2.2 Building the Neutron Highway Grid

[goemon]

!


My fear is the whole idea was designed with "bubble traffic" in mind - where there's a high proportion of NS and WD dotted around it - so 25% makes sense there. Maybe they forgot that explorers would love to have this feature be useful too?

@erimus, you are more knowledgeable than me in this, but i have suggested in the beta thread, that

a) white dwarfs give that 25℅ boost, because there are plenty in the bubble

and

b) neutron stars should give a significant boost (i personally would like to see *5- *10), because there is only 1 neutron star in the bubble - as far as i know.

is this correct? or are there many neutron stars in the bubble i don't know about?

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

@erimus, you are more knowledgeable than me in this, but i have suggested in the beta thread, that

a) white dwarfs give that 25℅ boost, because there are plenty in the bubble

and

b) neutron stars should give a significant boost (i personally would like to see *5- *10), because there is only 1 neutron star in the bubble - as far as i know.

is this correct? or are there many neutron stars in the bubble i don't know about?

I like your idea as it adds variety.

I'm not sure of the numbers but I think you're correct in saying the bubble has more WDs than Neutrons. This could be a way to keep the bubble from being made to feel even smaller by overly large NS jumps.


One other way could be to make the maximum jump depend on the period of the NS, or relate it to mass, and make all the ones in the bubble the ones that only produce enough energy for 25% jumps. This idea would also make pinpointing the best Neutron's for max range jumps out in the wider galaxy a new bit of content for explorers to get involved in.

Making neutron stars all the same, giving the same effects, is a bit lame. Add some variety and link the maximum jump attainable directly proportional to the individual characteristics of each particular neutron star.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

I like your idea as it adds variety.

I'm not sure of the numbers but I think you're correct in saying the bubble has more WDs than Neutrons. This could be a way to keep the bubble from being made to feel even smaller by overly large NS jumps.


One other way could be to make the maximum jump depend on the period of the NS, or relate it to mass, and make all the ones in the bubble the ones that only produce enough energy for 25% jumps. This idea would also make pinpointing the best Neutron's for max range jumps out in the wider galaxy a new bit of content for explorers to get involved in.

Making neutron stars all the same, giving the same effects, is a bit lame. Add some variety and link the maximum jump attainable directly proportional to the individual characteristics of each particular neutron star.

When I asked the question how much of a boost we might get for one of the Gamescom livestreams, the answer suggested that it would be enough to be useful. 25% boost is going to be of limited use, even in the bubble - it will not be worth deviating from your route for such a small range bonus. I don't think I would ever bother with it whilst exploring.
.
I agree completely with Erimus that the boost gained should be dependent upon the properties of the individual neutron star or white dwarf (especially mass and rotational period; I doubt if magnetic field strength is calculated as the calculations might be a bit problematic). These would then need to be calibrated to give useful jumps whilst in the bubble for WDs (typically 100% boost I would imagine), to useful but challenging outside the bubble for neutron stars: the higher the reward the higher the risk (perhaps allowing jumps of 300-400LY in unusual cases and 200LY for more 'average' neutron stars). If the boost is only as much as a grade 1 FSD injection and the same for everything, then I don't see that the mechanic will add much benefit to exploration.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Thumbs down to FD for the 25% (if it sticks) but, man, this community always impresses me with its dedication to the game. Awesome work gents.

 

[Ar'Vessah]

This is the second group (15-30) of Neutron Stars between Colonia and Hyponia:

EORGH PROU FS-K D8-258	1941.39 ly
EORGH PROU OD-T E3-49	2049.22 ly
LEAMAE TS-K D8-168	2159.56 ly
LEAMAE VY-I D9-35	2281.74 ly
LEAMAE UY-I D9-113	2383.95 ly
LEAMAE XE-H D10-232	2486.34 ly
LEAMAE VE-H D10-419	2595.60 ly
LEAMAE UE-H D10-152	2708.49 ly
LEAMAE XK-F D11-171	2825.97 ly
LEAMAE VK-F D11-215	2953.36 ly
LEAMAE YQ-D D12-73	3070.81 ly
LEAMAE WQ-D D12-56	3183.16 ly
LEAMAE ZW-B D13-59	3290.48 ly
LEAMAE YW-B D13-24	3396.53 ly
LEAMEIA RD-A D14-162	3509.60 ly
LEAMEIA PD-A D14-27	3649.63 ly

Colonia to the Bubble

CLOOKU XV-T D4-777	8430.69 ly
CLOOKU QJ-X D2-61	8593.75 ly
CLOOKU JX-A D1-277	8761.91 ly
CLOOKU FR-C D851	8886.80 ly
PRUA PHOE OF-C D14-1868	8998.41 ly
PRUA PHOE DN-H D11-1397	9191.50 ly
PRUA PHOE YV-K D9-96	9391.46 ly
PRUA PHOE RJ-O D7-535	9570.87 ly
PRUA PHOE MI-Q D6-378	9722.69 ly
PRUA PHOE BV-X E1-184	9894.72 ly
PRUA PHOE YJ-X D2-494	10024.06 ly
PREIA PHOE AC-B D1-6111	10231.00 ly
PREIA PHOE YQ-C D140	10317.46 ly
SKAUDE GK-C D14-59	10473.13 ly
SKAUDE YX-F D12-277	10628.84 ly
ELLAIDST SJ-I D9-109	10933.63 ly
ELLAIDST LX-L D7-380	11103.06 ly
ELLAIDST EL-P D5-469	11229.75 ly

 

[Nari Picaro]

I will take on this challenge, almost back to the bubble and I will rig out a long range explor-a-conda and go hunting. Will post finds on this Forum entry, and will cross reference later and remove duplicates when I find them.

