
Maybe i should have written a comma there so it read "bad, made up propaganda". Sorry for the confusion guys. My fault.

I agree, this is bad propaganda, which is made up:

 

[Jezzah]

I don't see anyone discussing about SC here. I just see the same 4-5 people trying to spread bad made up propaganda about a game developer rather than discuss about an upcoming video game.

Because there's virtually nothing to talk about game wise. A busted tired old hangar module, an equally busted slightly more pretty arena Commander that's barely changed since release...oh the baby PU thing that is utterly broken not very pretty and a very small amount of any content at all.

All this after 4 years down the road, many studios of people, one despotic deluded CEO and 123million dolla from the Internet church of fidelitous Idris.

 

[Hi-Ban]

I agree, this is bad propaganda, which is made up:
http://media1.gameinformer.com/file.../cloudimperium/starcitizen/misc/slide1.21.jpg

I see your bait, but i wont bite it.
The game development is going forward. Yes, i know some people are not used to waiting, but most people agree that if you do something, it's better to do it well than rushing it to meet a deadline.
Fortunately, SC has no publisher enforcing a deadline, and that's good news for a project with the scope of SC.

Back on topic, what do you guys think about the current lineup of fighter ships? I think we have already plenty of airplane-shaped fighters. Of course i know they have been focusing on creating the content for Sq42, and that implies having airplane-shaped fighter ships, which have been introduced on the PU so we can test them. But i'm missing some non-airplane fighters, some more variety. What do you think?

 

[Tippis]

Fortunately, SC has no publisher enforcing a deadline, and that's good news for a project with the scope of SC.

How is it good news that they have no incentive to be efficient, or inventive, or even to deliver anything at all?

 

[AJW]

I see your bait, but i wont bite it.
The game development is going forward. Yes, i know some people are not used to waiting, but most people agree that if you do something, it's better to do it well than rushing it to meet a deadline.
Fortunately, SC has no publisher enforcing a deadline, and that's good news for a project with the scope of SC.

Back on topic, what do you guys think about the current lineup of fighter ships? I think we have already plenty of airplane-shaped fighters. Of course i know they have been focusing on creating the content for Sq42, and that implies having airplane-shaped fighter ships, which have been introduced on the PU so we can test them. But i'm missing some non-airplane fighters, some more variety. What do you think?

I think that until CIG shows some evidence of actually being able to deliver a product, rather than an endless series of promises, the 'current lineup' is an irrelevance.

 

[killminster]

Fortunately, SC has no publisher enforcing a deadline, and that's good news for a project with the scope of SC.

No, I think this might even be the root of the problem, no accountability, no one trimming off the fat, no one there to say "No Chris that wont work".

 

[Hi-Ban]

I think that until CIG shows some evidence of actually being able to deliver a product, rather than an endless series of promises, the 'current lineup' is an irrelevance.

Precisely, until they deliver the final product, any kind of accusation of "smoke and mirrors" is irrelevant and unfounded.
Until then, we can discuss what we got by now, we can discuss about upcoming features, or else we can go to other threads to discuss different matters. Everything else is off topic.

 

[JohnMice]

JohnMice - or whoever you are - HERE is how it works: http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/

It's been posted before in this thread, but the faithful constantly ignore it despite its 100% accuracy.

You, you and Orlando and the other faithful are not how it works.

That is a problem for individuals like you, and Orlando, and the others who are absolutely beyond delusional - you ignore facts, you ignore reality. Just like CR.

So CR has Wing Commander. Okay. He failed with Freelancer. There were also WAY better space games like Descent, Descent : Freespace, Freespace 2... and they owe as much to Wing Commander as Microsoft Flight Simulator owes no one anything. There was Elite in 1984. There was Wing Commander in the '90s. There were air combat games in the '70s, so every single air combat game after owes them something? If so, then CR and Wing Commander owe everything to ASTEROIDS.

Just to make it absolutely clear - CR has done nothing innovative. He's done nothing revolutionary. He even had to use an off-the-shelf engine to fail at making "his vision" because the engine couldn't do it, and then he had to frankenmod it to make it maybe do it - still can not be verified by backers because it is some version that no one has access to. He's a hack, and I really wish I had seen that front and center when I originally backed/bought that CryEngine was what he was basing his dream on. I would have laughed my fidelity off.

I am glad I put money into another great space game though. I initially didn't play it much. Just occasionally. It was okay. then after a year and a half it was pretty in-depth and fun, and I have been playing it constantly since It was only a year and a half of further development, but it advance tremendously. So obviously I am not concerned about the game being built and done soon/quickly... I will wait. But, CR has mismanaged consistently, and he's using an off-the-shelf-engine that is questionable aside from the First Person Shooter side and the pretty graphics... but... yeah... it hasn't advanced at all. Unless you want to count the nonsense hangar module and the mini-PeeYew - which by the way was supposed to be done last year but in a full PeeYew. It's comical, truly is.

You seem to be completely clueless as why Wing Commander series were such a big hit at the time and went on to be one of the very first big PC Game franchises (even being ported to more than half-dozen platforms at the time) and why it single-handily elevated Chris Roberts to is legendary cult status. No wonder you cant grasp the greatness of Star Citizen a game that literally is shaping the future of gaming when you can't even understand the old-school Wing Commander legacy. From the multi-branching story-line to the AI interaction a lot of things from Wing Commander inspired most of the present gaming cinematic campaigns.

I recommed this bit of reading: http://www.denofgeek.com/games/wing-commander/27753/looking-back-at-the-wing-commander-games

Well, Cyengine has been in use for a few mmos now, the most similar one to SC is Entropia Universe but they ended up to create a set of huge levels, space is just a huge level you use to access planets just like in SC, I found yesterday the space level in SC has borders beyond which you blow up, I kept blowing up for no reason and then I found out I was hitting the border LOL, it's not even that huge, it's a gas giant with a moon, a system in miniature that doesn't have anything to do with the space game they promised, I guess the first landable planet will be Yela, a moon so small that it shouldn't even have gravity but yes it will have their standard 1G just like any station they created, I don't see SC going beyond this type of big levels, don't get me wrong, Cryengine 3 is an awesome game engine but still it has its limits, I don't think it will ever allow CIG to really create huge procedurally generated planets, I think they are crafting everything, that's also why they take ages to do anything, they don't have the technological level to create a procedurally generated universe, I read somewhere SC will have something like 100 systems but if the systems are just tiny levels as the one they released they will fail to deliver the space game they promised , the space game of my dreams is set in space not on tiny levels like in SC where you can only land on tiny planets that are not supposed to even be classified as moons LOL

Star Citizen universer (Crusader) now has borders because they want players confined to the area with gameplay. Just that, they changed their engine from the inside out to allow them for seamless transitions between huge distances (compare Star Citizen Quantum Drive travelling with ED SC for instance, Star Citizen looks and plays way better).

They already have PG planets created, they don't need them to be scientifically accurate nor they want them to be. It's all about the gameplay experience, minimizing superfluous boring moments. And it's not about the size of the system and the number of the planets, but what you can do in each area. Skyrim or Witcher both have their gameplay in a very small area if you compare it with space measures, despite that they have great story and engaging gameplay.

Just because we said weeks, not months we did not literally mean weeks, not months.
Just because we said Squadron 42 for 2016 we did not literally mean Squadron 42 for 2016.
Just because we said 100 star systems we did not literally mean 100 star systems.
Just because....

Road-maps are road maps not promises, Game development is not set in stone after you write the road-map, it's messy and things change, that's why you have to adapt, that's why it's fluid. You don't need to go far to find other game dev's being caught up in their words, ED for instance had a road-map that included a offline mode, ditched at the last minute because something that they it was feasible turned out it wasn't, same with the planning of a $100,000 CQC Arena Tournament that seamed feasible at the time of the announcement and then things change...

It's Game Development 101, Things are allways changing, if you have a game developing/ business model that involves constant communication you are bound to have more public set-backs than if you do it behind the scenes like "normal" game development does.

People must understand game developers are just humans beings that happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold them up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead... but don't be surprised if they don't uphold them.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Precisely, until they deliver the final product, any kind of accusation of "smoke and mirrors" is irrelevant and unfounded.
Until then, we can discuss what we got by now, we can discuss about upcoming features, or else we can go to other threads to discuss different matters. Everything else is off topic.

Stop trying to direct the flow of the discussion.

Critique of the project, as well as anything positive about it (which isn't much) is ON topic in a thread dealing with Star Citizen.

What you are suggesting is little more than censorship.

 

[Sydivision77]

Fortunately, you do not get to dictate the direction the discussions take on this thread.