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Rukbat, Neutron star in the bubble, 93ly from Sol. Though the neutron star isn't the primary. But it is in the direction of Jaques.

Rukbat? As in where Pern is Anne McCaffrey would be so proud, that we can meet the Drgaonriders.

 

[Andrew Gaspurr]

I have seen a few videos now with the gravitational side effects of supercharging, including ships getting their canopys breached and CMDRs going into full Darth Vader mode. I am somewhat sceptical CMDRs out on exploration some fifty Kaylies beyond the bubble would use this rather dangerous method of travel just for a +25% boost. Wit thousands of jumps and honks behind, you just don't want to loose your exploration data for getting an 35LY Asp to 42LY for only one sole jump. Makes no sense to me as risk vs. reward is a bit out of sync here.

300%+ Bonus? Well, different story. It would make remote stellar remnants with a NS accessible for example or it would enable you to go even higher or lower from the galactic plane to hunt for "that one" out of the way thing. Risk vs. reward is okay here I guess.

 

[Aura Lorell]

I have seen a few videos now with the gravitational side effects of supercharging, including ships getting their canopys breached and CMDRs going into full Darth Vader mode. I am somewhat sceptical CMDRs out on exploration some fifty Kaylies beyond the bubble would use this rather dangerous method of travel just for a +25% boost. Wit thousands of jumps and honks behind, you just don't want to loose your exploration data for getting an 35LY Asp to 42LY for only one sole jump. Makes no sense to me as risk vs. reward is a bit out of sync here.

300%+ Bonus? Well, different story. It would make remote stellar remnants with a NS accessible for example or it would enable you to go even higher or lower from the galactic plane to hunt for "that one" out of the way thing. Risk vs. reward is okay here I guess.

The problem here for me is that long time exploration is not compatible with insta-death over one mistake. I could understand damage but guaranteed dying when dropping out of SC is too harsh in my book and will essentially make the feature unusable for all long term expeditions (for me at least). I can live with damage, but not this chance. Additionally the concept of making the neutron highway a feature accessible to people who would otherwise would not travel to Jaques is a direct contradiction with the risk of death on the very first mistake. This kind of risk makes the feature available only to the people who want glory and set records (i.e. "end-game" gimmick for a few select, something that contradict the quality-of-life concept of the feature).

Please also note that reaching remote and otherwise inaccessible parts of the galaxy is pointless when using neutron stars unless there is another neutron star over there that will provide a way back. Otherwise you'd become stranded in that remote place. Now I must admit that on some occasions I wouldn't mind going there even if stranded, just for the sights but that is an exception to the rule and potentially not a popular view by many.

 

[Aura Lorell]

FYI:

Sandro confirming that the range will be increased to 100%:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...D-boost-info?p=4543170&viewfull=1#post4543170

Sandro confirming that they do not intend to make this feature the de-facto way of travelling:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...D-boost-info?p=4543232&viewfull=1#post4543232

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

FYI:

Sandro confirming that the range will be increased to 100%:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...D-boost-info?p=4543170&viewfull=1#post4543170

Sandro confirming that they do not intend to make this feature the de-facto way of travelling:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...D-boost-info?p=4543232&viewfull=1#post4543232

Unless they change their minds, this is going to become another forgotten mechanic. Another shadow of what it could have lead to. It does nothing to foster emergent gameplay like the neutron highways etc.

I really can't understand why some of these great concepts are so watered down by the decision makers that they effectively become a waste of dev programming time upon their release.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I have seen a few videos now with the gravitational side effects of supercharging, including ships getting their canopys breached and CMDRs going into full Darth Vader mode. I am somewhat sceptical CMDRs out on exploration some fifty Kaylies beyond the bubble would use this rather dangerous method of travel just for a +25% boost. Wit thousands of jumps and honks behind, you just don't want to loose your exploration data for getting an 35LY Asp to 42LY for only one sole jump. Makes no sense to me as risk vs. reward is a bit out of sync here.

300%+ Bonus? Well, different story. It would make remote stellar remnants with a NS accessible for example or it would enable you to go even higher or lower from the galactic plane to hunt for "that one" out of the way thing. Risk vs. reward is okay here I guess.