 

[Neo-ST]

Precisely, until they deliver the final product, any kind of accusation of "smoke and mirrors" is irrelevant and unfounded.
Until then, we can discuss what we got by now, we can discuss about upcoming features, or else we can go to other threads to discuss different matters. Everything else is off topic.

If you charge money+VAT for something and you give a receipt, then you are selling a product, and thus you're eligible for reviews.

 

[Tippis]

You seem to be completely clueless as why Wing Commander series were such a big hit at the time and went on to be one of the very first big PC Game franchises (even being ported to more than half-dozen platforms at the time) and why it single-handily elevated Chris Roberts to is legendary cult status.

But it was none of those things. The first Wing Commander was such a commercial failure that it almost brought down all of Origin, and the likes of Sierra, Lucasart, and hell, even Microsoft, had already created multiple franchises by that point. Even Origin had done so previously, with Chris being nowhere near them. But more than that, in the end, Chris didn't have all that much to do with the WC franchise — he wasn't even involved in half of them.

No wonder you cant grasp the greatness of Star Citizen a game that literally is shaping the future of gaming when you can't even understand the old-school Wing Commander legacy.

But that's just it: the ones who think that SC is in any way shaping the future of gaming are the ones who have a very confused understanding of the Wing Commander legacy. Stuff like branching storylines and AI interactions were old hat by the time Chris started making his games — he just mixed a light version of that with Cinemaware-style visuals.

There is literally nothing that SC does that hasn't been done before, same as was the case with all Chris' previous games.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

You seem to be completely clueless as why Wing Commander series were such a big hit at the time and went on to be one of the very first big PC Game franchises (even being ported to more than half-dozen platforms at the time) and why it single-handily elevated Chris Roberts to is legendary cult status. No wonder you cant grasp the greatness of Star Citizen a game that literally is shaping the future of gaming when you can't even understand the old-school Wing Commander legacy. From the multi-branching story-line to the AI interaction a lot of things from Wing Commander inspired most of the present gaming cinematic campaigns.

I recommed this bit of reading: http://www.denofgeek.com/games/wing-commander/27753/looking-back-at-the-wing-commander-games



Star Citizen universer (Crusader) now has borders because they want players confined to the area with gameplay. Just that, they changed their engine from the inside out to allow them for seamless transitions between huge distances (compare Star Citizen Quantum Drive travelling with ED SC for instance, Star Citizen looks and plays way better).

They already have PG planets created, they don't need them to be scientifically accurate nor they want them to be. It's all about the gameplay experience, minimizing superfluous boring moments. And it's not about the size of the system and the number of the planets, but what you can do in each area. Skyrim or Witcher both have their gameplay in a very small area if you compare it with space measures, despite that they have great story and engaging gameplay.





Road-maps are road maps not promises, Game development is not set in stone after you write the road-map, it's messy and things change, that's why you have to adapt, that's why it's fluid. You don't need to go far to find other game dev's being caught up in their words, ED for instance had a road-map that included a offline mode, ditched at the last minute because something that they it was feasible turned out it wasn't, same with the planning of a $100,000 CQC Arena Tournament that seamed feasible at the time of the announcement and then things change...

It's Game Development 101, Things are allways changing, if you have a game developing/ business model that involves constant communication you are bound to have more public set-backs than if you do it behind the scenes like "normal" game development does.

People must understand game developers are just humans beings that happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold them up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead... but don't be surprised if they don't uphold them.

So, have you finished drying your eyes after that unrelenting diatribe?

You are a very disingenuous commenter, who likes to twist established facts about Star Citizen and turn it into a positive, or better yet, flat out dismiss honest, well researched reportage of what is going on with Star Citizen, and then provide a load of horseapples as your own "evidence".

You are also making up a great deal of what you THINK Star Citizen will be like, even though from what we have been presented with so far in a "playable" form should be giving any one with a lick of sense some serious doubts about how *anything* CIG and Chris Roberts claims will come to the game could be achieved.

You always compare the "what ifs" of Star Citizen with games that have achieved much in recent computer gaming history, yet when the obvious parallels are made to far less successful titles, ones that were delayed for many years like SC currently is, you are very quick to ignore such comparisons as "hyperbole". In that case, doesn't that make your *own* assessment of just how *good* SC will be, of how it will match up with the very best on the scene, equally hyperbolic?