Using it to reach otherwise inaccessible places is only worth it if you have a way to get back. Anything over premium jumponium 100% could be problematic. I see this mechanic as largely useless for opening up really far away places

 

[Andrew Gaspurr]

Using it to reach otherwise inaccessible places is only worth it if you have a way to get back. Anything over premium jumponium 100% could be problematic. I see this mechanic as largely useless for opening up really far away places

Yes, and also yes to Rhea Lovell, who in essence said the same thing.

What I mainly have in mind is the layer of netron stars and white dwarfs that lies below and above nearly every denser spiral arm at appr. +-1,000ly. There are some celestials that are just a bit out of reach there, say, 90-110ly. With premium Jumponium being somewhat awkward to obtain there, a 300% supercharge would have made sense to me. Of course, you always need an option to continue at your destination lest you be stranded with great views but not a gallon of omph.

And yes, FD unfailingly failed this (again). And yes, I know it's Beta.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Yes, and also yes to Rhea Lovell, who in essence said the same thing.

What I mainly have in mind is the layer of netron stars and white dwarfs that lies below and above nearly every denser spiral arm at appr. +-1,000ly. There are some celestials that are just a bit out of reach there, say, 90-110ly. With premium Jumponium being somewhat awkward to obtain there, a 300% supercharge would have made sense to me. Of course, you always need an option to continue at your destination lest you be stranded with great views but not a gallon of omph.

And yes, FD unfailingly failed this (again). And yes, I know it's Beta.

Just make sure you bring enough with I am currently in the bubble waiting for 2.2 to drop before I head out on a long journey...I currently have about 52 premium jumps collected along with a bunch of standard and basic. My plan is 100 premiums before I head out.

 

[Mengy]

Unless they change their minds, this is going to become another forgotten mechanic. Another shadow of what it could have lead to. It does nothing to foster emergent gameplay like the neutron highways etc.

I really can't understand why some of these great concepts are so watered down by the decision makers that they effectively become a waste of dev programming time upon their release.

I get the feeling that Frontier is just far too afraid to change deep space travel in any meaningful way. I don’t know why that is, probably because no one on the team bothers to do it. This new mechanic has incredible potential to really improve the deep space game both in gameplay and in community participation, yet they seem unwilling to do it. There are no negatives really, just positives, so I also can’t understand their hesitation.

I’m still hoping we can convince them to see the light. I have to believe that the design team can see the huge benefits that we are all seeing.

 

[Macros Black]

Fingers crossed for this feature to eventually be of any use to regular non-defacto travel.

 

[Michael Brookes]

Quite right. Commanders want recognition in game: I'd like to see a weekly update of these Commanders when I dock. Adds to the 'life' of the ED Universe which is our universe.
Perhaps Drew Wagar may use their names too in the new novel.

Make sure to submit a GalNet report for anything of significance

Michael

 

[Michael Brookes]

Unless they change their minds, this is going to become another forgotten mechanic. Another shadow of what it could have lead to. It does nothing to foster emergent gameplay like the neutron highways etc.

I really can't understand why some of these great concepts are so watered down by the decision makers that they effectively become a waste of dev programming time upon their release.

We've not reached the final number yet - there are competing discussions internally about this. Player projects like this one are positive ammunition to use in the discussion

Michael

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

We've not reached the final number yet - there are competing discussions internally about this. Player projects like this one are positive ammunition to use in the discussion

Michael

Micheal,

Please no teleports. You have already made exploration a bit of joke with removal of anything challenging of finding actual jump path between stars. Anything more will make ED exploration a joke. No NS highways.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

We've not reached the final number yet - there are competing discussions internally about this. Player projects like this one are positive ammunition to use in the discussion

Michael

That's great to hear Michael, and great to know things like this initiative are on the radar when you're discussing these issues internally


This mechanic has massive potential to be fun, risky, and rewarding, as well as facilitate community emergent gameplay. And I noticed Sandro has just acknowledged the idea to make neutron boosts be dependent on the actual characteristics of each neutron itself! Understandably no guarantees, but at least there's hope now

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Micheal,

Please no teleports. You have already made exploration a bit of joke with removal of anything challenging of finding actual jump path between stars. Anything more will make ED exploration a joke. No NS highways.

The challenge would come in the risk. I don't see an issue with players taking big risks to gain big rewards. I agree though, up to until now we've had too many rewards (jumpionium, engineered FSDs) with zero risk. This one could actually make traveling rewarding AND dangerous if you utilized it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That's great to hear Michael, and great to know things like this initiate are on the radar when you're discussing these issues internally


This mechanic has massive potential to be fun, risky, and rewarding, as well as facilitate community emergent gameplay. And I noticed Sandro has just acknowledged the idea to make neutron boosts be dependent on the actual characteristics of each neutron itself! Understandably no guarantees, but at least there's hope now

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The challenge would come in the risk. I don't see an issue with players taking big risks to gain big rewards. I agree though, up to until now we've had too many rewards (jumpionium, engineered FSDs) with zero risk. This one could actually make traveling rewarding AND dangerous if you utilized it.

That's why risk vs. reward should be major point here, not utilizing NS highways

I have no issue with 100% - 300% boost, anything bigger raises question about purpose. Seems lot of people expect it to be teleport. Not gonna happen.