 

[AJW]

Precisely, until they deliver the final product, any kind of accusation of "smoke and mirrors" is irrelevant and unfounded.
Until then, we can discuss what we got by now, we can discuss about upcoming features, or else we can go to other threads to discuss different matters. Everything else is off topic.

Logic clearly isn't your strongpoint. A failure to deliver something isn't a reason not to discuss the failure to deliver.

 

[Hi-Ban]

Stop trying to direct the flow of the discussion.

Critique of the project, as well as anything positive about it (which isn't much) is ON topic in a thread dealing with Star Citizen.

What you are suggesting is little more than censorship.

Fortunately, you do not get to dictate the direction the discussions take on this thread.

Wow, looks like i hit a nerve there...

I guess this means that you admit that people here doesn't really want to discuss about the game itself?

I don't really get your stance, guys. SC is not the enemy of ED. You don't need to spread "smoke and mirrors" kind of rumors to help whatever cause you think you are helping with this behaviour.
ED and SC are different games, each one with different scopes. ED has a larger scope on some aspects, SC has a larger scope on other aspects. They are not enemies.
Hell, even CR promoted the kickstarter campaign of ED on the RSI website. Who cares about which game is gonna be awarded with the "future of gaming" title? The more space games, the better for us gamers. Plain simple.

 

[McGlashan]

The majority of gamers wouldn't care about Star Citizen even if somehow it was released in a form that delivered on all the promises. It's not going to suddenly convert everyone to being space combat fans any more than Elite has done. Because that's all it is, a space combat game. It will make no difference to the future of gaming, other than to make gamers more wary of crowdfunding (which has already happened).

I do agree that Roberts has "cult" status, though.

 

[AJW]

Wow, looks like i hit a nerve there...

I guess this means that you admit that people here doesn't really want to discuss about the game itself?

I don't really get your stance, guys. SC is not the enemy of ED. You don't need to spread "smoke and mirrors" kind of rumors to help whatever cause you think you are helping with this behaviour.
ED and SC are different games, each one with different scopes. ED has a larger scope on some aspects, SC has a larger scope on other aspects. They are not enemies.
Hell, even CR promoted the kickstarter campaign of ED on the RSI website. Who cares about which game is gonna be awarded with the "future of gaming" title? The more space games, the better for us gamers. Plain simple.

If and when 'the game itself' is delivered, we can discuss it. And no, making promises you can't deliver isn't better for gamers.

 

[Tippis]

I guess this means that you admit that people here doesn't really want to discuss about the game itself?

No. It means people want to discuss the game, but that includes the voluminous criticism that can be raised against it, its development process, and its developer.

You're effectively suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to because it's not out yet. By that token, no favourable word can be uttered against the game either. So what would that leave us to discuss?

 

[Dementropy]

Apart from live multicrew (and remember, SC is not an MMO, as per Roberts' own words), I experience more star systems, alien interactions, ship modification, story (as in, a reason for being there) in the Starflight series. Even with EGA fidelity (or CGA, if you didn't have enough turquoise or magenta in your life), it's more compelling, took a smaller team (and budget), and there were far fewer shenanigans behind the scenes.

Basically, for CR to get me to open my wallet, he has to show me something that exceeds the standards set by a game from 1986, and I'm not really seeing that, regardless of mocap, ship sales, or space malls.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Wow, looks like i hit a nerve there...

I guess this means that you admit that people here doesn't really want to discuss about the game itself?

I don't really get your stance, guys. SC is not the enemy of ED. You don't need to spread "smoke and mirrors" kind of rumors to help whatever cause you think you are helping with this behaviour.
ED and SC are different games, each one with different scopes. ED has a larger scope on some aspects, SC has a larger scope on other aspects. They are not enemies.
Hell, even CR promoted the kickstarter campaign of ED on the RSI website. Who cares about which game is gonna be awarded with the "future of gaming" title? The more space games, the better for us gamers. Plain simple.

No nerves were hit Ban. Just pointing out that your attempts at thread direction are not appreciated.

Also, feel free to expose these "smoke and mirrors" rumors that you are so worried about.

We're more than happy to discuss the game. Are you?

Also, one last thing.... Neither me, nor Sydivision, made mention of ED once in our comments. Why are you trying to suggest that we did?

Are you suggesting that the only way to be at all critical or "negative" about Star Citizen's development is due to being a fan of Elite Dangerous?